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MG MGA - Washer pump and exhaust manifold wanted

Looking for an original exhaust manifold (mine cracked) and also washer pump.

J


J Graham

I believe that the exhaust manifold has now been re-manufactured to the original specifications - should be available from the usual suppliers.
Cam Cunningham

I have a good used exhaust manifold spare. Click on my email address above for inquiry.
Barney Gaylord

I've had success in the past having a cracked manifold repaired, but you need to find someone who can weld cast iron.
G Goeppner

You can buy an excellent repro from Moss for the manifold, and the washer ump is also available too.
dominic clancy

Thanks for replies.

Washer pump from moss seems to be missing the white ring on the knob. Can anyone confirm?

I thought it was virtually impossible to weld iron? Did the repair hold up for long?
J Graham

I recently had to weld an MGA cast iron door hinge after it cracked as i was 'adjusting' it. You will need tons and tons of heat to get the entire thing hot overall, then weld the crack and very, very, very slowly let the item cool down by burying it in sand for ages. My hinge repair worked with two blowtorches worked on it, then an oxyacetelene weld but this is much smaller than a manifold.
C Manley

Interesting. I know a very good welder but the manifold is actually separated into two pieces so I think it may have had it. Hoping to take Barney up on his spare!
J Graham

See photo


J Graham

I have often successfully welded cast iron using a special electrode and lots of heat. BUT I would not attempt to repair that manifold! IMHO it is beyond it.

Have you thought of fitting steel fabricated headers? A good alternative and performance benefits as well.

The photo at top looks interesting -- how about a few lines and more photo's of the coupe. What is it doing on a flat-top?

Barry
Barry Gannon

This is the currently available pump knob. you can buy the whole assembly, but it's not a particularly good repro.


dominic clancy

Do you have the exhaust pipe support brackets fitted?
Items 22 and 23 in the attached image.
Not having these is the most common cause of a manifold fracture like yours.

Mick


M F Anderson

Barry, thanks for your honest opinion, which I happen to agree with. I have thought about the steel headers but I would like to keep the appearance original. Despite that comment I am having the engine rebuilt to fast road spec by Chris Betson in the UK - car is in flatbed as it is off to a bodyshop for engine bay respray before the engine is fitted. I bought the coupe in May and now finally getting around to tidying it up. I will find some more pictures and upload later.

Dominic, thanks for the pic, as you say not a great repro so I think I will persevere in looking for an original!

Mick, I have no idea if those are fitted, can't recall that from when I dismantled. I will try and find the box that has the exhaust parts and check that one. I can see that one end of the bracket attaches to the exhaust, where does the other end go?

Jamie

J Graham

The setup consists of two flat metal straps of different lengths with a hole at each end of each strap.
Both straps attach to the same hole on the welded exhaust pipe bracket.
The other end of each strap goes to a different hole of the bolts securing the gearbox housing to the engine.
I will look for a photo of the arrangement.
I have attached an image of the same straps on the mga twin cam as the are shown more clearly.

Mick


M F Anderson

I find the longer strap running upward is often the wrong length, either too short to reach the correct bolt on the bell housing, or ending up with a bow in the middle doing nothing useful. I suppose this is a result of the bracket being welded to the pipe in wrong location.

The shorter horizontal strap is very useful in keeping the pipe in correct relation to the engine when the engine shakes about on the rubber mounts. Without this strap it is common to break the bottom flange of the iron manifold. I have experienced frequent breaking or short life for the short strap in original configuration. Doubling up on the short strap (using two in place of one) seems to solve that problem. Otherwise make a new one from 1/8-in (3-mm) thick steel strap, good forever.

A crack at the "Y" junction has a rather odd origin. Heat cycling of the manifold causes it to change shape slightly over time. The outer arms eventually get closer together, so the two end manifold bolt holes will no line up properly. You may find it difficult to remove or reinstall the manifold over the two end studs. This misfit will cause stress that can lead to cracking of the manifold at the "Y" junction. If you find this case, use a rat tail file to elongate the end holes in the manifold to achieve a free sliding fit on the end studs for installation. And if you have to do it again five years later, so be it. I believe later production manifolds have an addition thin web cast between the arms to inhibit such cracking. I do not know if this reduces the shrinkage problem.

This long term creep in shape of the manifold will also lead to misalignment of the exhaust ports between head and manifold. If this a concern, you can use the manifold gasket as a template to scribe around the ports in head and manifold, then grind away excess metal to match the ports for best exhaust flow.
Barney Gaylord

Thanks both, excellence advice. It would appear that this blog is invaluable!
J Graham

Hmmm. I have never had that strap fitted since I bought the car in 1996, and it was not with the car, probably since the late 60s. Mind you it had been in a field for 23 intervening years

May be I will fit one, or may be not.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Not one of the many cars I have had over many years, had those straps fitted! They seem to be the first items discarded!
I made new pieces for my concours car just to ensure it was original. Very easy to do and takes the stress off the manifold joints.

Steve that could be a "winter-lay-up" job for you! Hate to think of you under her ladyships feet in the kitchen!
Barry.
Barry Gannon

I do not think that people discard them.
They are amongst the parts left over when people finish their rebuilds.
Some people have so many parts left over that they are halfway to being able to create a second engine!!

Mick
M F Anderson

I sometimes wonder about making attachments too rigid. If there is not enough flex between components there is likely to be stress fractures somewhere in the system. I doubt whether British car engineering at that period really understood metal fatigue. It was at the same period that the British de Havilland Comets broke up in mid air with stress fractures around the square windows. Also, closer to home (for me) was the British Blackburn Buccaneer aircraft carrier borne fighter bomber. It's wings were made so solidly (no flex) that the main spars cracked. One of these aircraft famously broke up at low level during Red Flag training out of Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Maybe that is why Barney has experienced a short life expectancy of the smaller bracket - it sacrifices itself to prevent cracks occurring elsewhere
J Graham

May be. My guess is that no one has kept track of manifold failures. i.e. how many have cracked with the bracket arrangement fitted, or how many have cracked with no bracket fitted.

Touch wood, I have not had a failure and I do not have the bracket.

I am not siding on this one, I am open minded. Just raising the question.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Just done a schematic of my non-qualified thoughts. My impression is that the bracket could add additional stress to the manifold.

As I said, I am open minded on this and happy to discuss the inaccuracies portrayed by my sketch.

Steve


Steve Gyles

Interesting stuff Steve but my two-penneth is a bit different: The brackets are triangulated so the exhaust at this point is rigidly connected to the engine so any engine vibration will not stress the manifold or part of the exhaust above the bracket since in theory at least, there will be no differential movement between the two - they will just move together.
The engine vibration will be transmitted to the exhaust beyond the bracket but there is a degree of flexibility here so it can be accommodated. Without the bracket the engine vibration is transmitted to all of the exhaust system and in particular the manifold exhaust coupling.
J H Cole

John

I agree with what you are saying. What I guess I am trying to get across is that with no support there is more movement (flexing) throughout the system and the stresses are more generally absorbed. Once the exhaust pipe is more securely anchored at its top end does this then alter the stress points? The bottom of the exhaust is anchored along its length so the rotational force of the engine is now additionally felt through the attachment bracket as well as the manifold flange. Can we now be sure how these these stresses are absorbed? Stresses both at the flange and the attachment bracket may be working against each other and giving the manifold a good work out.

For starters it would be interesting for J Graham to tell us if he had the bracket fitted.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi

The distance between the manifold and the bracket is very small so it will make little difference in terms of extra flexing. I think that the manifold and fixing needs all the help it can get. Flexing caused by engine movement should be absorbed by the length of pipe between the bracket and the flexible mountings of the exhaust system. Just my 2d (2cents).

Barry
B Bridgens

Barry

That is exactly the point I was making about the Buccaneer aircraft. They made the wing so rigid that there was no flexing. The shock loadings in time caused severe cracking and the wing broke off.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Very interesting debate, like Steve suggests it would be great to collate some experience on where fractures have occurred and if brackets have been fitted in these instances. I will check my parts on Wednesday and report back on that one.

Jamie
J Graham

So far the discussion has been whether the manifold requires the protection given by the brackets.
We should think laterally.
Is it intended to be the front mount for the exhaust pipe?
The pipe really needs three supports, front, centre, and rear.
The brackets can be considered as the front exhaust pipe support,
The pipe needs a front support and the manifold can not be expected to provide it.

Mick
M F Anderson

Hi j Graham ,

Is this kind of water pump you are looking for ?
It's not a reproduction , it is an original one and it's work well .

Couple years ago I bought it to put in my car but I change my mind because I have to buy all other things like nozzles , hoses and other bits . But the most important thing was that I don't want to drill holes in the dashboard for the pump and in the cowl for the nozzles .

If you want it , just contact me off board .

This is the pictures of the pump .

Jules
MGA 1600 MKII 1962




Jules Desbiens

Second picture


Jules Desbiens

Third picture

Thank's

Jules


Jules Desbiens

Found another photo from when I originally bought the car in May


J Graham

The black knob is available with the white ring after all:

http://www.leacyclassics.com/27h9625.html
dominic clancy

Hello Graham,

If you like you could send me the manifold and I'll try to weld it for you.
The only thing are the carriage costs to be on your charge !

Giovanni
Giovanni Delicio

Just been speaking with Bob West on another matter and I mentioned this saga. He has a number of sound original MGA exhaust manifolds in stock. 75 plus vat and postage.

I also asked him about the supporting brackets. I was somewhat surprised when he echoed my thoughts that it makes the assembly too rigid. He reckons it shortens the manifold life. Apparently he never fits the brackets to his rebuilds unless specifically requested.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 07/12/2012 and 14/12/2012

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