MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGA - Windscreen Fit!!!

Hello folks!
I have a 1958 MGA Coupe and the front windscreen seems to have developed a gap between the rubber seal and the roof near the middle. (I have a picture to illustrate.)I installed the windscreen a about 3 years ago and the car has never left the garage (sadly). And as I recall there was no gap at the time.

What to I need to do to fix this problem?

The pictures include areas where the seal seems to fit fine as a comparison to the trouble area.

As a bonus I included a picture of the steering wheel I covered with walnut. I'm very proud!!!


gerard hutchinson

#2


gerard hutchinson

#3


gerard hutchinson

#4 - good fit


gerard hutchinson

#5 - my steering wheel


gerard hutchinson

Tough question. Before you get an answer to that you need to know if the glass is wrong shape or if perhaps the roof has been re-profiled in that area. Suggest remove the glass (easier said then done) an measure height of the glass in the center, and also height of the body opening in the center. Then ask other people what they may have on their cars for comparison.

If you want to re-profile the roof, then remove the glass and attach a turnbuckle top to bottom in center of the opening. Pull the opening together some, release and measure. Repeat the process, pulling progressively more each time until you pass the yield point and it takes set in a new position. Pull again, enough to move the set point down to the desired final opening distance.
Barney Gaylord

Thanks Barney!

I was afraid I would have to remove the glass!!! Is it possible to remove the glass without damaging/destroying the rubber seal?

Also, if re-profiling is necessary (which I suspect it will be) how do I attach the ends of the turnbuckle to the opening?

How do I avoid damaging the headliner?
gerard hutchinson

Gerard, from your pictures it looks as if the roof needs to come forward a bit where the gap is, not downwards.
Could it be that the whole assembly has slipped down a bit and that with a new seal it could be lifted up to cover the gap ?
If you do have to use the turnbuckle, spread the load over about 6-9", do not use a single point load or it may kink. If it needs to come forward, not down it will be easier and could be done with a soft faced mallet.
Art Pearse

Art,

It is a small area that has formed the gap and suggests to me that the roof needs to move forward as well. So, if I were to do what you suggest and use a rubber mallet, do I need to remove the windscreen? What should I do with the headliner?

Thanks for you input!
gerard hutchinson

from my limitmake but growing experience with reforming sheet metal, I would say first make a template that fits the curve on the line where the seal meets the roof, as you want it to be. That is your reference.Also mark this line on the roof with sticky labels.You will have to remove the screen. Then ideally tap gently along the lip from inside until your line matches the template. Maybe you could do it by pulling, i don't know.
The other way is to build it up using body filler.
Art Pearse

It has also been suggested to me by a trusted source that installing the Trim and joiners could solve my problem. Currently all I have installed is the rubber seal.

What are your thoughts?
gerard hutchinson

Ah, you missed that bit of information out! Try it first!
Art Pearse

Really?!

My plan is to CAREFULLY remove the windscreen and reinstall it. As I remember there was a really good fit.

What does the trim and joiners do to keep the seal in place?
gerard hutchinson

Gerard,
I have a 58 coupe and have removed and installed the windshield a couple times during the course of my restoration. Yes, it's possible to remove it without damaging the seal. The trim and joiners have no real effect on keeping the seal in place. In all the years I've owned the car I never even had them. That seal should be dead tight to the body.
Two questions:
1: Did you buy a replacement windshield and get one of the thin ones (like I did and wouldn't use)?
2: Did you buy a replacement seal and perhaps the rubber has shrunk with age? There is a lot of "crap" rubber being sold. Even the original seals, when old, get pretty hard and may shrink.

The roof, in that area, is very strong, stiff. Unless the car suffered a major accident its VERY unlikely that the profile changed or moved. Check your windshield thickness and buy a new seal before you mess with that profile. If, for some reason, you do want to change the profile, don't go pulling on it. Build it up using lead or a good quality filler.
Cheers,
Gerry
G T Foster

A lot of replacement windshield glass is not exactly the same size or curvature as the original glass was.

I discovered this when installing a W/S on a roadster and had all kinds of issues.

When an original OEM W/S (not NOS) was laid over top for comparison we discovered that the replacement was not the same curvature, thickness or dimensions.

What this meant was no matter what we did it would not fit in the frame properly.

Coupe glass may also suffer from the same problems. If the dimensions are on the small side the glass will have a tendency to want to slip into the cabin as there is no slight compression of the rubber seal between the edge of the glass and the body opening to keep it there.

If this is the case a strip of thin 1/16 sealing rubber (as used in the roll up window channels on the bottom) can be had from any good glass company and a strip the same width of the glass can be attached around the periphery. This will pack the glass so the fit is tighter and will compress as required to effectively seal as well.

If you do this go very slowly and do not force any thing, just let the assembly settle.

An old trick for assembly of this type of W/S is to use petroleum jelly as an assembly lubricant. This will allow the glass and seal to lip over edges easily and will soften the surface of the rubber seal to assist in sealing afterwards. Use a plastic coated wire (such as from and old loom) to pull the lip over the edge as string will cut and tear the edge of your rubber seal.

I have used this method for years and not experienced any damage to rubber seals in any way...in case you were wondering.

Hope it all works out for you.
Steve
S L Bryant

Gerry,
I bought the glass from a guy in Southern IL. It was still in the old coupe and had a cracking seal around it. I did not measure the thickness. How thick should this peice of glass be?

I bought the rubber from Moss Motors and it still seems quite sturdy.

Steve,
I used 1/4 inch rope as my tool to pull the rubber over the lip. I got the technique from Barney! I didn't use petroleum jelly however. How generously should it be applied and exactly where should it be applied?!

This is a task I plan to begin this weekend. Thanks so much for your advice!!
gerard hutchinson

To a great extent the flange on the body that the glazing rubber fits over fixes the position of that piece relative to the front edge of the opening. Is this all normal and consistent? Could there be a slight depression in the roof. The lead loading that someone suggested might be a good solution. The chrome trim shown in the WSM illustration is not correct.


John DeWolf

Thank you for that visual John!

As I recall I installed the headliner BEFORE installing the W/S. Is that the proper order? How does the headliner material affect the fit of the seal on that flange?
gerard hutchinson

That is the proper order. It's all in the WSM Section S.12 and S.13, although I could never get it to work with the metal trim pre-installed as they suggest. They also call for a sealing compound between the lip and the body and between the seal and glass. In your case the original flange may have been stuck down to the body with the 'Seelastik' compound.
John DeWolf

Incidently, it looks like you car isn't painted yet. You really should remove the glass for that.
John DeWolf

Hi Gerard, generally the windshield and rubber are the last items to go on the car after the body is painted and the headliner is in.

As for the Petroleum jelly just smear the thinnest film you can on all the contact surfaces that have to slide or "lip" over a flange or glass.

The illustration shown is from a Morris Minor manual.

The Minor and MGA coupe W/S installation is like that of the old VWs. Install the glass and chrome trim first then offer the assembly up to the body opening with your lip pulling rope installed. Insert the flange into the bottom part of the W/S rubber, and with someone holding the glass assembly carefully against the opening pull your rope out such that it allows the lip of the seal to pull over the remainder of the body flange. The Petroleum jelly will allow the assembly to find its own "happy fit" without the friction of the rubber preventing it from seating.

Steve
S L Bryant

PS to preveous post:
By the way, Sealstic is/was awful stuff to work with (gets on everything and eventually drys rock hard). If you can get the W/S in without a sealant I would advise this. Generally seal things only if you have leaks.

Steve
S L Bryant

I suggest that the windscreen is possibly rotated a bit, such that the top is forward while the bottom is rearward. Some drag at the lower corners being the most probable cause. Might be worth trying to get some soapy water unto the channels to see if it can be repositioned.

I've used a 3M non hardening windshield sealant on various things; it not only seals, but is a great lubricant when fitting. But VERY MESSY!

In any event, I'd set the glass up without seal to check the match between body and glass before doing anything to metal. If you have some spare pieces of seal, you can cut them into short sections to act as locaters for this check. Whatever you use, the glass needs to be positioned the same way the seal would locate it, or the check will not be valid.

FRM
FR Millmore

In fact the car was painted prior to the headliner and winshield installation. However, I put multiple scratches in the paint job during assembly. There were to many to "touch up" so I decided to prepare the car to be repainted. I've been told by a reliable source that since the base color is on the car, repainting should go smoothly.
gerard hutchinson

FRM,
I like your positioning idea and was planning to attempt something similar. I don't have extra seal material. Do you know of an inexpensive alternative?
gerard hutchinson

No, but what is important is the relative position and depth of the grooves for car & glass. So, cut some grooves in blocks of wood or plastic to match the seal profile; you only need three or four blocks, two on the bottom and one or two on top.

FRM
FR Millmore

FRM,
I like it!!
Thanks to all!!
gerard hutchinson

The WSM says to "Use a rubber mallet round the outside edge of the windshield to ensure complete seating of the assembly" I think I might have my old seal around somewhere that I could cut off a length.
John DeWolf

Gentlemen, success!!!

I removed the WS Saturday, checked opening size & shape to the bare WS and all seemed well. I replace the seal on the WS, added petroleum jelly generously, ask my brother-in-law to help me and reinstalled the WS. In less than 15 minutes the WS was in perfectly!!

I was feeling so triumphant I installed the driver's seat, the newly restored wooden steering wheel and took the car for a quick, maiden drive. WOW I have a lot of work to do!!!

1) the car goes great but doesn't like stopping!!! brakes need bleeding.
2) transmission doesn't like going into first so much!!! probably related to the brake bleeding issue.

If there is any advice on the brakes and clutch problems please let me know!

However, the car did drive, change gears, and stopped. And, it was all caught on video. Once I figure out how to get the thing off my phone I plan to post it!!!

Thanks again gents
gerard hutchinson

" transmission doesn't like going into first so much!!! probably related to the brake bleeding issue."

Possibly,..... But the MGA has no synchro into first or reverse. Shifting into first will never be like a modern car. It takes an acquired knack........It may be air trapped in the hydraulic line but unless you are used to driving MGA's, don't assume something is wrong. It could be your technique. If you are used to the MGA, then by all means, something may need tending to and disregard my comment.

Oh yeah, congratulations on the maiden drive.
Chuck Schaefer

Congratulations!

Bleeding the MC for the brake and clutch can be a real PITA - so have patience and plan to do it a number of times, esp. for the clutch.

I got speed bleeders for my brakes (replace the bleed nipples at each wheel) and that helped a lot, used in conjunction with a Mighty-vac.

I "bled" the clutch by actually forcing fluid back up through the line to the MC using a turkey-basting syringe (any cooking store) with the slave cylinder compressed tight. Worked great.

Check to make sure that your clutch slave is moving back and forth enough when you step on the clutch. If not, keep bleeding...


JIM in NH
AJ Mail

There is a trick to engaging 1st and reverse on all of the BMC gearboxes with no syncro on 1st.

Before you select 1st or reverse, put the gearbox into 2nd, 3rd or top as these gears are syncronized.... then engage 1st or reverse.

What this does is use the sycro ring on the gear you engaged to stop all the gears turning allowing you to engage 1st or reverse without "crunching".

This method works great assuming that the clutch is properly releasing the driven plate.

You will be able to develop a knack where all you have to do is touch 2nd without total engagement and then put it into first easily.

Try it..you'll like it!

Steve

PS: glad to hear you got your W/S problem resolved.
S L Bryant

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the shifting tip! It makes a lot of sense.
gerard hutchinson

This thread was discussed between 29/09/2011 and 05/10/2011

MG MGA index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGA BBS is active now.