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MG MGA - Winter Lay Up - Condensation
| After a month of a really cold soak throughout the UK, we are all of a sudden today in the middle of a warm sector depression with an unseasonable 13 degrees centigrade. Be warned all you people who lay up your cars for the winter that your car will probably be wringing wet today, especially if the garage is a bit draughty or you happen to open the garage door. I opened the door this morning to take 'Marmaduke' for a spin. 'He' almost disappeared in a fog of condensation. It took a good 10 to 15 miles to get him dried out. This sort of environment cannot be good for those cars that are shut away from late October to March. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Thanks Steve - good heads up on that. My car has a thick cloth cover but I notice that it can become a bit damp absorbing the condensation - so that needs an airing out too. |
| Cam Cunningham |
| Steve, I think this is one of the big problems in using a garage for older cars in this country that possibly is one of the worst for cold and damp conditions. In my case wifey has a washing machine installed that increases the humidity. I have often thought about a dehumidifier but its likely to be going 24hrs/day and still not winning. I don't know if there is a simple answer but I do take every opportunity in the winter to park the car in the drive to get the wind over it. A while ago in Canada I was very envious of what seemed to be a general use of heated garages - can't see this happening over here very soon. |
| J H Cole |
| The only answer for damp and condensation is air circulation, and lots of it. If you have surface condensation, open the windows, open the doors, and let the air circulate. ONLY then can the water dissipate |
| dominic clancy |
| As I noted before Dominic if I did that my car would be soaked. I think a dehumidifier would cure the problem? |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| I agree with Dominic in that air circulation will sort out any condensation problem. I keep my car in an unheated prefabricated concrete garage which is not particularly water tight as the roof leaks a little and rain tends to creep in under the door. I invested in the "Air Chamber" car storage system which is basically a tent made from heavy duty transparent vinyl or similar. This has a free standing fibreglass frame and is kept constantly ventilated by two small fans. The fans slightly inflate the tent and flow a large volume of air over the car. I keep the bonnet, boot lid and the windows open slightly and this keeps the air moving over both the inner and and outside surfaces of the car. The principle is that there is never any temperature difference between the air flowing over the car and the temperature of the bodywork and therefore no condensation can form on the car. It works a treat even in my damp garage and has even dried my car overnight after putting it away soaking wet after an epic drive through a down pour with no windscreen wipers. Not cheap but worth every penny. Colyn (treating myself to a proper brick built garage next spring ) |
| Colyn Firth |
| Purpose built, dehumidifed storage is my recommendation! ;-) |
| Neil McGurk |
| I agree with all that has been said. I was just trying to raise awareness amongst the winter 'leave and forget' brigade that they may wish to check out their trusty steads for signs of bronchitis. The weather system that passed through yesterday was unusual in that it was a very moist airmass, combined with a significant temperature jump. Normally, the temperature and moisture variations are more gradual and most of our draughty garages will cope adequately. Personally, I have always been a keep the car running advocate. That way, there are no damp electrics, sticky handbrakes, rust spots and blemishes due to prolonged storage. I once put a dust cover over the car (the old T-series). After a few weeks I found the steering wheel was 'melting' and had dripped on the seat leather. Never used a cover since. I much prefer good air circulation. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Hi Colyn Yes I agree with the physics but in reality what would happen if I opened my garage door during a day is that warm damp laden air outside the garage would creep inside and Condensate on colder metalic parts on my cars. (as it does on cold windows in the kitchen). Then during the night that same air that entered the garage during the day would cool down a few degrees and would again condensate within the garage. As you have identified I think the car and air need to be at the same temperature for the condensation to disperse. A good 24/7 air flow would do that but I can't open my garage door 24/7 so perhaps a fan and circulation would surfice or indeed a dehumidifier! which I think is the best answer to a garage. Better that an inner tent I think? |
| Bob Turbo Midget England |
| If I leave my garage door open for any length of time I think it wouldn’t be long before my tools went missing, cynic?, yes but its true. |
| Vin Rafter |
| I use an air chamber but i have the fans on a time clock for a few hours only each day, plus i have a dehumidifier set to 65% so it simply cuts in if humidity creeps above this figure - worked well for a few years. I also reshaped the air chamber from its pure rectangular shape to a slope shape over the rear end of the car so it would clear the up and over garage door and enable me to move the air chamber closer to the door to give me space at the other end of the garage. Colin |
| C Manley |
| Steve, thanks for the heads up. I'm planning to run my dehumidifier at full blast this weekend when no rain is forecast. After a day the tank contains about three litres of water! My garage is very moist now but I find that after a day of dehumidifieing(sp.?) the condensation on the cars is gone and the musty smell is gone. After The tank The problem with most (and my) dehumidifier is that they only operate above 8 degrees Centigrade so most of the last weeks it was to cold. Fortunately at the same humidity, cold air contains less water than than warm air (at least that's what I heard). |
| Willem vd Veer |
| I quite agree that ventilation is key, and heat doesn't hurt either. Here in Anchorage, winters tend to be cold and dry, and my MG is in a nice warm dry garage. I have learned about the value of ventilation, though, from the Jeep I keep in a drafty unheated garage at my cabin on the wet coast. Because it is often below freezing, I can't leave the dehumidifier going. The first winter I left the Jeep's windows open only a crack to keep the squirrels out. I was rewarded with mildewed carpets and seats in the spring. I plugged the damned squirrels' access from outside, and now I roll the windows all the way down and open the tailgate as well. Warming up the cabin itself a few times during the winter seems to help keep the mildew at bay in there. Ken |
| k v morton |
| Bob, I have found that even after prolonged torrential rainfall when the humidity must be close to 100%, the airchamber keeps the car condensation free. Recently we had so much rain that our drains began to overflow and flood my garden. I had to resort to my petrol driven water pump to prevent my house, garden and garage flooding again as it did back in 2007. My garage door was wide open for 8 hours throughout this with rain splashing onto the front and top of the airchamber but the car inside stayed absolutely condensation free. The air inside the airchamber would have been equally humid as the air outside but the airflow kept everything dry. So keeping the air moving is the key. Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| I went the de-humidifier route when I got the "A" as things in my flat roofed brick garage could literally drip with condensation. I've had the car since 1997 and have always run the de-humidifier at night on the old economy seven. This way its off in the day when the doors get opened and the car's body work is still the same as when I first got it - not perfect but the same. Just in case anybody wanted to know. Pete |
| P N Tipping |
| Well today my cars are again nice and dry but I think the next thing I buy will be a de-humidifier The benefit of which will be a constant source of distilled (pure) water that I always use in my cars radiators. Save getting it from work ;) |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| My anti-condensation run yesterday almost ended up in disaster. Smell of petrol wafted through the cockpit that, at the time, I thought was attributable to a garage I passed by. Got back after the 10 mile run, smelt the petrol again and found a flooded front carb dumping quite happily overboard. May have lost up to a gallon of precious super (98 RON) petrol! All sorted - sticking shut-off needle. The car showed no signs of a problem while driving. Just goes to show how the fuel level in the chamber is not that critical. The thing that concerned me retrospectively was the fire risk. Glad I carry a large fire extinguisher next to my right knee on the vertical panel adjacent to the door hinge. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Reminds me Steve of the day after I collected my car a couple of years ago. On the drive home I noticed that the fuel gauge was not working properly so I decided to call at the petrol station to fill up with fuel for a long shakedown drive the next morning. I had just rewired my garage with lots of fluorescent lights in preparation for lots of MGA tinkering over the winter ahead. As I opened the garage door in the morning and with my finger on the light switch I was suddenly aware of a very strong smell of petrol and the vision of all 8 fluorescent light starters sparking away on the ceiling just stopped my finger in its tracks. The fuel tank had half emptied itsself onto the floor of the garage though a leak in the tank sender unit and the floor was awash. I had only had the car for one day and it had tried to kill me already! Perhaps all us MGA owners need some rudimentary training in disarming improvised explosive devices before taking possession of their cars! Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| Steve, have you got 'standard' or Grose petrol valves in your float chambers. I can recommend the Grose type. I often had the same trouble with flooding on various SU equipped cars, but have never had it happen with Grose jets. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Lindsay I knew someone would bring up Grose jets! When I had my carbs apart a few months back to change the rubber washers between the float chambers and the carb body I asked Bob West about supplying me a couple. He said that the current ones being supplied were giving him and a number of his customers endless amount of trouble and said, that if my current valves were okay, to stick with them. Needless to say I am now watching them closely. One issue that is more important to me is that my carbs, in common with so many, has had its overflow pipes shortened by previous owners. The fuel was flowing too close to the exhaust system for comfort. Another job for me as soon as I get my blow torch out of store. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Vin,think youself lucky.If you lived in Liverpool it wouldn't just be the tools that have gone,but the door as well.Now that way you would get air circulation. |
| M Blencowe |
| Hi guys Normally lurk on the C site, but visit here for the next project – I can recommend a Carcoon – had one for 4 years, costs about 20p a day to run (two computer cooling sized fans run all the time). It’s self supporting and blows up, but quite a bit bigger than the C, size is not too important as you can bunch the end up against the garage door. The car comes out almost clearer than it went in and dust free.The Fans also have dust filters. Air is circulated all the time - you must store the car with the windows partially open Kevin  |
| K Whitehead |
| Steve, I got my Grose jets from Moss in the summer of 2006 and they they have been absolutely faultless. However, I think Barney says that some are not a lot of good. Do I remember you saying you had a fuel filter fitted? Bits of crud in the fuel do a good job of holding taper needles open, doesn't seem to happen with Grose jets. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Mentioning the distilled water from the de-humidifier... I use it for filling/topping up the cooling ststem. Any old hard water deposits will gradually disappear from the system; better heater, better cooling and seems to stay rust free too. The water also tops up the batteries, the steam iron and I'll even give the car and house windows a final rinse with it before leathering off. When I had a needle valve leaking due to muck in the fuel, I put a cheap paper in-line filter in and no probs for 12-years now - same filter too. Pete |
| P N Tipping |
| Lindsay I cannot be certain. No sign of any crud whatsoever in the bowl. I have never suffered any debris etc in the fuel system. I run a 'Fuel King' filter/regulator with my Facet pump. I took the fuel valve apart, cleaned it all up and it worked fine. Probably just one of those things that I will never be absolutely certain what caused it. I will keep an eye on it and if it happens gain, then it's a another matter. I would imagine that the gallon I lost would have contained any evidence of dirt and served as a flush through! Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve, I think I may have suffered from condensation in the fuel tank. My car hasn't moved since the back-end of November, so as we had dry, salt free roads yesterday, I took the opportunity of giving it an airing. Since the weather turned milder, it has been dripping with condensation, I think the same happened in the fuel tank. It started easily and ran perfectly for two miles, and then it started to hold back and eventually mis-fire. I turned for home, but by the time I got there it was running fine again. We resumed our 40 mile round trip and never had so much as a stutter (topical "Kings speech" comment!) from it. P.S. Didn't Colyn Firth do well. It's amazing what they do with make-up, he doesn't look anything like that when you meet him at MGA events! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Lindsay You are right. Never realised. A star in our midst! Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Put a weber on it Steve, that will not leak! :) |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| In responce to Steve: One issue that is more important to me is that my carbs, in common with so many, has had its overflow pipes shortened by previous owners. The fuel was flowing too close to the exhaust system for comfort. Another job for me as soon as I get my blow torch out of store. Steve A local hardware store carries copper tube of the proper size to repair the short drain tubes. The product is designed to be air conditioner high side line. I believe I used 1/8" ACR copper tube. The tube is soldered into the fittings. Make sure the solder does not plug the line. The copper is soft and easy to bend to the proper shape. The engine vibration could work harden the copper and make it subject to cracking over time. 2 years on my MK11 and still fine. |
| R J Brown |
| Hoping to finally get my car onto the road tomorrow, at last a dry weather forecast on my day off and some salt free roads. The car has been in the garage since the middle of November and I am hoping it will start. Its usually a bit reluctant after a long lay up. Its a bit embarrassing sharing the same name as a famous film star but I suppose he will get used to it eventually! I must admit that I have attracted a surprising amount of interest once I mention my name over the phone, but once I explain that I am 10 years older, 30+ pounds heavier and a few million pounds stirling poorer than the TV star, it kind of fades away! Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| Thanks RJ. That's the sort of thing I had in mind. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| But you are the ORIGINAL Colyn Firth, the other one is just a copy....and they spelt his name wrong! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Never realised that all that water in the tank is indeed distilled water! I'll save some next time. |
| Willem vd Veer |
| Steve you are welcome. I lied the OD of the line is not 1/8. As shown in picture it is 0.182. A coil of copper with the fuel vent fittings soldered to it. Just unsolder the fitting and take it with you to the hardware store to get a size that fits. Randy  |
| R J Brown |
| Thanks again RJ. Will be trying to source the tube this week. All my kit is still in store so will have to buy a torch also. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| RJ Wonderful the way I started off this thread with condensation and ended up with overflow pipes. It's good at the time but must make the archives interesting in search mode. Just measured my pipe; it's the same as yours. seems 3/16" is the way to go. I have just ordered a length through Ebay. By chance the supplier is a model maker supplier of steam driven beam engine kits etc. Could be the start of a new hobby! With the cost of fuel over here, I was wondering about linking the overflow pipes all the way back to the tank, or perhaps the inlet to the fuel pump. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Just to be clear, pipe is identified by inside dimension (at least the nominal dimension) and tube is identified by outside dimension. Often they are in fact the same material, but known by different specifications. I replaced my cut-off drain tubes by leaving a couple of inches at the float bowl and making a push-on coupling with a short piece of 3/16" flexible fuel line. It is easy to unplug them to remove the carburetors. |
| John DeWolf |
| Randy Job done. It only took about 30 minutes out in the freezing cold. 3/16" tubing (thanks John for identification) fitted perfectly. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
This thread was discussed between 12/01/2011 and 22/01/2011
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