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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Any Sebring conversions out there?
|Appart from the looks, is a Sebring conversion worth it? Not to worried about the end financial value of the car. My main concern is increase in traction and grip from the larger tyres and ride quality.|
Also anyone know what is the largest 15 inch wheel tyre combination used to fill Sebring arches?
Try Doug Smith at MG Motorsport as he advertises 18inch by 12inch wheels
It would be large, very large. In fact probably so large that you would experience problems with low speed turning like parking due to all the contact patch from the larger front tires, which is something I have heard form people with 215+ size tires... BUT she would run like on rails heh!!
I have just purchased and had shipped to California a full "Sebring" kit from MG Motorsports in the UK. The service from Doug was excellent. I was looking for wheels from him as well, he recommends 15x8 but he suggested I wait until having fitted the arches so that proper dimensions could be take. Before buying from Doug I researched heavily as there are lots of posts regarding badly fitting front wings on the kits. I found a common manufacturer supplied all the usual sources but Doug confirmed that they didn't get their panels from the same manufacturer. Interestingly Doug is significantly more expensive than the others as well. I haven't fitted them yet so I can't vouch for their fit but the overall quality is very good. Shipping from the UK to CA was no problem either.
I'm in the process of converting my '77 mgb roadster with the Sebring kit from the MGOC. No problems with order or shipping to British Columbia.
Fibreglass isn't the thickest I've ever seen but my body man assures me he can get them to fit. They definately aren't a bolt-on item.
I went with 205/60-15's on 15x8 Minilites. No clearance problems on the front. They fill out the arches well and I've lowered the car so look is even better.
What was the final bill to get the flares including shipping? Thanks.
Converting to USdollars (they do take credit cards) at 1.5/1.
Sebring kit, inc 4 wings and rear valance $585
Aluminum front valance $420 (the fibreglass version was $98 but I bought the ally one)
Shipping from the UK to CA $285 (delivery was airfeight and took less than a week from ordering)
Various customs and "paperwork" fees $100
|I too am in the planning stage for a Sebring car. One question is the width of the rear axle. I know it should be narrowed but what width have those of you that have done the conversion used?|
I really like the look of the Sebring car but the cost in Canadian $$'s is something else.
I have access to our local auto body trade school and am hoping to make some flares out of steel at the school. What I need is the width measured from the inside of the wheel well to the outside of the wing. It would also be useful if someone was willing to make me a cardboard template of the flare. This would help me to form the right dimensions.
Anyone out there that can help me? The result may be a steel flare which can be welded to existing steel wings. If I can make a mold, I can make copies for others to use.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
|You might contact www.morspeedperformance.com and look at his work. I have ordered a hood from him in the past and it's quality was excellent. I am not sure if he sells a kit but you might get his # and give hime a call.|
|It is a lot of work to do Sebring flares. I really like the look, kind of fits with the V8 power. The car is more sensitive to road shock and vibration, because of the wider wheels and tires. Buy the best wheels and tires you can afford, they will balance out better. Also upgrade the suspension to poly bushings. I also fabricated a steering dampener system, using a dampener from a Pontiac Feiro. There is some increase in steering effort when stopped, but its not bad, and not as stiff as some manaul steering cars I have driven. It feels the same as stock while the car is moving.|
I used 14"x7" wheels with 215/60-14" tires. I wanted to stay with 14" wheels in order to have more tire sidewall. More sidewall helps improve the ride, and reduce road shock.
The wider rubber hooks up well, when your in the throttle hard! Wet weather driving isn't a problem with good tires.
|Thanks Bill, you are the only person to actually answer the questions I posted.|
Any more comments out there?
I would think you could go up to an 8 and maybe a 10 inch rim. This would enable much bigger than 215's. Possibly,225 0r 245. If I didn't go low profile this would increase the rolling diameter of the wheels,raise the car slightly and perhaps not require the normal rear axle gear increase normally associated with V8 conversions. Any comments?
|We are British American Motors in Florida www.Morspeedperformance.com|
|Sue, while I understand you may not want to type out too many words, I would like to know if your Sebring kit for $425 comes with just flares or the entire wing like MCOG's does. |
|There is no business that I would less prefer doing business with again than British American Motors. Man, what a sorry corner of MG-dom. YMMV.|
|bob, i do not have a sebring kit on my rdstr, i personnally think they look greta on gt's and okay on a rdstr, but i am putting the front and rear sebring valance on my car, i have (had) a rubber bumper car and i run poly bushings of course and upgraded suspension and brakes and i use 7x15 rims and 205/60 /15 tires. you have to roll the lip on the rear wheel wheels if the car is lowered to cb height as mine is. i am planning on installing a slight fiberglass flare on the rear only and will than change to either 8 or 9 x 15 rims with the same tires in order to get more traction on the road|
|Thanks for the heads up Bill!|
Could you give a reason for your feelings on British American Motors. I have had a couple of dealings with them and was treated favorably. I referred them based on the quality of parts I got and their communication throughout the transactions.
|While I am not running the Sebring kit, I have mounted 2 inch fiberglass flares that I bought from Bill Guzman. I believe they were originally designed by Joe Huffaker. Anyway, I have mounted 14 x 7 Aluminum slotted mags with 225/60x14 front and 245/60x14 rear with no clearance problems once I ground the inner fenders back about 2 inches. I still have about .5 to 1 inch clearance on the sides. Bill Guzman published a rear axle ratio calculator a while back, that indicates my overall ratio with the tires and stock B rear is 3.73 or close. It feels ideal at this time. I'm running a Camaro 3.4L V-6, so I'm happy with the off the line acceration. I'm sorry that I don't have the calculator handy, but you may find it in the archives. I endorse Bill Jacobsen's comments. I originally fitted 17 x 7 wheels, but the ride was very jarring, with so little sidewall.|
How about some more info about those 2" flairs?
Over the last year my GT V8 conversion has just been rebuilt as a Sebring. I haven't got it on the road yet due to the foul weather here in the north of England so I can't tell you what it runs like just yet, but should know by mid February. The car uses a Toyota Celica rear axle which is a few inches wider than a B and is much tougher (also has an LSD as standard) together with Wolfrace slot mag wheels 8.5 x 15 with zero offset. Tyres are 225/50 Bridgestone Potenza and on the brief drive back from the MOT station grip was not a problem!!!
I'll try and get some picture's on the MG Northumbria web site (www.mgnorhumbria.org) as soon as possible so you can see what it looks like.
This wheel and tyre combination seems to work OK with the 3.9 ratio of a standard B (the Toyota axle is the same in this respect) and evidencee of others in this area is that if you like acceleration this is the way to go. Also with a five speed box from the Rover SD1 the top gear is still about 25mph per 1000rpm so you don't go deaf on a long run.
Hope this helps, I'll try and give you some more info when the car is in regular use.
Great stuff, this helps a lot. I would be delighted to know more, as and when it becomes available.
Those flares may be the same as the front ones on my car. I bought them from Huffaker back in 1983. Or at least I hope they are, because if I ever need to replace one, I know where I can get them!
8" or wider would probably be ok on the rear. If you go to wide on the front, then you start running into steering geometry issues, mainly with king-pin inclination angle problems. Which can cause vibration problems. There are ways to control this with high quality suspension parts, good wheels and tires, and percise alignment settings. However the wider you go, the more sensitive to wear, road shock, etc the car becomes.
Whats engine and exhaust (Cobra) spec.
|As Paul says, I'm "well impressed" also!|
Your rear wings don't look like Sebring ones. Did you fabricate these yourself?
How much do second hand Toyota Celica rear ends with LSD cost in the UK and did you have to narrow it? I presume the stud PCD is the same as the MGB.
|Er, the pics on the site at the moment are of my roadster V8. This uses a 4.5 litre engine built by me with some trick heads by Rovertec, and a few other nice goodies inside. 300bhp or so according to the dyno, carbs are Weber 48s which are a little large but are modified to a smaller venturi (right price, right time!). |
The front wings are Sebring, but were of terrible quality and needed a lot of work the ones from MG Motorsport are much better, and the rear wings are home made as the Sebring ones aren't wide enough. The car uses a Jaguar S type rear axle so with 8.5 x 16 wheels it was necessary to get the fiberglass out!
The exhaust is also home made from 304 stainless but does use TVR tuscan (the racer with the Rover engine) manifolds. The route of the exhaust is tortuous as it goes back over the front suspension but was worth it I think for the extra stiffness from not cutting the from inner wings.
Link for some quick snaps of the GT is:
Can't seem to find
Is this URL correct?
Apparently MG Motorsport only do GT Sebring wings whilst the other ones available from the MGOC and I presume Moss are from Honeyborne Mouldings? I think and come as Roadster or GT.
You are correct, MGOC confirmed they get their Sebring wings from Honeybourne. I have just purchased a set from MG Motorsport, and although more expensive are of a high quality.
|Tony, How are they better? and did you get all the panels?|
Yes I got all the panels, see my comments earlier in this thread. In my research I had been warned that some Sebring kits were made from a "faulty" mold for the right front wing due to it being taken off a real MGC Sebring after an accident. This made it impossible to fit without extensive mods. I was also told that they also needed a lot of work to properly finish them off once you got then fitted on the car. All I can say is the MG motorsports ones do not suffer from either problem, they appear to fit well and the finish is good.
|The link for the pics of Dave Whites GT should be http://www.dur.ac.uk/ashley.holmes/mgnorthumbria/dave_white/dave_white_GT.htm|
Hope this helps
|Sorry for the confusion with the link details, Ashley has given the correct link in his comment.|
The wings from MG Motorsport may only be for a GT but even if you have a Roadster I would say to use them. The quality is first class compared to the others and the small mods you need to do at the top of the wing are as nothing compared to making the other wings fit properly. Trust me I've been there!!!
Bob, the Toyota axle used in the GT is from a seventies Toyota Celica 2000GT which has the LSD as standard. The difficulty in finding one in this country is that most have rusted into oblivion long ago, but cars that are left can be bought complete for not a lot of money. The guy I bought mine off only paid £200 for the car. PCD is the same as an MGB but the studs are metric (12mm) and the axle is that bit wider so some offset may be required on your rear wheels if you don't want the car to end up too wide.
|What a neat looking car. Those Sebrings just look absolutely su-perb. (I take it one would be well-advised to install a fuel cell if the rear bumper is removed, so that a Pinto effect doesn't occur if you get rear-ended.) |
Question: when you use front wheels that stick outboard much farther, does it screw up the Ackerman angles (or whatever you call the fact that the inside wheel turns a bit more sharply than the outside wheel in a turn)? I mean the center of the contact patches is in a different place. Also, is there a bump steer issue? ... or are my queries just ridiculous given that the wheels are just going out a couple of inches? I'm just curious.
|Hi Dave (White)|
Great car, I have my M<G motorsports kit, not fitted to my 74 roadster yet. A couple of questions:
1. The front wings are for a GT so the top of the wing at the windscreen end is different. The roadtsre wing continues under the windscreen, how do you fix that part.
2. Do you fit the whole wings or just "glue" the flared parts on, and if so, with what adhesive?
Did you consider cutting out the actual wheel arch flare only from the full glassfibre wing and bonding that to the original steel front wings and the same on the rear?
I like the front arch style and was considering using the front flared arches on all four corners so giving a round wheel arch effect. Any comments, suggestions?
This thread was discussed between 15/12/2002 and 08/01/2003
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical BBS is active now.