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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - anyone used a 2.3 turbo in MGB ?

Everyone has me thinking about using a 2.3 turbo instead of the 3.2 liter SHO or the 3.8 supercharged Ford. I would welcome ideas, suggestions, and links to information on such a swap. Any projects in MG's with these engines completed?
DLH Higginbotham

http://www.fallaclassics.co.uk/project_cosworth.htm

Paul
Paul

DLH,
I have some pics of a B with one in it and I cannot for the life of me remember where they came from. Would you like me to e-mail them to you?
David
David

Paul what a great car, but I think the engine alone would break most budgets. I was thinking more along the lines of a Thunderbird Tubro Coupe. More along the lines of a complete donor car and incorporating the drive line into the MG.
DLH Higginbotham

Here's a fellow club member's turbo MGB:

http://www.britcars.net/Seats1.html

I think the turbo came from an Escort?
Carl

Dave please send the pics, I am sure the layout will help
DLH Higginbotham

DLH,
I trust that you received the pics. Pretty awesome power if that dyno sheet is correct.
David
David

DLH...I just posted this in your last post. http://www.geocities.com/gocartmg/
Mark has a very nice car and is really helpful if you need any advice. He really helped me through mine, but I have yet to finish...may never!

Good luck,

Galen

P.S. If you want to learn more about the engine and its potential, check out www.turboford.org. As far as cost, my donor car was $300 for everything I need to get going, just got sidetracked on a Merkur XR4Ti(another damned turboford).
G.P. Copes

Galen,
I had pics of your car on my hard drive and have no idea where I got them from. Those are the ones that I sent to DLH. What a ride you have!
David
David

Dave,

Not my car, that is Mark's. I am too lazy to finish mine off! Time to get back to work!

Galen
G.P. Copes

Guys, for what its worth my MGA had a stock 2 litre Pinto (including original little downdraft Weber) in it for about 20 years. Ran a 4 speed then later 5 speed Sierra box and 3.9:1 diff. Was an absolute rocket up to about 50mph in stock non-turbo'd form. Was totally reliable and cheap! Its now a V8
regards
mark
mark mathiesen

That's my 2.3 TurboMG, it's the funnest car I've ever had. I had a regular 2.3 in it for about six years then stepped up to the turbo. It really didn't cost all that much. I fiqured out one time that I've put around $10K into the car over the last 11 years, and I've driven it over 150,000 miles over that time. That dollar fiqure includes the narrowed Mustang II rear end, two motors (one normal, one turbo), and the two T-5 transmissions I've trashed speedshifting. This car has been a blast and even made CNN Nation wide on opening day at California Dragway(Beat a WRX, 13.9 to his 14.6)
Mark
Mark

P.S. Thanx for the kind words guys
Mark
Mark

Way to go mark!! 13.9 is a good number!!

The 2.3: Ford is an ICREDIBLY powerfull engine for it's size. With proper tuning and some Choice Forged internals I have heard of guys getting 300 usable drivable HP. And I would think that fitment in the car should be quite straight forward due to it being a small 4cyl. They SHOULD be fairly inexpensive to get.

Some muctangs and T-birds, then all the XR4Ti's.
Larry Embrey

Mark, glad to hear from you. Since I started this thread I have become 99.9% sure I will put a 2.3L turbo in my MG. Have a 1985 Mekur with 158,000 miles, turbo does not work, newer T9 trans, and independent rear end available for me at a cost of $400.00. Whats your take on this? The price seems fair to me.
DLH Higginbotham

Dave,

The engine should have no problems, but the trans is a piece of crap. I am putting a T5 in my Merkur right now...along with massive intercooler, ported intake and exhaust manifolds.... They are awesome motors. I would recommend you use an intake (I believe upper only required) from an 87-88 TurboCoupe due to lower profile. This will keep you from having to beat on your crossmember as much as I did. Also, remove one of the pulley groves(as Mark told me to do AFTER I made it fit with the 3 groves) to make it fit better. Oh yea, the IRS out of the Merkur isn't the best rear in the world to use...look for an old postal jeep and get the Dana 44(make sure it is a Dana 44) out of it. It is the correct width and will take whatever you throw at it.

I am sure Mark will chime in with more notes. Just keep in touch and let us know how it is going.

Galen

P.S. Join www.turboford.org and learn what these engines are really capable of. With the advent of an aftermarket Al head, 350-400 RWHP is NOT out of the question!
G.P. Copes

DLH - that is a good deal. The turbo is a "standard" in the industry and depending on what is bad could be rebuilt for under $200
Larry Embrey

Galen and the Ford gang,
The turbo 2.3 measures pretty tall. Did you need to add a scoup or did you fit in under the stock hood? Did you run into sway bar interference? I will be doing my conversion this winter and I am in the last stage of deciding on 2.3 vs 5 liter fords. I have a very active dirt track racing bunch around here so there are alot of 2.3 engines and expertice around. The non-turbo 2.3s that perform well do not seem to be very streetable so I am leaning toward the turbo option. Did you like your non-turbo 2.3 and wanted more performance or was it a problem so you had to switch to the turbo model?

Any pics or advice from the gang would be greatly appreciated.
Chris
c l sorenson

Dave,

Is that price for the whole Merkur? If so, how about fixing it up and driving it for a while? They are really neat cars to own, and really fun to drive!

As far as the engine, I just wanted to let you know you are really only going to want to use the engine. If it were me and it was $400 for the engine, I think I would pass and put an ad in your local paper looking for an 87-88 TurboCoupe. Someone will probably contact you with a 5 speed car for around $500, then you have a good longblock, good trans, 3:55 posi 8.8 with disc brakes(sell to Mustang people for $250!), one of the best computers for the car(LA3). The only downsides to the 87-88 TC are the wiring harness is a royal pain to pull out and it comes with the IHI turbo, which will be small for your needs. For another $100-150 you can have a good T3, or $400 and have a T3/T4 hybrid well capable of supporting 400 RWHP. It just depends on what your goals are.

Oh yea, you will probably want to get a Bob's header for a Ranger conversion to move the turbo forward in the engine compartment. Look in the for sale section of turboford and there will be a sticky for bob40lee. I know Mark had to create something to move his turbo forward on his car, and now that a log manifold is available for $225, it is one heck of a deal!

Just want you to make an informed decision. Larry is completely correct in the turbo can be rebuilt for under $200, I believe there is a person on EvilBay that sells the cartridge for a little over $100.

Hope this helps and does not confuse you!

Galen

P.S. Larry, I just picked up another .48 T3 for $50 this weekend...was hoping it was a .63, but no such luck!
G.P. Copes

Galen, how is your project coming along? What major road blocks did you enconter? Did the steering, brakes and heater box need to be fabricated or did the stock layout in the MG work? Just trying to lay-out a game plan before the real fun begins.Does anyone know a place to locate used T5 trans? Is the layout, lenght and shifter location the same on the T9? Thanks.
DLH Higginbotham

GP good to hear!! I picked up a trio of units 2 weeks ago.. a good 63/60 and a pair of 48/60's. Only one of the 48's was complete with exh housing and and one of the 48's needs a rebuild, but I got the entire batch for $175 delivered HEH!! I got a buddy in Portland pulling the 48 wheel and installing a 63. Then I just need the housing and I am set!! Those are going on my long term project heh a Track only GT (though still street legal) Provided I can hook up and drive decent I should see easy 10's out of her.

My buddy use a person on evilbay and said they did a great job, was like $125 total O think.
Larry Embrey

Galen, price is for complete car. Body is solid but needs work on passenger sid dents,paint, windshield, shows signs of electrical problems since battery was disconected when I looked at it. car started right away, idled smoothly, but I did not drive it. Interior was in good shape, seemed clean and complete.
DLH Higginbotham

Dave, I would probably get it if it is the whole car. You can part most of it out and probably break even with you keeping the longblock. In fact, what interior does it have...if tan leather, we can work something out! :) It is amazing what people sell on EvilBay on the Merkurs, so what the heck!

As far as roadblocks, really none, just got sidetracked. I removed the heater and moved my motor back a pretty good ways. The crank pulley comes to the swaybar. Mark placed his further forward and kept the heater(probably smart move). Other than that, massage the crossmember and make motormounts. In fact, the mounts out of the Merkur may turn out to work pretty well...didn't know about them until after I made mine up. I will try to take some pics tomorrow and send them to you!

Larry, excellent score! I can't wait until you get your GT up and running! Those 302s just love to get a little air blown into them! Even though I expect to hear blow through carb, I hope you go EFI on it and really make it streetable!


G.P. Copes

Who said I was going to stay with a that sbf?? heh heh heh >:-D It will be a Ford and have 8cyl, but the rest is a secret! Mischief will ensue once I get the other projects cleared from the garage!! Though I will tell you it will be EFI based, I have become an EFI fan even though the initial wiring and plumbing work is greater. Plus I already have a tuner box siting here (bought for Vert and am not using) so I can tune it with my PC so why not!? heh.

GT Chassis will be free, and the motor/trans will be $250, not a bad start for a track project!!!
Larry Embrey

Galen, looking foward to your pictures. I am searching for a late model turbo coupe this week. If nothing really intresting turns up I will pick up the Merkur and start laying out plans for the MG. Sorry about the interior, it's grey cloth so it will be of no good to you. I will soon be looking for a intercooler to fit in the MG.I'll be looking to you and Mark for suggestions. Thanks, Dave
DLH Higginbotham

The Merkur is a good choice

1 The intake fits but I had to cut a hole in the hood, I covered it with the "bubble" from a Metsubushi Eclispe.

2 The steering, swaybar, crossmember, firewall all fit fine, close but fine. Keep in mind mine is a 77 and the radaitor and support are moved forward compared to the pre-75.

3 The T-5 is an excellent choice. I had to make a custom shifter but the shifter sticks through the stock hole and MG shift boot. For the rear trans mount I just notched the stock MG crossmember and used the 86 Tbird rear trans mount.

4 When I first had the Pinto 2.3& 4spd trans the MGs stock 3:91 rear end gears drove me nuts. Thats why I put the Mustang II rear end so I could use 3:00 gears. With the T-5's overdrive I had to switch to 3:55s. With those gears I run about 3K rpm @ 80mph. If you use the T-5 you could use the stock MG rear and probably run about 3,300 rpm @ 80mph.

5 If you use a Merkur engine, rumor is that is the easiest fuel injection harness to convert. I used an 86 Tbird harness. IMHO the wiring was easy, the plumbing took lots more time. The Intercooler was the worst part fiqureing out how to squeeze in. I had about 175 hp & around 200 ft/pnds torque at the rear tires without the intercooler and the car was plenty fast like that. (the Merkur didn't come with an intercooler)

6 This combo didn't effect the handling. I think the car might even be lighter like this. It sits at the top of the suspension travel when parked, the rear suspension limit straps are taunt when parked. With a bunch of crap including a full tank of gas and a full trunk including a tool box. the car weighs 2,540lbs.

7 BTW I found a lightweight space saver spare at the junkyard. Toyota Supras, Mazada RX7s (and a few other Mazadas), and some years 280-300Z Nissions have the same 4.5 on 4 bolt pattern. Take up less space in trunk, lighter.

OK enough rambling for now, hope this all made sense.
Again IMHO this is the perfect engine for this car!
Mark
Mark

Mark, great to hear from you. Thanks for the info, every day that passes looks more like the Mekur engine will do fine. Making mods to the hood is no problem, the Eclipse bubble sounds rather good looking. As soon as I pick up the Merk I will e-mail you and if you have any areas to be careful of or problems to avoid please let me know in advance. I am counting on you and Galen for info and support. Thanks alot, Dave
DLH Higginbotham

Ok I found the powerpoint slide and the collection of notes from when I put this thing together. If anyone is interested email me.
Mark
Mark

Hey DLH I tried to email you the slideshow but Hotmail wouldn't let it through.
Mark
Mark

Mark, I already sent him the slideshow that you sent me many moons ago!

Galen
G.P. Copes

I have the slide show and thanks alot. I am picking up the car today, so let the fun begin. I do not have your collection of notes and would really enjoy reading them.
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

Dave,

I will get you some pics tomorrow of what I have...and will also do some measurements to see if the Merkur motor mounts will work...they may just be perfect for the job!

Galen

P.S. I looked for Mark's notes...but was unable to find them. If Mark can't find them, let me know and I will look harder!

G.P. Copes

Galen
I was goint to pick up the Mekur yesterday and started it and took it for a test drive. It would not hit 20mph and I never got it out of second gear. Could not get the rpms up enough to shift to a higher gear. Car has been sitting for 3 years so the cause could be numerous.Needless to say I did not take the car as I know the price will come down. I'll let it set for awhile.

Thanks for checking measurements on motor mounts. When you have time give me some info on the intercooler you plan to use and the location you plan to install it.Sure not alot of room up front.
DLH Higginbotham

DLH - could you feel/hear the turbo spool up?? I would bet that the turbo is shot or gummed up and needs a rebuild.
Larry Embrey

Turbo did not run at all. no noise no boost. Owner says it hasn't worked in years. I still think the car should have more power than that, owner says he was driving it that way to work before he parked it three years ago. No way you can drive a car with a top speed of around 20mph and no pulling power on any street. Something wrong.
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

No she will not run any better without the turbo. If it is If the compressor is not spinning, then it is just blocking air flow, and you are lucky to even get going that fast. It is like having a block in your intake / air filter.
Larry Embrey

Dan, to see if it is just the turbo, unhook the wastegate arm from the wastegate on the turbo(it looks like a little diaphram with a shaft sticking out of it, at the end of the arm is a c clip that once removed allows the wastegate to open freely). It may also be a clogged cat...or may be something serious. As I stated earlier, I feel you could probably part the car out for what you will have in it, but nothing wrong with saving a couple c-notes while you are at it!

I took some pics of my project, and figured I would just link to them instead of sending you and e-mail of them. I will take a couple more later this week, one showing what I did on the driver's side to clear the steering shaft. You will also notice the entire engine is set back with the front of the engine even with the front tires for better weight distribution.

I also took a couple of my Merkur's motormounts, but didn't have time to measure to see if they would work.

http://www.turbocars.org/modules/Pictures/generated/galen/2.3mgbpics%20005__scaled_640.jpg


http://www.turbocars.org/modules/Pictures/generated/galen/2.3mgbpics%20005__scaled_640.jpg

http://www.turbocars.org/modules/Pictures/generated/galen/2.3mgbpics%20007__scaled_640.jpg

http://www.turbocars.org/modules/Pictures/generated/galen/2.3mgbpics%20008__scaled_640.jpg

http://www.turbocars.org/modules/Pictures/generated/galen/2.3mgbpics%20009__scaled_640.jpg

As for intercooler, I will probably make my own up from some cores I have laying around. I just converted my mig welder to gas and bought the straight argon for Al welding...lots of fun!

Hope these help!

Galen

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for how to change my mounts to rubber mounts, please feel free to throw some suggestions out there!
G.P. Copes

It sure sounds like a plugged Catalytic converter, if the exhaust can't get out the compressor don't turn real well. Be forwarned if the cat is plugged and he kept driving it it WILL run hot, that's been known to pop a head gasket. I will get some pics and notes later in the week, my old computer is stuffed in the back of my van as we had to evacuate Sat nite because of the fire, I live in Crestline CA
Mark

Mark, I'll keep you and your family in my prayers. Let us know when everything passes over!

And, I do wholeheartedly agree with Mark that it sounds like a bad cat there! Just gutted one on a quad 4 that was doing the exact same thing.

Galen
G.P. Copes

Mark hope you and your family are spared any loss from the fire. We will keep you and your family in our prayers also. I did not have time to go over today, probably not till the end of the week, to go over the car and make a new offer. Hopefully the cat is the problem, not that I'm not going to rebuild the engine anyways, but one thing at a time. Again my thanks to you and Galen, and I pray all goes well for you in this time of need.
Thanks,
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

I'm the mechanic for the Fire Dept here in Crestline CA, this fire is huge, the front side of the mountain looks like the moon there's no brush or trees left. Got to stand by the lake as the helecopters where drawing water for drops, I was less then 100 feet from the choppers and got pictures to prove it. This thing just keeps going and going. we've been with out power since last Sat nite, gotta use a generator at nite to watch the tube and run a light for a couple of hours. It looks like I'm going to be OK here, looks like my part of town will make it. It's a trip the town is EMPTY, dark and very quit. Gotta get to bed the last four days have been loooooong.
Mark
Mark

Mark
Glad to hear your going to be spared from the fire. I'll try to secure the car this weekend. Keep up the good work out there and keep in touch.
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

Galen, Mark
I picked up the car yesterday. The turbo is blowing air into the intake, but i still only read 1 to 2 lbs. of boost. I have been taking it apart and cleaning parts as i go. MAS seems fine, the compressor wheel spins freely, so do you think the problem must be in the exhaust? I have not removed the turbo yet, but that part is comming.
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

Dave, when you wiggle the imput shaft in the turbo, does the turbine contact the housing? If not, sounds like your turbo is probably just fine. Chop off the exhaust and see how she runs...sounding more like a cat to me!

Galen

OOPS, you really won't build any boost until the engine is put under a load, so don't worry about no boost in neutral
G.P. Copes

Galen,
The arm on the waste gate is either rusted into or broken off because when I stick my hand under the turbo I can move the flapper by hand very eaisly and the arm is not connected. It feels like the part the arm goes through is rusted off. There is no hole for the arm to go through. I will remove the turbo today.
Thanks,
Dave
DLH Higginbotham

Mark,
I pray for peace and safety for you and your neighbors.

Anyone,
I have access to an '85 mercury xr7 with a 2.3 turbo and an auto tranny with 175000 mils. The junk yard wants $300 for the engine, wiring, computor, etc.
From what I have read this is not the best choice due to a poor computor and it is set up for auto tranny.
I can't find any 87 or 88 2.3 turbos at this time and Iwant to be done with this conversion when the snow melts in May. Would it make sense to buy this and retrofit the '87 or '88 intake and computor?
Has anyone thought of using the auto tranny in a 77 B roadster? I understand the turbos do very well with an auto tranny.
I have to decide between the 2.3 turbo and the 3.4 gm v6 by next week as I have a line on an excellent 3.4 engine.
Thanks for the help.
Chris
c l sorenson

This thread was discussed between 09/10/2003 and 05/11/2003

MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical index

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