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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Big Block MGB
|New project in the works, read all about it at these links:|
We're looking for support from the MG community and in the next few days I'll be approaching the best local body and paint shops about possible sponsorship and probably TA Performance as well on the engine side since they have some specialty products that would apply. Naturally our familiar vendors are hereby extended a personal invitation to be in the forefront and showcase their products. If we get no objections I don't know why we couldn't dedicate space on the body of the car for recognition of contributors and sponsor ads.
|"If we get no objections I don't know why we couldn't dedicate space on the body of the car for recognition of contributors and sponsor ads."|
Ha, I just suggested the same thing over at the MG Experience:
Also, there is a GT body in the Trader section. I have a spare T-5 I would donate.
We're already getting a surprising level of participation and the plan is coming together nicely. Those of you who are close to our vendors and other businesses who are in a position to move this forwards, it would help greatly if you could contact them so that they could benefit from the publicity this will generate. Even if asking for a particular component might seem a bit much at this point at the very least it would be a courtesy on our part to let them know what we're doing so that they can contribute if they want to. We need everyone's help on this, as those of us who have started it are going to be pretty tied up with the nuts and bolts of the project.
So who is in?
I would like to contribute to the project.
Contact me offline as to what you may need.
First off, you could sneak over to Rick's & pick up that '74 1/2 GT donor car! :)
|Great idea - LOL !!|
That 455 should fit nicely into Rick's GT :)
|Thanks a lot Pete, Just the sort of support we need.|
Transporting Rick's donor car would be great. I'm sure we could get started right away with it, probably take us no time at all until he'd never even recognize it!
We are going to need a rear axle, bellhousing, flywheel and clutch, htob, a gear reduction starter and a radiator among other lesser parts but those are on the short list. Someone will need to let Ted know what we're up to as I don't think he watches the web too close. I don't know if he'll be able to give us a suspension but I'd guess he'll want in. We also still need to contact the LaGrou family and some others. Probably right now just getting the word out is as important as anything else. Well, that and getting the donor car into the shop... ;-)
I'll be back home by evening.
|Jim, What can I do to help?? I'll print this off and give to Ted|
|Steve, thanks a bunch! You mean other than helping Pete go get Rick's GT? ;-) (Sorry Rick, it's just toooo easy!)|
Well it sounds like you've already started. Obviously we're still looking for the ideal car, though a couple of potential candidates have shown up, and there's the short list of things we need. Smaller items will come later but be on the lookout for things you think we might need. Since we've all been there that shouldn't be too hard. Anyway, great to have you on board!
|Wait a minute.|
With 400-500 ft/lbs of torque on tap, that 9" Ford/3 link under Barney would sure come in handy! :)
|We do need an axle. While a 9" seems like a bit of overkill even for a big block, we wouldn't have to worry about it breaking. A ford 8.8 should also be fine and for that matter I think we'd probably be OK with a Dana 44 or GM 10 bolt. Regardless, it'll have to be narrowed unless we use a postal jeep axle.|
Pete Mantell has donated a Griffin radiator/fan combo and should be shipping it out today sometime. That will be the second component actually in hand so Kudos to you Pete, you have really helped to get the ball rolling. Carl has the transmission in hand and ready to bring when he comes up, and I hope to have the engine in a few days, depending on what sort of a deal I can work out with Eric. We also have a couple of possibilities on the body.
The axle is the remaining big ticket item that we really have to have. Maybe Ted could do something for us on that if a suspension is too much, or maybe Dan LaGrou could help us out there. I don't think there'd be any objection to vendors sharing the cost of the larger items.
That still leaves the gear reduction starter (for a BBB, maybe someone on that side could help out), flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, HTOB, and bellhousing before we can really fit things up. Then depending on what we do for the rear suspension, some sort of traction device and the driveshaft, etc.
At this point I'm pretty happy with what we have accomplished. But I can see that we could really use a page somewhere that is set up to track who donated what and what is left in terms of parts and work. If someone wants to step up on the web design side of things, I have a website with room for such a page. I think that would help things go smoother.
|Carl, NOTICE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS :)) Barney is not willing to donate, I am. ANY more wise cracks out of you and I'LL come down there and take the rear end out of the Camaro and donate it to the cause, and sit around at your house for the next month and drink beer and fart. And chase your pretty wife ::))|
I would suggest getting Curtis Jacobsen to create a page on the British V8 website this endeavour....easy and simple way to track donations and progress at a site we all already know how to navigate to!
BTW...A1 Alarm advises no suspicious activity at Chateau Ingram the past few nights....thank you.
|A few cannibalizations from everyone's car and we could have this thing built in no time!|
I have a used Camaro driveshaft to go with the T-5.
Not worried about you chasing anything. You'd have to train to run to the fridge for that beer. :)
|Thanks Carl :(|
|Oh cheer up. You've got some great lookin' grandkids to keep up with. I don't have any and won't for many more years. By then I'll be too old to keep up with 'em!|
|We now have a body to use in mocking up the conversion, though it's been crashed in the left front so a left front clip and hood would be real helpful. It's not the body we'll use for the car so the search continues, but it'll be quite helpful to have it while looking for the right car. Jimmy Littrell, a local MGB enthusiast made the contribution. Kelly Combs has contributed an axle, an 8" ford with MGB ends but we will need axle shafts for it. |
I should have the car here early next week. Also I will be setting up an escrow savings account for cash donations, so for those who want to contribute but have no ready parts that option now exists. Checks can be made to:
MGB Roadmaster Project c/o Blackwood Labs
9406 Gunpowder Rd.
Florence, KY 41042
|Paypal also is fine, Jim@BlackwoodLabs.com.|
|WE GOT BRAKES!!|
I'll tell you, this project is gaining momentum! Bill Guzman of Classic Conversions, Camarillo, California just this morning donated a COMPLETE 4 wheel disc brake system including Wilwood Calipers and a new master cylinder. His rear brake kit isn't listed yet so I don't have the exact details for it but have no doubt the quality will be as high as the front kit. You can reach Bill at firstname.lastname@example.org or 805-484-1528 and his website address is:
If you haven't been to his site yet you owe it to yourself to go there and browse around a bit. He's one of our favorite V6 vendors, a fine fellow and one of my favorite people.
While you're browsing, if you haven't had the chance to check out Pete's site this is as good a time as any. One of our best V8 vendors, with a special fondness for Ford engines: (edit: Pete also favors SBB engines, and has a 300 in the works.)
Remember, he was our first sponsor, gave us a beautiful radiator for the project, and has assured us of further support.
Due to the large size of the brakes we will have to go to 15" wheels on this car. So that's another item on the parts list. Some have suggested widened rostyle wheels but I think with the ad space on the body we're no longer in the sleeper category. Especially if somebody donates a "Star Wars" air cleaner. So we might as well use aftermarket wheels as well. Anyone have a set to donate? Standard 4 lug MGB.
We're gonna BUILD this beast! YEAH!
We'll be organizing a work party in due course, so those of you who want to come need to let me know what weekends you might be available so we can get a schedule worked out. Jim@BlackwoodLabs.com
I'll copy/paste this to the other threads.
|I have a set of "star" 5 spoke Sendel wheels I used on my old dark blue 4.2 GT that I will donate. All I need to do is figure out a cheap way to ship them. |
They are 4 lug with an offset to match the old 240/260 Datsun Z cars.
|I'll donate a set of bonnet struts so that you can access that beast of a block easier!|
Gotta be with a steel bonnet, though!
Pieces of Eight!
Struts for your MG
|Thank you Jim, that will be very helpful, and we can begin to consider what type of tires we want to use. On the shipping, I don't think we'll need them before we do a work weekend so if anyone comes from that area maybe they can deliver them. You are most welcome to come too of course.|
Rick, thank you also. How hard is it to use those as boot struts? The reason I ask, I still have the set I won at the last meet and can donate them as well if we can use them for the boot. Can't very well use them on my hood.
|I have a 69 gt that's been sitting in my back yard for a while. The sills are rusty. Is this a car you might be interested in? It will need new sills.|
It is wire wheels. Slight damange to left front fender.
Let me know.
Steve (you drove my GT at BritishV8-2006)
|Jim...the bootlid struts are easy to install and use...but are obviously intended for a tourer and not a GT (I do have struts for the GT). There are two different kits for the bootlid...one for 1962-1970 MGB and one for 1971 through 1980. I can help you determine which one you have.....|
Pieces of Eight!
|Steven, I think we would be interested. Sill replacement is something we are all pretty familiar with, how are the seams and the other areas?|
Rick, I'll get the info on those struts tomorrow, if they will work for the front do you think you might have a set for the rear?
The part number of my strut kit for the bonnet is 752908.
The part number for the bootlid strut is 752819.
The bootlid strut will not work satisfactorly for the bonnet and visa versa due to the variance in length.
Yes, I can supply which ever kit you do not have....just let me know....The bonnet kit will fit all years of MGB with steel bonnet. There are two different kits for the bootlid...1962 through 1970; 1971 through 1980.
Steve, I've been thinking about the best way to transport your '69 GT. Kelly Stevenson is in the western part of N. Carolina, if we had a way to get your car to him, he has an axle he was planning to bring up here, and Carl has the transmission, not far from there I think. If it helps, I have a trailer the right size, but we need a way to get it down there and back without any one person having to make a long trip in the process.
Do any of you have suggestions?
|I also meant to mention that Steve had a nice GT at the last meet which was unique in several ways. With a V6 conversion it also had an automatic transmission (was that a 200-4r Steve?) which was the reason I asked him if we could drive it, Edith having shown an interest in an MG of her own. It also has air conditioning which worked quite well and was done in such a way as to minimize the cost, resulting in a system that was inexpensive and effective. As I recall, Steve also had a nicely done small trailer which he pulled behind his GT, in matching white paint and blue racing stripe. He and his wife had the room at the west end adjoining the large grassy area and we had an entirely pleasant experience meeting them.|
In case I neglected to mention it Steve, your contribution is greatly appreciated. It is one of the most important components of the project, certainly the most challenging one to transport, and one of the most critical in our overall success. Thanks again.
Wrong Kelly. Kelly Combes is in Western NC. Kelly Stevenson is, I think just west of Chattanooga, TN.
I'll be driving my truck full of Scouts to Cumberland Island, GA end of May. Maybe we could time it for the return trip 1st weekend in June?
|I have a spare/working MSD 6AL box that I can donate if I'm sure it will be utilized. It really is best if you do the MSD Pro Billet distributor with it (which I don't have).|
|Michael S. Domanowski|
|The MSD 6AL on my Camaro is pared to an HEI distrubutor. We could do that on the Buick, plus the built-in rev limiter would come in real handy.|
|I'm easily confused. Kelley Combes is donating the axle, and I have noted the correction and location in the spreadsheet. Sorry for any misunderstanding that might have caused. He is indeed located in western NC.|
I have sent Steve an email, hopefully we'll hear something from him soon.
|My trans is a 700R4. Thanks for the kind words. |
I can probably deliver the car to you. Where are you?
I east of columbia,sc, exit 92 off I-20. Where is the axle in NC? Maybe I can pick it up on the way.
Do you want me to pull the engine and trans out before you get the car?
I'm just East of Asheville
Now if I just knew where Jim is located, I could figure out a roote by you to him.
Where east of Asheville? I used to live in Asheville and in Boone.
|Michael, Hi Buddy! Didn't mean to neglect you, and I'm sure an MSD will be a valuable contribution. (Especially if we can put a rev limiter on it!) No question that we can come up with a suitable distributor to drive it, I'll give you a personal guarantee on that. And for those curious, yes the SBB and BBB can both use the same distributor, just the gear has to be changed. The distributor on the car right now is one of the old ones but I do have a mallory in my spare 215. Carl, is that rev limiter in the HEI or the MSD?|
I have responded to Steve via email, Steve we'd love to have you visit and have a spare room you can use if you like while you're here. It's the least we can do.
Not much east of Asheville beside the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. I'm guessing Canton or Waynesville.
The rev limiter is built into the MSD box. Uses those plug in RPM "pills". Size up the driver, then sneak in the 4000 RPM pill. :)
When used with an HEI, the HEI is just used as the trigger & a coil holder.
|Jim, I misplaced your address, e-mail me with it and I'll get the 6AL out to you this week.|
Note: besides the discreet plug in rev limiter chips MSD makes a variable plug in unit. They have however been known to fail.
Iíll give you the 3000-rpm chip (standard for testing) and I can give you one for the upper range you think would be good (5500-6500 rpm) just tell me what value you want.
|Michael S. Domanowski|
|I just did a three hour pull of the engine and trans. |
I will be going by Asheville on I-26 and I-40. I can detour and get the rearend?
Will be leaving on May 3 to go to Jim's. Should be in Asheville before noon.
Hope things can work out.
I have contacted Steve, Kelly and Mike by email and hopefully Steve and Kelly can coordinate the trip.
Actually that would be a reasonably good time to get started working on the car if anyone else would like to come up then or over the weekend. I still have the RV which makes a pretty decent bunkhouse and can accommodate probably 4-6 people in varying degrees of comfort, and it does have the necessary amenities, plus if we get a big crowd there's always floor space in the shop.
I'm in the process of making room and cleaning up and may not be done by then so you may need to overlook a bit of untidyness, but at least it is a large building so we shouldn't be too cramped.
Better get one of the Scouts to help you out with "East":)
Although, there's not much here either. I'm in Marion, about 30 miles East.
Scott, I'll e-mail you so we can arrange a pick up.
|Right, Asheville is east of the Smokies. :)|
I thought Marion was just up the road in Virginia.
|East, western Carolina, northeast Tennessee. It's all confusing. All I used to need to know was SOUTH. I'm originally from the Heart of Dixie.|
Western NC likes to set themselves apart from the rest of the state just to honk off the folks in Raliegh.
Just to make it more confusing, there is a Marion VA just across the border. Marion, NC is about 30 miles due East of Asheville. It's one of those places that people say, Ahh yes, I've driven through there on my way to:
Western NC is the best part of the whole state. It has the mountains!
|Sounds a bit like the relationship West Virginia had with Tidewater Virginny along about the time of the war. Though predominately southern sympathizers, (subject to some debate) by aligning themselves with the North they were able to pull off a coup that even the South didn't manage, and in the process became the only state in the union to ever succeed at seceeding. Mountani Semper Liberi!|
I may be in Kentucky but the mountains of W.Va will always be home. And now you know why I love these 'evil' handling grossly overpowered little monsters so well!
|Steve is bringing the GT body in about 2 weeks an I'm going to pick up the roadster body today. I will need to pull the engine/tranny and return them, meaning I'll need the hoist which is now holding the BBB engine. Can anyone either loan or donate an engine stand? |
|"Can anyone either loan or donate an engine stand?"|
I can donate an engine stand. I'll be coming through Kentucky on the 26th, heading for Indianapolis, and I can drop it off at your house. I'll be on I-75 to Lexington, and then on I-64 to Louisville. How far from those interstates are you?
|Dan, I'm 2 miles from I-75 just south of the Cincinnati beltway, which puts me an hour or so each from Lexington and Louisville. However, the I-75/71 split is maybe 5 miles down the road so there is a direct route each way. Probably add an hour to your trip but it sure would be nice to have you visit.|
|I brought the roadster home today, next task will be to remove engine and tranny and find a space for it. The body is sitting on a cart, no rear axle, and I will probably remove the front crossmember and some of the crumpled sheetmetal in front. Turns out to be a 1970 split bumper model. The floors and sills have been replaced but it was a poor job so some of the tin may be reusable and some not. At this point it's best use seems to be as a mule for fitting, especially as both cars are mark-II's but perhaps at some point in the future it could be restored to use as a roadworthy car.|
I've made good headway in creating space in the shop and by the time Steve gets here I should have ample space for both cars and room to work. Can't guarantee all the clutter will be sorted out but I'll do my best!
I have business in Indianapolis after 3:30, so stopping by your house would be a good side trip. Send me your address and phone number, please, and I'll get a map from mapquest. See you on the 26th!
|If needed, I would gladly offer any machine work on the motor pro bono. I don't know how in depth the plan is to rebuild whatever engine will be used, but I can do anything that might need attention, boring, decking, crank grinding, line boring, head work, balancing, etc. It might make a good tech article as I could take pictures of each maching operation. I'm not real close to project headquarters (one hour north of Greensboro)but perhaps something could be worked out with getting the pieces to me. A customer of mine is right now installing a new Superflo chassis dyno, maybe I could do a deal with him also when the time comes. Dale Spooner|
|Indianapolis is a little over an hour away if you don't have other business in Louisville. Here's my info:|
9406 Gunpowder Rd.
Florence, KY 41042
I-75N to Mt. Zion Rd exit #178 Left on Mt Zion.
Approx 1/2 mi to stop sign, Right on Gunpowder Rd.
6/10 mi to 9406 Gunpowder on Right.
White ranch on hill, concrete drive, white board fence with stone pillars.
Look forward to seeing you Dan, and Edith says, "Welcome".
|Thanks Dale, that is a very welcome offer. We have a 430 Buick and dibs on a 455 block (I need to call the owner). So far we haven't torn anything down to see what we need but hope to get to that soon. I'd like to do a trial fit in the car first. I'm expecting the bellhousing shortly and can use my old T50 for fitting before Carl has a chance to bring the T5. |
I've put both yours and Dan's names down on the contributor's list, do you want to be identified as sponsors? Some time before paint (which will be close to the last thing we do) I'd like to meet with all sponsors to get graphics ideas.
I think we will probably be able to arrange transportation for the machine work.
We certainly appreciate your contribution, could you send me your telephone number? Thanks,
Looks like Dam will drop off an engine stand. Will you need another? I have four, and could bring one in the GT if you will need more than one.
|Repost from the other forums:|
Jamie at, "Newport start n chargestarter/alternator rebuilder" will be helping us out with a mini starter for the project. A respected vendor on the V8 Buick board, he had a run of bad luck from his suppliers where apparently a large number of starters failed all at once. He replaced them but had to eat the shipping and is trying to recover from that misfortune. Someone who tries so hard to do the right thing is bound to be supported by his friends and by others who see the value in what he's doing, and as soon as he can bounce back a bit he will help us. Well, our time schedule isn't all that tight and we can afford to wait. So to anybody who would like to support the MGB Roadmaster project but isn't sure exactly how, one way you can do it is by buying one of Jamie's starters! Something good for you, good for Jamie, and good for us too! See this thread for all the feedback you could ask for, I think his prices are pretty good.
By the way, we now have the donation of an engine stand for the BBB by Dan Masters of Advance Auto Wire:
The best wiring kit you'll find anywhere, bar none!
And of paramount importance, Dale Spooner will contribute the machine work. The following is a quote from the British V8 Newsletter:
"Dale is the proprietor of one of New
England's premier engine machine shops, Motion Machine in
South Burlington, VT. (Now relocated to Danville, VA.) Motion Machine specializes in the
precision machining required for successful high performance
and exotic engine building. Many other machine shops routinely
send their difficult work over to Dale, such as four valve/cylinder
heads, Ferrari and other exotics, as well as rectification of other's
bungled jobs. For high performance head work, Dale works
closely with Dwayne Porter, a master porting and high
performance head expert. Dwayne has his flow bench and
porting equipment in the Motion Machine facilities."
I don't know how familiar he is with the BBB but he's certainly familiar with it's little brother!
|The bell housing came in today, it fits properly and had been cleaned up nicely so it is ready to use. That's good news because we can now do a test fit in the car. |
I've gone a few days without posting, and that will happen from time to time, but my philosophy on a conversion is to try to do at least one task on the car every day, even if it's nothing more than finding that certain bolt. This keeps the project interesting and moving forwards, and eventually it all gets done. For an example of that philosophy in action see:
in the latest edition of the V8 Newsletter.
I may not post every day, as it would not always be all that interesting to read about the quest for a bolt, but when I do I'll try to bring everyone up to date.
The bell housing was a donation from "Woodie" (Michael B. on the V8 board), Thanks Woodie, we greatly appreciate that.
Dan Masters (MG board, MGE) dropped off a very nice engine stand on his way through yesterday. It is quite stout and stable and once I've figured out an accurate way of weighing the engine I'll get it mounted. I removed the alternator and bracket, fuel pump, motor mounts, flex plate, heat shields, exhaust manifolds, pulleys and distributor today in preparation for weighing. Haven't decided about the carb but may remove it as well. The starter was already removed.
Dan and I spent an hour or two talking shop, looking at bits and pieces and such. While we were at it we unwrapped the 340 short block I had bought from Fliteline. Bill told me they have one more of these and I can tell you they are willing to deal on it, as they are getting rid of the old stock. After we had made a deal it took them a couple of days to search the warehouse for it and they turned up the other one too in the process. Don't know if I really should tell the details of the deal but I think I will anyway. I let them just do a visual check rather than their normal tear down and reassembly in exchange for shipping costs and it ended up costing me $450 delivered to my door for the short block. It's .030 over and the crank is -.010", a little dusty, some paint flaked off, and no lifters but I think that's a pretty good deal. The bonus is that the pistons have very little dish and I'll have to check deck height to know but there is at least a possibility of having the high compression pistons. I'll check it in another day or so. This is the engine that will replace the Olds 215 in my car. (The link above)
I've just about got enough room now for all three cars with enough room to get around them, work on them, move things and whatever else, and still have more moving to do so it will soon be quite roomy even with all 3 cars inside. The lab is a 40 x 60 metal building with 2 15' tall garage doors and I'm in the process of getting stuff up on to pallet racks. Yesterday in the office area (the place where the office will be when I manage to build it) I set up a set of drums and I've stocked the cooler, so taking a break from the action will be more enjoyable. But I have to get rid of some things and if anyone is interested I'd just as soon see you guys benefit. Here's the list:
Compressor- a big fella, 1 stage 2 cylinder Quincy compressor on a 120 gal tank. We set it up with a 15 hp 3 phase motor and reversed the lines to run it as a vacuum pump, but a 5hp 220v motor would run it as a compressor using a small drive pulley and it would make a fine compressor for the small shop.
4ea DC welders- 3 phase, 250amp "fireplug" style. 2 have the contactor missing and are labeled "runs, no arc" one more is missing the contactor cover and the other is complete. I'll test them as I have time but probably 2 work and 2 need contactors and brushes.
Hydraulic unit- 5hp 1500psi with radiator, and a 12"dia x ~18 500psi cylinder (needs seals).
If anyone wants any of this contact me and I'll make you a good deal. We need the space and I don't need the stuff. Trades considered, we could use things like a MIG, sheet metal shear, and brake (which I don't have).
Next week Steve will be here with the GT, and I got a delivery notice today which I think is for the MSD unit from Mike Domanowski. I'll have more to write later.
|I just got an E-mail from Kelly. Looks like I will be meeting him in Blackmountain, NC to get the rearend on my way up. Should see you Thursday evening.|
Sounds like things are moving along.
|"Dan Masters (MG board, MGE) dropped off a very nice engine stand on his way through yesterday."|
Been a busy week, wasn't thinking. I should have found a way down to Dan's to let him deliver the T-5!
I will be traveling I40 thursday May 3. If you are near it, we could meet and throw the trans in with the rearend from Kelly.
Let me know it I can help.
|No real hurry Carl, it'll give you a good excuse to visit. We can use the T50 for test fitting. Now when was it you were planning that trip?|
I can bring down my scales to your house in a couple of weeks for taking measurements. (May 12th)
Let me know if that will work for you.
|Might be a good idea Pete. But let's see how the rig I'm working on turns out too. Another day or so and I think I'll be ready to try it. Basically I have a set of stands which I am putting platforms on, then I have 2 identical digital package scales and a beam across them which should be able to support the engine. I'll take photos when it's rigged up. I figure I can add the readings of both scales and get an accurate weight. But even if I do get it to work you're more than welcome to come by, and there's plenty to do. Got the cooler stocked too!|
It looks like the Roadster will only be of limited usefulness even for fitting. Last night I cut away the mangled sheet metal and removed the front suspension and crossmember. the left frame rail is pretty mangled, and the footwell is pranged as well so once the engine is out I'll probably cut off the stub. We can still fit the engine in place but a good bit of that place is gone. The good news is that Steve will have the GT here Thursday, and another advantage is that there will be plenty of room to work around the lower end of the steering column. I'm pretty sure it will have to be moved. I have another undamaged crossmember we can slide into place to check location if this one is bent, and should be able to tack a couple of braces into position to hold the location. If I've gotten it by then we can use the starter for my 340 during fitting, as I won't need it on that engine for awhile yet, but that's just a loan.
I want to get the engine weighed so I can put it on the engine stand and free up the hoist to pull the engine out of the roadster, reposition it on the cart, and get ready to test fit the engine and tranny. Once that is done we can start the teardown of the engine, unless we decide to test fit it into the GT first. In the meantime I'm accumulating enough scrap that I may have to make a trip to the dump. At least I'm also clearing floor space in the process. This project has given me the best excuse to tidy up the lab I've had for awhile and I'm taking full advantage of it. Who knows, I might even manage to repaint the floor. It could use it.
|Repost from V8Buick board:|
I have the engine weight for the 430. With iron heads and intake, no carb, distributor, pulleys, alternator, brackets, starter, motor mounts, exhaust or flex plate, ( crank damper is installed) the weight is 495 lbs. This seems to correlate fairly closely with what I've heard.
I also have the engine number: S3814.
I'm trying to get some photos of the setup, etc but the photo gadgets are not cooperating too well so it may take a bit longer than I expected.
I've also pretty well finished with reorganizing the lab to make workspace and all but one corner is swept up so nobody needs to worry about getting stuck with clean-up duty. I've even got one workbench completely cleared off. (That only leaves about 10 more to go!) Anyway if I wanted to I could easily fit 4 more MGB's inside and still be able to get around them so I think we'll have adequate space. My goal is to have at least half of the benches cleaned up by the weekend. If I can double that so much the better. Sure would be nice to have the tools all put away, it's been so long since everything was where it belonged I won't know how to act.
Well I've got to go by the post office tomorrow to pick up the package Mike sent. Didn't really do much on the project today except weigh it, but it's important to have a clean and spacious work area so maybe that counts. Anyway next the engine comes out of the roadster and we go for a test fit. Can't wait to see how that goes.
|We now have Mike's MSD-6AL unit and it's on the shelf with the Griffin radiator and some other parts. As for me, well I'm not going to make it much further before I have to rest. I've got half the workbenches cleaned up and would like very much to get the rest done before I stop, but my muscles ache, my fingers are getting sore and my hands feel fat. Maybe some of you guys feel that way every day and it sounds like I'm just whining, but it just gets worse from here. I'll have to take a break from it. I've been up until 2 or 3 am every night for a pretty long run now and it's about time to rest.|
But I want everyone to know that this is a serious project and since I'm leading the way I need to lead well. My promise is that when you come to visit you will have pleasant surroundings, a comfortable place to work on the car, and the tools to do the job. It isn't a TV studio, but then again there's no worry about scratching the paint on the floor either.
Well, I'm headed back out to tackle yet another bench.
BTW, Dan M, we had the legs on the engine stand turned the wrong way. It all lines up correctly now.
|Jim, you are doing a great job of leading this project.|
Your title! Lead Project Manager of BBS-B01
(Big Block Super - B #1)
OK! instead of a Big block, how about a Big V6???
|Thanks Bill. I'll do what I can. I'll start having more fun once I get a little rested.|
Repost from MGE:
Guys, is anyone close to Bowling Green, KY? (About 200 miles for me)
We have a 455 BBB being delivered to the Nationals there on the weekend of the 18th and someone needs to be there to pick it up. I was hoping there would be somebody close. I'll make the trip if not.
Steve will be here with the GT tomorrow, and is bringing Kelly's axle also. I have finished pulling the engine from the roadster and we can do a test fit with the 430. Also I ordered a camera battery and should be able to get photos uploaded soon.
We'll bring the GT right on inside, where it'll stay until finished except going out for paint.
The engine is out of the roadster so we can use it for a preliminary test fit, and it can donate a couple of spring leafs as well.
That's all for now,
|It's on the road headed your way Jim. I just met Steve and loaded the axle parts in the GT.|
|Steve and Margaret made it up here by about 4:30pm and we rolled the GT off the dolly and right on inside and then unloaded the axle and looked the car over. It's a good donor car. Bodywork is straight with one small exception, but I wouldn't be ashamed to drive it as is. It does need paint and a little help on the fender seams, and of course there are the sills. Nothing new there. Actually I haven't even looked at the sills yet, Steve said they need work.|
Then we all went out to Skyline Chili for a bite. When in Cincinnati... well, Skyline *is* an institution after all.
Tomorrow we plan to do some test fitting and look at the steering, probably starting out with the roadster and then maybe doing a fit up in the GT if it looks good. Might as well do the fun part right away. ;-)
We need to schedule a work weekend. Anybody care to recommend a date?
|We have photos! Go to MGE or V8Buick. 5 shots of the GT with the BBB sitting in the car, the first one with the hood closed! (Well, nearly and we can fix that.) So far it''s been a great weekend!|
|I saw the photos Jim; the project is proceeding nicely!|
|Michael S. Domanowski|
|Jim, can you be a bit more specific on how to find the pix ? Rgds, Barrie E|
|Here you go, Barrie...|
Photos near the bottom of page 4...
|Also this link will get you to the V8Buick thread:|
Pete and his family made it over on Saturday and he brought not just his precision scales but also a couple of hoods. One was a standard steel hood and the other, a very nice piece, was a fiberglass MGC hood which I'm thinking will do a great job of providing us with just a little extra clearance in the right places. I'll have to post the photos on the other sites, but in essence we'll have better than 1/2" to spare over the valvecovers once the motor mounts are in and everything is fitted up.
The lower end of the steering will need to be moved down 2-3" at the firewall and this can be determined after the heater is out, the tunnel bumped in a bit, and the engine refitted, something I may be able to do in the next couple of days. The heater will go back in btw, we just need to see how far we can bump in the tunnel.
We weighed the engine and also weighed a B series engine for comparison, equipping the two as similarly as was practical, weighing the BBB two different ways for verification. The BBB weight with iron heads and intake, rocker covers, front cover and water pump but without carb, distributor, pulleys, flywheel, starter, filter, or oil was 501.5-502 lbs. The B engine had no valve cover but did have the distributor, old style oil filter, oil hoses, fan, and had oil but was 1-1/2 qt low. Like this it weighed 305 lbs including the intake, heat shield and phenolic spacers. We felt this was close enough to conclude that the iron 430 adds 200 lbs to the front of the car, and anyone who would like to be more exact could easily weigh the individual components or oil themselves. At any rate the car sits remarkably level with the engine in place, and if we do manage to get aluminum heads and intake, dropping perhaps 60-80 lbs it puts us very close to the weight of a 302 swap. My scales showed a difference of 5 lbs less on the BBB so that shows me they are reasonably close for general usage.
We are getting pretty close to being ready to ship the engine off to Dale. One or two more times in and out of the engine bay and I have some phone calls to make.
Meanwhile, we have had our first cash contribution, left for us by the preacher who had owned the GT and found by Steve while dismantling the interior. There is now a grand total of $2.23 in the kitty. We will add to that without a doubt. For one thing, Pete declined the trade of the old hood for the fiberglass one so we have a perfectly good aluminum hood that we can sell for money to put towards parts or shipping that aren't covered otherwise, and we will no doubt find other parts we can do that with as well. So in reality a donation of good parts that we really don't exactly need for the car is still a way to help fund the project. Everyone has been pretty generous so far and I'd just like to remind everyone that this isn't my project, it is your project, and when it is finished those who have donated to it will be part owners of it and entitled to take it to their local shows. I'm doing what I can to make that happen, and I'll try this week to contact the secretary of state and get the organizational steps moving. In the meantime, thanks for your support.
|It's a shame this forum is so hampered by the inability to directly post photos or at least thumbnails in the thread. Because of that and the fact that photos are a big part of reporting on this project I'm afraid this thread is going to come up short.|
But here's what's happening now. Motormounts and rotisserie stands. Not much I can do to ask for help on the mounts without photos. On the rotisserie, can anyone recommend a distance above the bumper mounts (CB) for the pivot on a GT to get reasonably close to the center of gravity? I know some of you have built or used them, your thoughts would be a lot of help.
|Here ya go, Jim. New options:|
Mike Plumstead, UK
Today we have introduced two new features to the BBS - both relate to pictures and apply to members only.
1. You can upload a JPG or an unanimated GIF image with your post to accompany the textual post. Images should be no bigger than 700x500 pixels at 72dpi. The larger the image the longer you'll have to wait for the upload to process. Images will appear as links on posts. Non-members can view them.
2. Under customise (top right text menu) you have a new feature that allows you to upload a picture that will appear with all posts under your name, location and email address (or the bits you supply). You can choose to see these images in-line or turn them off (under customise).
The upshot is that there are pictures if you want them, but you don't have to see them.
Only MG related images please. Uploads are monitored and misuse should be reported using the normal abuse link please.
|Jim there was a thread a little while back about the pivot offset on the rotisserie.|
3.5 inches above the normal bumper mounting line seemed to be the general opinion.
|OK, I'll give that a try.|
David, thanks for the info. So if that's for a roadster then maybe around 2-3" for a GT? (I realize it's a guess, won't hold you to it ;-)
Today I went and looked at some bushings but Pep Boys has a limited selection. The urethane swaybar bushings looked interesting but are oriented the wrong way to use easily. Came home and looked through the parts bin. Shock bushings for a semi are interesting, I'll try a photo of that. They have a nice shoulder that could be used to isolate the engine plate, and with a sleeve and bolt anchoring it to the car it would need no torque link. Best of all it would be an easy install.
|Here's a photo of one of the motor mounts. Still need to make the lower plates but once that's done the engine can go out to Dale Spooner and we can work on the body while waiting for it.|
A schedule for work weekends is now in place, taking the last weekend of each month for the project so that we have a regular schedule we can plan around, beginning with the 30th of this month. I'll have the layout done on the motor mounts by then so that we can concentrate on the body and the rotisserie.
|Way back in the cobwebs of my memory I seem to remember that Chevrolet tried to use mounts in the front of the engine (Back in the early 50's, but similar to this) and a conventional (to us nowadays) transmission mount. There was a problem with cracking the bellhousing due to the long unsupported beam. May not be a problem here since the trans and bellhousing are a lot lighter - but something to consider. Engine plates that I know of mount to the front and rear of the engine block, and I am assuming that that's not in the BBB design.|
Wish I had the time to be more involved - this thing is going to be great. Just spent the weekend at York, PA, at the NSRA yearly event - and I'm a little pumped up.
|That sounds like something we should maybe keep an eye on, but there are so many differences that it'd be impossible to predict. I guess we might want to reinforce the cut off starter bulge though. Those are the kind of questions that we need to consider, so thanks for bringing it up. I guess the ultimate solution would be a scattershield but that's probably overkill.|
I've got a template made for the lower plate and should be able to cut some metal tomorrow. Still need to find some 11/16 OD .120" wall tubing for the standoffs and the engine mounts will be all but complete.
|Except for some welding the motor mounts are done.|
|Guys. I need your help. The next step of the project requires reinforcing the inner fenders prior to cutting holes for the headers to pass through, and also to compensate for the far forward location of the motor mounts. The best way to do this is by doubling the inner fender or wing, so I need a set of inner fenders from a parts car before we can go any further. These should be cut as close to the firewall as possible and as low as possible, preferably below the beginning of the overlap at the frame rail and can be cut a couple of inches forward of the radiator mounts. Any year, roadster or GT should be acceptable. Thanks.|
|Templates are made for the fender cutouts:|
Nice reflection of the lamp, don't you think?
|The picture of the templates makes me think of exhaust manifold to head flange. Is this because the primaries are going to exit through the inner wing with the collector being in the wheel arch?|
|Jim, you're a genius! I've been scratching my head for a month for an easy way to reinforce my inner fender cutouts. I was going to try to form strip of metal all around the edge, but knew that it would probably not turn out well. The idea of using an extra set of inner fenders is so obvious - except to me! Where would we be without the internet? I'm just sorry I can't offer the inner fenders from my parts car!|
|David, that is correct. In this case there is more room for tubes outside than inside. The two center tubes will use a common flange and the outer ones independent. There is approx. 2-4" of straight distance from the head flange to the inner wing.|
Ryan, you're starting to sound like my little brother ;) (And I respect his opinion btw.) Brad out in Colorado said he would ship in a set of '68 GT inner fender cutouts so we should be covered. Once they get here and are cleaned up I'll decide whether to use them inside or outside and begin the layout. Then it should be a simple matter to mock up the rear port, at which point I can begin work on the steering.
Once that is well in hand everything will be set for those of you within driving distance to work your magic in your own particular specialty. I'm looking forward to seeing that.
You may want to try something like this. I welded a 3/16 round rod around the cut-out to add a nice rounded edge. You can't bend it!
|That's a nice bit of work Kelly, it might be something we can use.|
Some progress has been made, check out the Buick forum for all the photos, 19 in all:[http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?p=1010968#post1010968]
Brad Carson's fenderwell cutouts arrived and were promptly put to good use. They were fitted up and the header openings located and cut, plus a mock-up of the left rear header tube positioned to determine steering column and rack relocation. Photo below.
Bill Young, "Service Garage" in Kansas City, MO has sent us our first actual premeditated cash contribution, a check for $100, (Thank you very much Bill!) and Dan Masters started the ball rolling by promising $100 when he comes through and picks up the axle housing to deliver it to Ted Lathrop (Fast Cars, Wayland, MI) who has promised to weld it up in the proper MG configuration. My intention is to use some of the first check to cover the costs of setting up the organizational structure. Hopefully the state fees will be only a fraction of that and there will be some left for parts, but at this point I think that first step is a necessity.
From the layout using the mock-up tube it appears that the steering shaft will have to be moved down about 2", perhaps slightly further depending on the size of the u-joint used. It's kinda gratifying to discover that this distance is exactly the same as the first estimate before any measurements could be taken.
We're now at the point that about the only thing left before sending the engine out is to finalize the fit with the correct transmission and make up the transmission mount. Are you listening Carl? When exactly is that trip you've been planning? I want to make sure I'll be here.
The regularly scheduled Roadmaster weekend is one week away. For any who would like to come I would be grateful for any advance notice you could give me.
|This coming weekend is the Roadmaster weekend here in sunny (or rainy, take your pick) Florence, KY. It looks to be the biggest weekend so far so if you can, come and join the fun!|
|Quite a good weekend. Carl brought the T5 which we fitted and made up a mount for, we got the car up on the rotisserie, and we got the engine to break free. Currently we are trying to arrange the transport of a second engine, a 1970 445 which is the "correct" engine for this swap from Eureka, KS to Florence, KY. Anyone care to help with this?|
That's Carl in the photo below:
|Nother weekend come and gone. Dan Jones stopped by on his way out of town and we visited for a spell this afternoon, looks like he will be able to help transport the 455 so I've got to pass around contact info to him, Bill and Allen. That's next on my list of things to do. Anyway it turns out that Dan is a pretty interesting fellow and we found lots to discuss. So much in fact that it'll be dark before he gets home. Sorry Dan, I seem to be doing that a lot. Guys, let me know if it's important to leave on time. I'll try to make sure you do so.|
Dan is a big man. I'm no small fry myself but next to him I look like it, so when we got in my MG and went for a ride it felt downright sluggish. More reason to get on with the 340 swap, and to get the Roadmaster finished. I bet IT won't feel sluggish!
I spent most of the day making up a bending die for 1-3/4" tubing, but yesterday I did get some cuts made for the steering column relocation. Still more to do there but I've misplaced the cutting discs I need.
|"Guys, let me know if it's important to leave on time. I'll try to make sure you do so."|
Not to worry, I made it home by 1:45 AM! :)
|I was thinking of you Carl, when I wrote that, and sorta cringing at the thought of how your wife must have liked it. I suspect I've been derelict in my duties and should have given more attention to the women folk. I can (and do) apologize for it and will try to do better in the future. After all, I really should take responsibility for that. If we make the wives unhappy with our behavior it's sure to cause limitations we wouldn't otherwise have and that can't be good for the project. Probably wasn't real fun at work on Monday either.|
Well, on the plus side we did make very good use of the time we had. You'll be happy to know I now have incorporated Bill's winch idea into the rotisserie (photo below) and the BBB is turning over pretty freely thanks to you. I've also just about finished painting the crossmember.
|Hey, I was having too much fun to go home! That's quite a toy box you have out in the back yard.|
|> Dan Jones stopped by on his way out of town and we visited for a spell this|
> afternoon, looks like he will be able to help transport the 455 so I've got
> to pass around contact info to him, Bill and Allen. That's next on my list
> of things to do.
Bill and I have traded email and I've sent a private message to Allen
via the V8Buick forum.
> Anyway it turns out that Dan is a pretty interesting fellow and we found
> lots to discuss. So much in fact that it'll be dark before he gets home.
> Sorry Dan, I seem to be doing that a lot. Guys, let me know if it's
> important to leave on time. I'll try to make sure you do so.
It was great to finally get to meet you. No big deal on getting home before
dark. Checking out the Roadmaster project and your roadster was much more
interesting than what I had planned to do had I gotten home earlier.
> Dan is a big man. I'm no small fry myself but next to him I look like it,
> so when we got in my MG and went for a ride it felt downright sluggish.
> More reason to get on with the 340 swap, and to get the Roadmaster
> finished. I bet IT won't feel sluggish!
Heh, heh, heh.
> Kelly Combs has contributed an axle, an 8" ford with MGB ends but we will
> need axle shafts for it.
Are you still planning on using the 8"? If so, there a few tricks that
will help it live with power and traction. What gear ratio does that
8" have. I might have a fairly tall (2.80:1) ring and pinion if you are
> Thank you Jim, that will be very helpful, and we can begin to consider
> what type of tires we want to use.
Given the limited tire width that will fit in the MGBGT wheel wells,
you might want to consider the Falken Avenis RT-615'. I'm running
the Falken Avenis RT-615's in a 205/50/WR15 size on my Triumph TR8:
The RT-615's are the supposed to be the stickiest non-competition
street tire you can buy in that size. They replaced the RT-215 which
used to be the top autocross street tire. Supposedly, the 615's are
stickier, hold up better to heat (when autocrossing in hot weather
you'll still need to cool them between rounds by sprinkling water on
them) and are better in the wet. Given the tread pattern (outer half
is close to a slick with only lateral siping) I can't imagine they
are all that good in the rain. I haven't autocrossed them but they
are great on the street.
> It might make a good tech article as I could take pictures of each
> machining operation.
I'd love to see that.
> A customer of mine is right now installing a new Superflo chassis dyno,
> maybe I could do a deal with him also when the time comes.
You can learn a lot on a dyno, things that often fly in the face of
> The lower end of the steering will need to be moved down 2-3" at the firewall
You'll want to measure the bump-steer when you space the rack down.
You may need to make modifications at the tie rod ends to compensate
or, if you get lucky, you may actually improve the bumpsteer with the
Would it be of any help if I dig out my old Kenne Bell tech info on the
> Dan mentioned that he knows of a body dip facility close by
I'll try to get the contact info Wednesday.
|> Dan mentioned that he knows of a body dip facility close by|
This is the place:
Redi-Strip of Evansville
1720 Read St.
Evansville, IN 47710
Dan Payne, Pres.
Lonny said not to confuse Dan's shop with Redi-Strip of Indianoplis which
does not have a good reputation. Lonny has uses Redi-Strip of Evansville
many times and has always been pleased. I believe they use an alkaline
|Thanks Dan, I'll look into the cost in another week or so. That's some good information, as usual. Nothing much to report right now except that I've been inquiring about setting up the organization. We go on vacation next week so I'll probably drop out of sight for awhile.|
|Just got back and I see there are a bunch of interesting threads. Probably take me awhile to get caught up. Anyway, next weekend is still on the schedule as the Roadmaster weekend but I'll also be here to help anyone who is preparing for the British V8 meet, or who would like to stop in on their way there or back.|
|More great news on the engine. I just talked to Dale Spooner (our machinist, Danville, Va.) and he spends his weekends with his girlfriend in Carl's neighborhood, which means that once Allen, Bill and Dan are able to coordinate the transfer of the 455 to me at Florence, I can work with Carl and Dale to get it back to his shop in Va.|
Guys, this is exactly the way this project is supposed to work! We're really getting rolling with it now.
Of course with the British V8 meet coming up in a little over a week all eyes are on that right now and not much will get done on the MGB Roadmaster until after that (for my part, I'm still trying to complete my rollbar for my roadster in time, a very shaky proposition right now) but the following monday (6th) I have it on my calender to call the secretary of state and file papers to incorporate the organization. I just need a name for it. So far the best I've come up with is something on the order of Anglo-American Rodders Historical Society, American British Rodders Historical Society, Big Iron LBC Society and things like that. Nothing really catchy so far, so I need some help on that. The name is all important in terms of our success because of two things. It will help persuade the IRS that we meet their qualifications for a non-profit, and more importantly, it will help persuade larger potential sponsors such as TA, Edelbrock, and others that we are worthy of their investment. So this is a serious need and must be the best choice we can make. Assuming we succeed beyond expectations (and I'm planning most carefully to do just that) there may be other projects in the organization's future, so tying it into the MGB Roadmaster project with the name is probably not an advantage, although if there was a way to tie in Buick and MG I can't see that hurting anything.
A word about the purpose of the organization is probably in order. To bestow a public benefit, our best approach is probably to direct our efforts towards educating the public about the history and potential of these wonderful cars which were the result of British and American cooperation. The public is fast losing awareness that the use of big American V8 engines in small nimble British sports cars was a cottage industry that forever changed the shape of performance cars worldwide, and one which grew in size well beyond the remembrance of most in that generation. It was a phenomenon that has had a profound effect on the world today, and the public should be reminded of it. Due to Buick's involvement, Rover has enabled mankind to explore the far corners of the globe in areas that would have otherwise gone long ignored, and which have contributed greatly to the general welfare of mankind, as only one example of many. Others include a wide and deep racing history as well as the development of some of the finest driver's cars the world has ever seen. There are a number of historians much better qualified than I am to inform us of the intimate details who could be our wellspring of information for this purpose, but at this point we just need a name for the organization so that we can get back to the business of building the car.
I just need help with the words. Please?
|Repost from the MG Experience website:|
I'm starting to think you may actually pull off this non-profit status.
Ever hear of the American Truck Historical Society?
Here ya go:
British-American Hybrid Sports Car Historical Society
This means we will have to be able to educate people about the history of this phenomenon. Seems we will need to start with a list of cars that fall into this category so we can research the history of each make. Here' a few off the top of my head:
British-American Hybrid Sports Cars
I know there are more, so cough 'em up. :)
One of the early hybrid pioneers was Sid Allard. He built and raced cars with Cadillac, Ford and Mopar V8's very early in the hybrid game....and don't forget the Sunbeam Tigers!
I guess we can put our collective thoughts together while sipping on a pint at next weeks get together...I'm sure we can decide on a suitable moniker for this new organization effort.
|British-American Hybrid Sports Car Historical Society |
|Don't forget the Gordon Keeble or the Nash Healey (Healey Nash?). The site of the old Healey factory is only a short walk from my house.|
Also various Bristols not just the Arnolt-Bristol. The other Bristols are more along the lines of the Jensen Interceptor than your typical LBC. However, Bristol still make these hybrids today.
This thread was discussed between 07/04/2007 and 25/07/2007
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical BBS is active now.