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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Hi-torque starter
I have a hi-torque starter installed on my 4 liter Buick, '68 GT project, that I got from TS Imported Automotive. The starter is the 114B. I'm in the process of building a starter heat shield to protect the unit. The design is necessarily complicated by the fact that I need to mount the heat shield at two points: the bolt where the engine mount goes to the block, and the top starter bolt. The tight spaces in this area makes me think that the presence of a heat shield will make it tough when working on the starter, exhaust manifold, or motor mounts. Anyway, if anyone is using this starter on a running car, have you found a heat shield to be necessary? I'd hate to go to the trouble of building the thing if it's a waste of time. Is anyone using one of these starters with the exhaust in close proximity, and I don't see how it can't be, and are you having or not having any heat soak related starting problems?
I'd just as soon move straight on to fitting my exhaust system if a heat shield would be a waste of time. Any thoughts will be appreciated.
|I have an IMI Hi Torque starter fitted and tubular block hugger manifolds on my 1964 mgb roadster.|
I originally had factory cast iron manifolds which run so close to the OE starter that I was concerned, despite there being a heat shield available. The combination of tubular manifolds and the smaller gear reduction starter give plenty of space and I can have the starter off in 10 minutes.
I did make a heatshield using an old engine valley cover gasket to which I neatly soliconed some silver fibreglass based heatshield fabric. It is about 5"x 3 1/2" and I used the 2 long bolts which hold the starter together to retain the shield. It simply comes off with the starter.
If you have RV8 type manifolds I would not bother with a heatshield.
|Ian G Buckley|
|I am using a Weber Mini HY Tork Starter #810164 Hitachi S114-254S S114-254S8K|
On my 75 MGB with block hugger headers and Rover 3.5. I have had it installed for a year now with no heat shield and have so far noticed no trouble at all. I should mention the headers are jet/ceramic coated.
|I don't have the starter you refer to but my first 2000 miles were without a heatshield although I did have wrapped exhausts. The heat damaged two starters before someone told me about heatshields. Since then another 4000 miles with no problems. |
Best solution is RV8 manifolds - fantastic!
Ian, I had thought about using those two through bolts to hold the shield on, but had discarded the idea since in my case I think it'll require some bosses or standoffs on the inside of the shield. Looking back at that now, it wouldn't be as big a deal as having to fiddle with the motor mount bolt when removing the starter.
Bruce, yes, ceramic coating sure is the way to go. No matter what style manifold I go with, they'll definitely be coated.
Hi Marc. Yes, I want to avoid cooked starters for sure. I've heard great reports on the RV8 style, but am loath to cut my inner fenders, but who knows. A lot depends on who I find to build them. Love to do it myself, but don't really want to add a whole extra year or two to the project!
I have the shield half finished at this point, so using the starter through-bolt mounting technique, I think I'll continue on with it, since like Ian says, you can pull it off along with the starter. I've got some of the very thin adhesive backed hi-temp heat resistant fabric that I'm going to stick on the outside of it. My current plan is handbuild tube headers snaked through the gaps, but I can't fully rule out the possibility of going the RV8 route, either.
Thanks for the great first hand experience and ideas.
I would urge you to go down the RV8 route if possible, Iv'e done both, and have regretted not biting the bullet and fitting RV8 headers from day 1 .
I got a very reasonably priced stainless system from MGB hive in England, it actually cost me less than my original mild steel block hugger system, cured most of the underbonnet overheating when at rest, and I dispensed with the starter heatshield.
Not had a problem running without heatshield with block huggers with standard starter.
Ceramic coating is a way which is easier in US (Jetcoat)but available in UK.
Still not happy with cutting holes in shell or wrapping exhaust manifolds.
Would be interested in power gains from RV8's twin exhausts and balance pipes if anyone has data available.
Can you tell me where the solenoid is on your starters?
I have a magnetti marelli starter which is range rover style with the solenoid out to the side when on the motor as opposed to the SD1 which had the solenoid on top. The starter is considerably smaller than the original SD1 but I have not fitted the engine in the car yet. Am I wasting my time or will it fit?
I tried the small magnetti marelli starter on my engine and it would not clear the transmission tunnel. It lacked about one half inch going in, and then you need room for the engine to move. It may work on your installation depending on the mounts you use and the model of your car, but it would not fit in mine without hammering or cutting the tunnel. My engine is installed now with a compact gear reduction starter.
The Range Rover has the solenoid to one side because the front prop shaft hits the bottom mounted solenoid.
My starter is 'vertical'with the solenoid at the bottom. It came from The Engine Centre at Hallam, a suburb of Melbourne 0397964385.
|Ian G Buckley|
I think I'll cut my losses before I even start and go for a gear reduction starter.
|So, with the RV8 headers, is there any problems with the starter at all? I'm getting ready to order RV8 headers this week. I'm looking for the better cooling effect and if it saves me a starter purchase, all the better.|
I have the starter that came on the Rover 3500 doner car and it seems to fit well with the engine in the car. I was told that the block huggers would not pass or be to close with the stock starter.
If your starter fits, you'll have no problems caused by the RV8 headers.
|Those who use the RV8 style headers seem to like them a lot. The arguments are pursuasive; any negative comments on them from anyone? I just reread an old article, circa 1983, about one of the earliest home MGB-V8 swaps, that I know of anyway, done by Jim Stabe of California. He used a Jag rear end, and lowered the steering rack by 1-1/2 inches. To quote: "Due to a lack of space at the sides of the engine, (the headers) routed through the inner fender panels and into a pair of '55 T-Bird mufflers". Obviously, the precedent was well-established, early on. I may be swaying in that direction. Thanks everyone.|
The only caution I have heard is that if you park with the steering on full lock, the RV8 headers will melt your tyres!!
This thread was discussed between 27/06/2002 and 08/07/2002
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