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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Moss coil over front suspension
|A few months ago i acquired an unused Moss coil over conversion kit off of e-bay with the intention of fitting it when the climate improves. I have searched the archives on this product and find differing opinions mainly negative from those who haven't fitted it and positives from those who have. Having examined it thoroughly I would in my opinion say that in some areas the quality is not quite what one would expect especialy where the new top wishbone pivot is secured in the alloy mounts which replaces he old lever arm damper. The pivot has two machined flats and is supposed to be located by two grub screws! of only about 3mm. diameter> I can't see the pivot being retained by these for long with the result that the pivot will start turning inside the allow mounting blocks which would soon wear. My view would be to drill the holes out and cut new threads to take a minimum of 10mm. bolts so that the pivots are properly locked in position. Anyone have any experience with this kit. I must admit i wasn't intending to go the Moss route favouring the Hoyle system but the moss kit came up with a buy it now price of £225.00 less than half price and my finger hit the buy it now button. I also like the Hoyle IRS butall up at £3300.00 if you buy the whole kit it's just too much money. I have looked at the Frontline Costelloe 5 link and coil over system which i feel is a go0od compromise but still not cheap at £1520.oo inc. the vat/ |
Any way enough of my ramblings would be pleased to hear what you think about the front end.
Sounds like you got a good deal. I've had the Moss kit under my '71 GT (w/ Buick 215) since about 1992. I also have an oversize front anti-sway bar and 14"x6" wheels. At the other end I have telescoping shocks, Ford 8.8, and panhard rod. The chassis is quite stiff (full cage) and loud (aluminum interior).
IMHO the shocks seem to be valved about right and the spring rates are about right too. The kit provides a ride that's sporting without being unpleasant. Considering the low cost and effort, and that it's easily reversible, I think you'll be satisfied.
I was a skeptical about the kit when I originally installed it - it certainly doesn't look "engineered" - but to be honest it's performed okay. I've only driven the car about 9000 miles in that time, but no parts have broken or worn noticeably. I slid into a curb once and bent the lower A-channels and the casting they mount to on one side. (They're same as stock.) Luckily, I didn't have to buy replacement kit parts from Moss because I don't think they list them, do they?
I'm no big fan of rebuilt lever-arm shocks... for me the option was to make my own front suspension. If I had had time I probably should have... but if I were doing that I'd have widened the "track" front and rear and put Sebring fenders on. And if you're changing geometry you have to engineer all that too. Big commitment. The more expensive coil-over kits seemed way over-priced, and I was poor. Did they ran appreciably different geometry? At any rate, it was harder to get information on anything back then.
rear shocks have been more of a concern to me. The cheap telescoping kits are dreadful. It helped to swap out the shocks for ones with more appropriate valving - I don't have numbers handy, but they were from a Dodge Colt. Not particularly comfortable, but the car will eat up a mountain road.
|Curtis - Please email me, I would like to talk to you about the Ford 8.8 rear diff you installed....|
I would flog it on ebay and keep to standard set up with uprated levers at front and neg camber.
Doug Smith at MG Motorsport may have solved problems with parabolics re ride height and still use levers, and this is a race set up.
Tim's products should be well engineered but remember he has a lot of grunt to tame. Hoyle option is expensive but works.
|Thats one for, one against I'm fairly sure i'll go ahead and fit it because I like the idea of the superior damping of telescopics which react better to coil springs than lever arms plus the factor that the damping is adjustable as is the ride height so that you can set the car up with the wishbones paralel to the road which I believe helps to maintain correct suspension geometry. My car is a 74 Rubber bumper GT which has had at some stage been fitted with a Ron Hopkinsin upgraded Kit ie lower, much stiffer and has 3/4" front anti roll bar + rear a/r bar. It handles very well but is far to harsh on any but the best road surfaces. My main query is regarding the location of the Moss suspension upper wishbone pivot which is only located by the 2 tiny grub screws and I'd appreciate any comments on this point. Also the kit came with 500lb springs, are these also going to be too stiff.|
Paul, one nice thing about this kit is it doesn't in any way preclude negative camber using the normal (cheap) aftermarket bits.
If you're the sort that negative camber appeals to, you're probably also the sort that might go beyond simply adjusting static ride height and actually set the front corner weights. In other words, you might put bathroom scales under the tires and adjust the coil-overs to evenly apply static load side-to-side. Dialing these in could potentially significantly improve BOTH braking and launches. (When you turn the spring perch to decrease weight on the front-right corner, you're going to see weight proportionately decrease on the rear-left corner, right?)
I find 600lb springs work for GT but 550lb for roadster. The RH kit should have a larger farb. I assume your interested in better handling and the first mod is to ditch RBs and then lower car for CG. Unfortunately lowering car upsets front geometry and also inclines roll axis with more weight transfer to rear. To counter this the rarb is removed, which is good news as rarb take grip away from drive wheels, the neg camber also adds some grip. The basis is for Rear to be soft and front hard. Ideally the rear should be set up first with Hoyle IRS, Tim's set up or parabolics (although wind up is an issue). This then gives the opportunity of adjusting front and "corner weights" for full package. Lowering also improves braking as less weight transfer as well as the most important bit of kit decent sticky tyres.
Try it with the 500 springs. they will not be too far off. I am running 470 springs on my standard roadster and there are people out there using 550.
I understand your concern about the grub screws but they are easily underestimated. It sounds as if curtis gave his quite a clonk and it was the standard parts that gave.
|David Paul and Curtis|
Thanks for your comments,David you appear to be familiar with the grub screws which I find hard to believe will stop the wishbone pivot from turning in the alloy mounting blocks, my concern is that as the car is never going to be a daily driver that the metal part of the wishbone bushes will in time bind on th e pivot putting the grub screws under pressure when the pivot tries to turn. My suggestion was only to beef up the location of the pivot by using larger bolts, does anyone see a problem in doing this?
You say that "I have looked at the Frontline Costello 5 link and coil over system"
I am actively considering this plus their front suspension conversion which comprises Alloy Wishbone & shock absorber mounting units, telescopic gas shock absorbers & mounting brackets.
Other people's views on the Frontline Costello kit would be appreciated.
|Nigel J S Steward|
I know Phil, now in Australia, has tested the demo car and it sticks to road.
I know Tim does a lot of testing to get right balance and a test drive should confirm whether worth spending dosh.
|Total JUNK!!!!! should be taken of the market, I can't believe Moss is selling it again. |
I had my share of problems.
|Have had a Moss coil over under my wife's Gt since 2000. Have put over 94,000 miles on it without a hitch. Performes great and is trouble free. bob thomspon|
|"Total JUNK!!!!! should be taken of the market, I can't believe Moss is selling it again. I had my share of problems"|
"Have had a Moss coil over under my wife's Gt since 2000. Have put over 94,000 miles on it without a hitch. Performes great and is trouble free."
Well, I guess this settles that issue once and for all. Any more questions?
|Thanks Dan, looks like you got the decider in there.|
I'll go ahead and fit the kit with the minor mods just for peace of mind, when the weather gets a bit warmer.
When I said I had looked at the Frontline Costelloe kit I was referring to the 5 link rear conversion.
I have only seen pictures and it looks pretty good.
Spoke to Tim Fenna who said it was developed with Harvey Bailey and tested thoroughly including short take offs over humped back bridges! Very tempted but it will have to wait awhile, when the front suspensions done the next thing on the agenda is a strip and repaint probably in Teal blue like the lhd GT that sits on my computer desktop.
Thanks for your imput.
|I wish when someone tells me that it's total Junk they would be specfic about the problems. I actually own two of them the second one installed but not used. Very well thought out conversion. Bob Thompson|
|I've driven Bob's wife's GT a time or two and ridden in it several times. I like it. Wish I'd picked up a kit back when they were on sale.|
Frontline also have a front kit.
I did see in their ad but had already bought the Moss kit off e bay for £225.00
|I used mine in Solo II events and as daily driver.|
The front end kit from Moss is ok if you drive it like a lady "My wifes car etc." It could not stand the loads of Solo II driving, the top alum blocks did not last, the alingment of the blocks was off causing one of the bolts to brake, the shocks valving is soft and gentle, the shock did not last, just to mention a few.
You can get the same ride from a tube conversion with the right shocks, the original construction is allot stronger. It's a matter of taste and how safe you want to be.
Just look at the construction!!!! A real shade tree design.
Dan, you mention once that the Macpearson strut was a bad design due to the construction etc... What do you think of the Moss front end kit construction compare to other front end kits in the market Dan? Just interested in your input, I am looking for a front end kit for my GT.
I am not bashing Moss Motors, I just was not happy with the front end kit. Moss has good products and bad ones, just like any other business.
Ford and GM have good ones and bad ones too.
|Ford has good products?|
This thread was discussed between 04/02/2005 and 14/02/2005
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical BBS is active now.