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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - weight or size
|If someone was stupid enough(not me :))to put a v8 in a midget, what would be more important,215 because of light weight or 302 ford because of smaller width?|
|215 (Light weight)...|
Unless you're drag racing it. If you want it to corner then forget the V8 and put a K in it. Currently got a 215 in my Midget and it fits fine. More mods required for trans than anything else. Tell you next year what it's like to drive (half finished)
|Yeah for a midget I would agree. Though I am not sure about the weight on the midget motor?? We already know the 302 is right there with the B motor with regards to weight...|
|Yeah, thats about what I thought. I know a twin cam 4 would be better but I shure do like the sound of a v8, nothing like it. I have this spare midget and want to do something different, if it was a MGB I know what I would do, 302 all the way, and i'm a chevy guy!!|
|I've been told of a MG Midget that is here in MN that is running around with a 350 V8. NUTS!|
If you have to have 8, then does Ford have a 302 Aluminium block or not? In another current thread, a fellow was just talking about his 2.8L V6 (you knew I was gonna say it) GM motor transplant in his Midget. I would like to look into the transplants as well for those since I have about 4 extra Spridgets lying around that I wouldnt mind changing a bit... I already have my stock ones.
|BMC Brian McCullough|
|I think Ian has a couple of pictures of my Midget with V8 on his web page www.kseries.com (Stories)|
Its far from being finished although all hard work is done.
|I saw a midget once that was set up for autocross with an RX7 engine. Unbelievably loud. We also bought a Spitfire with a 90 degree Chevy V6. That was too much weight in the front.|
Brian, is there an aluminum V6 that could be used? I would think that would be a nice match if one could be found.
|Ford makes a Alum 5.0, but be warned it is a Racing block, one of the strongest they make, lI think to like the Nascar guys, saves 20-40lbs off stock, but also runs you $3500-3700 before shipping for JUST the block, no rotating assemply. If I ever hit the lotto I will let you guys know more about it! :-P|
|Who runs that block Larry? Obviously the Nascar boys run 5.7L. It sounds great if you can afford one. I guess if my MG is still in good shape if and when my Rover 4.2 craps out some day, I'll try and stuff a 302 in there. (If onna youse guys could come up with a pre-fabbed x-member for the 302, that will make my life a lot easier!)|
|If weight and performance are the issue, with little regard to money spent, why not consider the LS1? They are on EvilBay all the time and have really come down in price within the last 12 months.|
|LS1? Is that the corvette v8? I thought that was a huge 32 valve.|
|Brian McCullough wrote:|
"If you have to have 8, then does Ford have a 302 Aluminium block or not? "
One is available from Ford Motorsports. Can you spell $$$$$$$$ Very expensive.
|ooops! My apologies, Larry, I sent my reply without reading the rest of the responses. Didn't see you had already answered Brian.|
|If a ford aluminum block only saves 20-40 lbs, I don't see a real advantage. If the engine was over the weight of stock engine,20-40 lbs savings with aluminum couldn't make too much of a change in a street car. I guess my point is if your getting close to the weight of the stock engine,thats great, but once you go over the weight of the stock 20-40lbs would not be as important.|
|Pretty neat about that Ford 302 Aluminium block..|
Yes, the GM 60 degree block has the same story. Save about 40 Lbs, costs about $3000+ just for the block, so its not worth it for what most of us do.
Maybe, just maybe the OHV or DOHC 60 degree blocks coming out for 2004 might just be all aluminium. I am in a wait and see mode... :-)
BTW: These new lineup of DOHC will be a whole new design started from paper, the OHV design will be the same old 60 degree as we know it, but bored and stroked bigger- either a 3.6 or 3.9L, dont remember which.
|BMC Brian McCullough|
|Brian McCullough wrote:|
"Maybe, just maybe the OHV or DOHC 60 degree blocks coming out for 2004 might just be all aluminium. I am in a wait and see mode... :-)"
Wait no more! They will be all aluminum. See page 18 of the May issue of Hot Rod magazine for more details.
When I read that, I kinda thought you, Bill Guzman, and Dann Wade just might get excited :) I sure did. Look for a serious growth spurt in the V6 conversion ranks as these engine become available. They'll be available in both FWD and RWD.
According to Hot Rod, "[the engine] easily expands from 2.8L to 3.8L while affording a power range of 200 to 370-plus horsepower."
Holy tire smoke, Batman, that's gonna be some engine line-up!
Still not enough for you? How about an all aluminum replacement block for the Buick 90 degree V6, capable of power levels up to 3000HP? See page 88 of the same magazine. Whew, I have to go and take my medicine now, I'm getting too old for this kind of excitement.
|Stan, the key is with an alum Ford, you are pretty much going ot end up right on stock 4cyl weight, means no penalty (other than a black hole for a wallet) for upgrading to the V8..|
I am not sure who runs them I just know my buddy had seen them before and they come from the factory prepped for racing and are targeted at the racing crowd. I think they even come 100% hones, and bored and ready to bolt up..
I believe that the all new DOHC setup is indefinetly(sp) adjustable Variable cam timing, unlike the Honda which is simply a two position on off switch. Might be worth bubbling the bonnet!
As far as the increase in displacement for the OHV unit, I am hoping to see a bigger bore block more then crankshaft stroke.. I love tech, but dont mind CI either. I think just for the fun of it, if they make a 3.6L OHV motor and it all comes from an increase in bore only, I would consider using a early crankshaft with the latest block for a very high revving animal. This is already possible with a 3.4L block and a 2.8L crankshaft, but I as everybody else, always want more.
As far as that article goes, did it say just the DOHC motors would be all cast aluminium or is the OHV block also going to be all aluminium?????
|BMC Brian McCullough|
|About 4 years ago, while brousing at the Import Show at Carlisle, I ran across an all aluminum 60 deg. block for sale for $1500. The guy selling it was an engine reseller. I guess they are out there, you just have to be lucky to find one.|
For anything that requires luck, you can count me out. If it weren't for bad luck... If I were to luck out and find one, the seller would probably tell me "sorry, I just sold the last one to Bob Fish." :)
The article wasn't as clear as it cold have been, but I gathered that all of the blocks would be aluminum - OHV as well as DOHC.
The valve timing is to be variable within a 50 degree range, and the intake plenum is variable as well.
For folks like you and me (I'm assuming you have a limited budget as I do), saving 20-40 pounds would not be worth a lot of money. For folks runing Indy, NASCAR, NHRA, etc, a mere 0.001 second improvement is worth a bundle of money. For them, $3,500 is chump change. Mere peanuts when you compare it to the $50,000 - $100,000 they spend on a single engine alone.
|<<If someone was stupid enough(not me :))to put a v8 in a midget, what would be more important,215 because of light weight or 302 ford because of smaller width?>>|
The 302 Ford is only one inch narrower than the 215. In this particular case, I would go with the 215 for weight savings AND it would seem to be a better match for the car. Do you really need (or want) a hemi-powered midget?
"Do you really need (or want) a hemi-powered midget?"
What kind of questin is that, Carl? Of course I do :) Check out this web site!
|Carl,do I need a car like this,nope, but do I want a car like this, heck yea!! Seriously, to me there are 2 kinds of power,camy high rpm type that I love, and high torqe brute force type. What I would like to end up with is say a 215 stock,160-180hp with lots of torqe. I'll bet that if guys could get that hp and torqe from a 1275 cc, they would be doing it today. |
btw,I guess one inch narrower is per side,two inches total.
|Fords alum block 302 weight is 92lbs can be bored and stroked out to 380ci it did not have a price.|
Stock 302 production block weight is 135lbs and only can be bored out to 347ci.
SO it is a little more then weight.
Now Ford also has
|Good info Pete!!! The Iron block weighs a bit more than I had expected.. for looking at 47lbs savings which means it is under stock MGB weight. Then the cubes. that 347 is base don a stroker I am pretty sure?? As that is the "big" stroker kit size and 331 is the smaller.. There is a little known 357 or so stroker that can be done with a 302 block and 351C crank, but is a bit of work. BUT, that should be in the 390-400cid range with the alum block, YUMMY!!!|
Also the Alum block from what I was told DONS come ready to bolt up, so no machining needed for stock items to be installed..
|I don't recommend the V8 for a Midget, due to the size and amount of modification required. One of our local club members put a Buick V6 into his midget and it worked pretty well if you didn't mind extreemly narrow footwells. I used to own a Bugeye with a small block Chevy in it. Again the firewall and footwells were cut severly and the handling was pretty bad due to all the weight on the front. For better balance I'd recommend one of the light twin cam fours or a 60 degree V6. |
Check out http://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8_conversions for information on my V6 Midget.
|Managed the 215 in Midget without losiong any footwell room. Engine too is behind and over the crossmember, not in front.....Can't tell you about the handling...Yet!|
|Stuart,you emailed me pictures of your v8 midget a few months ago, how is the project coming along?|
|I still say a Mazda Rotory. Either the big 20A/B or the older 13A/B. the 13 units I bet would be EASY to find as they all like to go to the bigger 20. if yo uREALLY want power, they come turbocharged.. Would be a light little rocket!! and the rotary's are super small..|
|Larry, I know the rotary would be the logical way, but the SOUND, THE SOUND,THE SOUND :) I just can't get past the sound. I think i'm just too old, I love that v8 sound,any of them, all of them.|
|Yeah me to, no arguments... Mine is a bit on the umm GROWLY side heh. My In-laws and Son call it my helicopter car!!|
|Stan Williams, Ga USA |
LS1? Is that the corvette v8? I thought that was a huge 32 valve.
The LT5 is the 32 valve four cam (DOHC) 350 put in the ZR1 Corvettes. The LS1 is a 346ci all aluminum totally new designed push rod 16 valve cam in block V8 that was first seen in production with the 1997 Corvette (C5).
|I've seen two Spridgets with 215's in them. One was a Bugeye rotting in a garage here in Jacksonville that I bought the motor from. The other, a Midget, belonged to Roy Morris at British American Motors in Vero Beach who brought it to our local club's show. It had a Rover 3.5 with a TH 350 and, I believe, a Ford 9" with a spool. It was a 1/4 mile only car that he claimed was too slow due to excessive wheel spin. Lots of engine bay mods, of course. Stan, I agree with you on the ugly sound that a rotary makes. Just god-awful. Those 4 rotor Mazda/Kudzus that ran at Daytona actually made me nauseous when I stood next to the fence. Really fast, though.|
This thread was discussed between 10/06/2003 and 18/06/2003
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical BBS is active now.