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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB Technical - Brake cylinders

Fitted a pair of wheel cylinders last year as the old ones had been on for about ten years and would seize up over the winter lay up. Recently removed the brake one side to withdraw the half shaft to fit an anti clunk kit. To my surprise the one year old brake cylinder is leaking. Haven’t looked at the other side yet. Where do they get this rubbish from. Where can I get some decent ones from.
Trevor Harvey

Moss offer two types, an aftermarket one and, presumably, an OE spec. Only a coup,e of pounds price difference.

It might be worth giving them a call and asking what brand the more expensive one is.
Dave O'Neill 2

Thanks for that Dave, Has anyone tried the Quinton Hazel brand or Borg And Beck, as most from the usual suspects have no manufacturers names on, suppose their Indian or Chinese.
Trevor Harvey

Trevor,
I've found anything that involves rubber has potential to be piss-poor (or pissing in this case).

These places have been recommended by others (but I've yet the need to try them) -

Power Track Ltd - http://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk/

Coastings Ltd - http://www.coastings.co.uk/

Past Parts - http://www.pastparts.co.uk/
Nigel Atkins

Found some Borg and Beck ones online at reasonable price, anyone know regarding the quality.
Trevor Harvey

I think B&B are just one of the the brands in Firstline’s portfolio. I can’t vouch for their quality.

I’d be tempted to go for Delphi, if I could find them.
Dave O'Neill 2

Try North West Automotive Hydraulics.
Peter stocks lots of OE Lockheed and Girling components.
Allan Reeling

David's right B&B are one of Firstline's.

Don't get too hooked up on old names as often that's all they are, names from the past which are bought and sold by companies taking their products far from their origins.

I can't remember the detail Mike Woods put up but something about the company having a number (something like 930, but not).
Nigel Atkins

920 Engineering.
Dave O'Neill 2

MGOC Spares appear to sell Delphi Lockheed.

And don't forget Andy Tilney's trick for easy fitting of the E-clip.

ETA: thanks Dave, 930 was real close for me but I got stuck on 912 (the now forgiven Porsche, fickle Posche buggers).
Nigel Atkins

Had the same short life myself - with Leacy's counter man saying "They don't last like they used to", and the same with clutch slaves. Opted for the significantly more expensive 'OE' version of that and it had the same short life.

I don't think the seals are the correct size for the bore. Decades ago I changed the seals on Mini wheel cylinders and had a devil of a job getting the pistons back in even with brake fluid as a lubricant. On these the pistons push back in far too easily.

On fitting the E-clip a pair of outside circlip pliers makes it a doddle. Even with these straight pliers, angled would be even easier.



paulh4

I think you are right Paul these pistons slip in the bores far to easily,I have managed to find a pair of Delphi cylinders on eBay of all places had no luck on MGOC even though they do advertise them for midget. Hope these are a better made item.
Trevor Harvey

I started using silicon DOT 5 fluid in the Midget when it was stored while I was living overseas. Prior to the conversion, I would drive the car for two weeks or so every 6 months and the brakes required work every time I used it. Even though the car was stored in a dry desert location, the wheel cylinders would leak and show rust at the lowest point in the system.

A proper DOT 5 replacement does require replacement of the wheel cylinders, hoses, calipers and O-rings in the brake failure switch.

The pedal is slightly spongy but I have not serviced the hydraulics in 20 years of service. It is still all too easy to lock up the brakes in a panic stop.
Glenn Mallory

Strange, MGOC Spare are selling both GWC1122 and GWC1103 Delphi on eBay at the moment.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253552513193

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253552513287
Nigel Atkins

I phoned MGOC to inquire what brands they had and was told they did not have time to go and look.
How can I find out what this tip is from Andy Tilley to fit the E clip.
Trevor Harvey

Here, but I removed the drawing as I'd put the clip the wrong way round in the drawing but no one noticed or didn't tell me if they did.

It's a lot easier to do than for me to explain it, but here it is.


How to easily fit the E-clip

• remove the bleed nipple from the brake cylinder

• find a (pan head) machine screw to fit where the bleed nipple goes into the brake cylinder

• use the (pan head) machine screw to secure the brake cylinder to its position on the brake backplate - but not tightly, *see later

- (or find any method to hold the cylinder in position without damaging the backplate,
perhaps a clamp)

• you now have the brake cylinder in position with both hands free

• use a suitable flat blade screwdriver to fit the E-clip (concave side of clip to backplate see illustration below)

• get the tangs fitted *then place the blade of the screwdriver behind the E-clip to check for a bit of give

• place the blade of the screwdriver between the cylinder and the backplate (looking at the cylinder drum side) and gently prize the cylinder to flex the E-clip, if it’s in correctly you will feel it trying to retract, if it’s not it will fly off.

The next bit I think still applies to you but you'd need to check -

The original Belleville washer and circlip are available from AH Spares Ltd - http://www.ahspares.co.uk/
o XBRK182C (circlip)
o XBRK182W (Belleville washer).
Nigel Atkins

I think I've got the drawing correct now (Paul?) but see Paul's photo earlier.




Nigel Atkins

"I phoned MGOC to inquire what brands they had and was told they did not have time to go and look"

I'll bear that in mind when buying parts in future!
Dave O'Neill 2

I rarely do use them. The bloke that always seemed to answer the phone was a miserable git, sounds like he still is. The web site is rubbish compared to the other major players, I only get stuff from that as a last resort. Some time ago I heard from the inside that the spares organisation were a law unto themselves and they were at daggers-drawn with other parts of the club.

You have the clip the same way round as I fit them, Nigel, but others have said that is the wrong way. In which case the factory fitted them the wrong way round going by the cars at Gaydon.

The MGOC sells a tool that screws into the brake pipe port, which only appeared sometime after I published info on my home-brew tool ... another coincidence. But that was before I realised it was far easier with the circlip pliers, which unlike the special tool can be used for other things ... like circlips.
paulh4

Nigel

Your instructions say to fit the clip concave side to the backplate, but the illustration shows convex side to backplate.

Here are the fitting instructions included with the Lockheed tool, which state concave to backplate.

(Thanks to Richard Boobier for the instructions).


Dave O'Neill 2

ETA: just seen your post Paul so it's another item of debate but didn't the factory use the Belleville washer and circlip on the Bs then?

Dave,
I thought I'd corrected my drawing to be concave side to backplate, I honestly struggle with things like this, I thought Paul had it correct with his photo or is that wrong?

Have I got the ar*e-about-face ar*e about face?

Richard sent me a copy of those instructions and I marked it up but on seeing Paul's photo I thought I had it wrong.

Is image 1 (top) here wrong?

And image 2 (lower) here, note added red marks, correct?

If you held a shotgun to my head in two minutes time I wouldn't be sure which way they're supposed to go or remember what I'd decided (right or wrong), I often mix up left/right, up/down, near/off-side, etc..






Nigel Atkins

Paul,
I bought a version of that tool and experimented with it and found it worked better with the E-clip one way round rather the other, as per illustration on instructions (IIRC ?!?).

In the end I never even used the tool, another £22 donated to some of my very, very 'good friends' at Moss.
Nigel Atkins

Dave - that's the first time I have seen any 'official' method, which is different to Gaydon's 'divorce' model attached.

It still seems neater and more logical to me to have the convex side facing the backplate, although with that tool maybe the concave side does work better.

Nigel - possibly very early on but only the E-clip shown in my Parts catalogue.


paulh4

Yes, thinking about it I think I was told before it was earlier cars Spridgets and Bs (not that'll remember this time).

I've witnessed Anday do his method in under three seconds with his eyes shut, even I can do it in under 5 seconds with my good eye shut.
Nigel Atkins

Took me about a half hour a side to get the lips on. Found some Delphi Lockheed ones on eBay, boxed and evidently made in Italy. So hopefully better quality than some and only a little more expensive than cheaper ones. Thanks all for your help.
Trevor Harvey

I can honestly say that the tool the guys noted the instructions for above, was without doubt the worst tool I have ever owned !!

I previously offered it for free to anyone who collected it - the cone that the hardened spring clip is supposed to slide up seems to be made of soft cheese - the clip just dug its self into it and never made it to the cylinder.
Maybe it was operator error but in the end ISTR using the screwdriver method (with safety glasses !)

R.
richard b

I’ve used mine successfully on several occasions. The only time I did have a problem, was when using cheap aftermarket cylinders and the clips spread, but didn’t spring back.
Dave O'Neill 2

There is a youtube video where someone said the clips dig into the cone but that showed the clips being fitted the other way round to the document. As said before I can imagine that tool works better with the concave face against the back-plate, but the tabs don't fully go in and pop out all to easily, unlike convex facing.





paulh4

This thread was discussed between 26/09/2020 and 14/10/2020

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