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MG MGB Technical - Brake lines installation and Castrol LMA

I am starting the process of installing a complete braking system for a '72. I noticed that the brake lines being removed have the 'bubble' flare outwards and the new Moss provided copper alloy pipes have a flare inward. I am guessing that when tightening the brass nut the flare will form itself outward to the new shape, correct? I don't see how but I guess it does. What's anyones guess on the torque needed to secure the lines? I don't want to start stripping threads but don't want leaks either. Also, Castrol LMA seems to be the best choice for my driving and maintenance habits. Any there any national chains that carry it?
Thanks for the help, Scott(MGA w/215 & B suspension and brakes)
Scott

The flare on all the tubes I have seen on my B, as well as a few other Bs, is the double flare which has a concave flaring. The amount of torque you will need has a lot of variables such as the material (copper or steel) and how the 2nd flare was formed. If you never bent and flared lines on a car yourself you may not 'get' what I just said. Use as much torque is needed to seal the lines and use a 'good' line/flare wrench such as Craftsman or Snapon. Those Chinese made wrenches are horrible.
Mike MaGee

Scott - You may have to look at some of the better local auto parts houses to find Castrol LMA, I looked at two places here (NAPA and Schucks/Kragen/Checker) and neither carried Castrol. You can get it from Moss Motors or Brit-Tek. You can also use whatever DOT 4 is carried by a reputable auto parts house. All DOT 4 is, by definition LMA. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

Scott: it sounds like the new lines you are describing are normal American brake lines, if they are, they are not compatible with your othe brake parts [MC, wheel cyl.etc]without the use of adaptors.As the correct brake lines are readily available in most auto parts stores get the correct ones, in the end it will work better and cost less. RIC
PS my local NAPA stocks castrol, try yours.
R E L Lloyd

Scott,

I believe that Pep Boys carries Castrol. If not, Call Bob at Brit Tek (800) 255-5883.
Don't use anything but Castrol, regardless of what anyone says.
Steve Lipofsky

MGBs are supposed to have BUBBLE flares, not double flares. I've found the right ones at Pep Boys and Autozone, labelled, ironically enough as 'British' style brake lines. An ISO bubble flare is a European or Asian type of flare most often used in metric sizes anymore; the Brit brakelines mentioned above are simply the right kind of flare on SAE sized pipes. If they are there the counter guy may very well not know it, I went back and looked myself. If you can't find the right ones, you can make your own with an ISO bubble flare tool.
Wade Keene

Castrol just dissapeared from the shelves of the auto parts house that I use. It seems that Castrol is pricing themselves out of business, with much higher prices than other DOT 4 brake fluids.

I must respectfully dissagree with Steve Lipofsky regarding using only Castrol. There is nothing magical about Castrol, DOT 4 is DOT 4 regardless of who makes or markets it. All brake fluids sold in the US are required to meet DOT specifications in order to call themselves DOT 3, DOT 4 or DOT 5 regardless of where they are made and must be compatible with all materials used in brake systems of vehicles sold in the US, including natural rubber.

Federal Standard #116 sets the requirements for all brake fluids and mandates that they be compatible with all materials in braking systems. You can read this standard yourself at the following web site:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=571&SECTION=116&TYPE=TEXT
Until someone can show me in writing from an official government specification or from a SAE test standard that that DOT 3, 4, or 5 made by a given manufacture is different from that made by Castrol or AP Lockheed (the other brake fluid that is supposed to be the "only one used in British brake systems"), I will continue to maintain that they will all do the job adequately and continue to use what is marked as DOT 4 or DOT 5 (my two choices), regardless of manufacture (doing this, I have never run into any problem with my braking systems). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

I must respectfully disagree with Dave.

I've driven MGBs or GTs exclusively as my daily drivers since 1972. In that time, I've seen many, many instances of non Castrol brake fluid causing premature failure of brake rubber.

I don't look at the price of Castrol. At any price, it's cheaper than failed brakes in terms of money and safety.

Many MG owners these days don't put much mileage on their MGs and therefore, may not see the consequences of maintenance mistakes right away. I drive my '73 'BGT every day, including extended trips, and wouldn't trust any brake fluid but Castrol. It's never failed me.

In my opinion, it's a serious mistake to use anything else, regardless of the theoretical rationale.

Steve Lipofsky
Steve Lipofsky

My 68 owners manual on page 32 reads; "Use only Lockheed Disc Brake Fluid (Series 329) or Castrol Girling Brake Fluid Amber for topping up". My 74 owners manual reads: "Use only Lockheed Disc Brake Fluid (Series 329) or Castrol Girling Brake Fluid; alternatively, use a brake fluid conforming to F.M.V. S.S. D.O.T.3 specification with a minimum boiling-point of 260 degrees C. (500 degrees F.)

Both master cylinders have been replaced at some point with Lockheed cylinders. The reservoir caps read. USE ONLY DOT 3 FLUID FROM a SEALED CONTAINER.

Yes, I like Castrol LMA and have used it in many cars during the past 20 years. Never had a problem with it but on the other hand I have not noticed any improvement in brake performance when upgrading to Castrol LMA.

My point is not to say Castrol LMA is a poor choice, in fact it is an excellent choice. MG did state in their later chrome bumper owners manual that DOT 3 fluid is acceptable and on the reservoir caps they specify the use of DOT 3 brake fluid. I have never seen documentation in any MG/BL publication stating that DOT 3 brake fluid should not be use in MG's.

FWIW, Clifton


Clifton Gordon

As a former 1960 MGA-1600, 1969 MG midget, 1970 MG MIDGET, & 1970 AUSTIN AMERICA (BL FWD 1300) owner/mechanic SINCE 1962, I have a bit to add here! In the "BAD OLD DAYS" the U.K. used NATURAL RUBBER SEALS in brake & clutch parts ( Lots of RUBBER in the "British Empire" & later the "Commonwealth"!); while in the USA we used only SYNTHETIC RUBBER. If you used ONLY U.S. MADE PARTS in your brake & clutch "REBUILDS", you had no problems. Regular old DOT-3 U.S. SPEC Brake Fluid was OK. (DOT-4 hadn't been invented yet!). But MOST of us would occasionally acquire U.K. SOURCE RUBBER PARTS, and the U.S. SPEC Brake Fluid would "ATTACK" THE NATURAL RUBBER, so that 6-11 MONTHES LATER YOU HAD "NO BRAKES" OR "NO CLUTCH"! The recommended "CASTROL" & "U.K. LOCKHEED (329)" was a "MUST" to stay SAFE and it also worked fine with the US SYNTHETIC RUBBERS! Unfortunately, there was ALSO a "U.S. LOCKHEED BRAKE FLUID" (NOT 329!) sold here that gave U.K. RUBBERS fits! The U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (D.O.T.) eventually came up with a FEDERAL D.O.T. SPEC & LABEL (forget the number!) for ALL BRAKE RUBBERS ALLOWED TO BE SOLD IN THE U.S., essentially MANDATING "SYNTHETIC RUBBER" on brake & clutch rubbers sold in the U.S. ; and us old-timers heaved a huge sigh of relief. BUT IT AIN'T OVER 'TIL THE FAT LADY SINGS & SHE AIN"T A-SINGIN! Last I heard it we were having a NEW PROBLEM, today, with "COUNTERFEIT" SYNTHETIC RUBBER PARTS IN "FAKE" D.O.T.-SPEC BOXES coming out of the Far East where they STILL have a lot of "NATURAL RUBBER" and are not about to change just to save a few American lives! So, I'd STILL use the "RECOMMENDED STUFF"! I believe that DOT-4 would be OK, and think its ALL "LOW MOISTURE ACTIVITY" (LMA). The FIRST of the DOT-4 came from "CASTROL" when NONE of the U.S. fluids were DOT-4. Sorry to ramble on like this, but BRAKES & CLUTCHES ARE KINDA' IMPORTANT!
H. Watts

This thread was discussed between 06/12/2003 and 20/12/2003

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