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MG MGB Technical - Camber settings

Hi all, went to have the toe in re-set today (which made a large difference in the way the car behaves - for the better) but the machine measured a +0.10 camber on the front left wheel (which seems very acceptable) but +1.00 camber on the front right wheel.
I know that camber can't be 'adjusted' on a MGB, so I have two questions:
1) what can cause this???
2) how can I solve it?

Thanks for your responses!

Alex
Alexander M

It sounds like something could be bent or worn out. I would check the upper fulcrum pin and bushings and possibly trunnion as well as the lower wishbone pivot for damage or wear. Another possibilty could be that the crossmember is bent. A goog front end shop should be able to find these things for you.
John

Check your shock arms. The have been known to bend.
R. L Carleen

RL,

Thanks for the advice but the shocks have just been replaced with MGOC uprated ones...

John,

My first ideas go towards the crossmember or the triangles that support the springs (those are attached to the crossmember).Is there any way I can check these things without taking them off? (this winter, the engine/box already need to come out (clutch replacement) so there's already lots to do!)

Alex

Alexander M

You can visually check the condition of the rubber bushings in the lower A frame by removing the nut and washer from each end of the pivot bar and seeing if the bar is centered in the A frame bushing housing. Most likely it will be worn and be off center. The same goes for the upper bushing at the shock arm. These bushings wear rapidly and I favor replacement with polyurethane bushings for long life. The lower trunion bushing does wear, but not nearly as easily. This can be checked by jacking the car and resting the A frame on an axle stand. Then take the wheel at top and bottom and push/pull and check for any movement. There may be some in the bearings, but not much. If you have to replace any of these bushings I advise doing so before the engine in removed, as the engine weight makes it much easier to compress the springs when removing and re-installing.
Bill Young

According to my MGB shop manual your camber readings are in tolerance. Manual reads, "Camber angle Nominal 1 degree positive (+1/4 degrees,-1 1/4 degrees)= 1 1/4 degrees positive, 1/4 degrees negative. unladen

I realize they should be approximately equal. I assume the wide tolerances were used to reduce warranty claims due to tolerance stacking during assembly. Wide tolerances are still with us on cars that have non adjustable camber. Sadly, excessive tire wear is also still with us if the tolerances are at or near the limits. Most wear problems will make the camber more negative.

FWIW, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Alex did the people checking the camber check the hights of the car first,some dont and if the car is slightly down on one side it will give a higher +camb. on that side. One (1*) is the standard setting for an early B so it is actually within tolerance. Denis
DENIS

Alex A follow up on my previous thread. In some countries cars are set up to allow for the camber of the road and sometimes the weight of the driver. If you think about it both these things would help correct your problem being LHD. Crysler did this in Aus back in the 70s. If your tyres are wearing ok its not far out enough to worry about. Denis
DENIS

The other thing that springs to mind is that camber was very often deliberately set different each side to improve straight line stability. It was intended to reduce wander if for example you ran along tram lines (no we Scots don't still have trams) If your lower arm bushes are OK and the car hasn't hit an obstruction hard on that side I would be inclined to ignore it as it is within spec. However if your car has a tendency to pull to one side with hands off the steering wheel and on a flat road then that needs further investigation.
Iain MacKintosh

Also understand that the car was designed for narrow bias ply tires. for better handling you may want to investigate going to 1/2 to 1 degree negative to increase front tire bite.

I realize it's that it deviates from the design values. But unless you're running skinny bias ply tires....

The most traditional way to change camber on the B is to weld a plug in the lower trunion thru-bolt hole on the lower A-arm and re-drill the hole further from the inboard pivot (for more negative camber- closer for more positive.) Without knowing the relative location of you're upper and lower A-arms (it's been years since I looked at a stock (not lowered) MGB front end), I seem to remember about 1/4" being the rigt number for, IIRC 3/4 degree change in camber.
greg fast

Wow!!!

Thank you all very much for the responses!!!

Denis,

Although cars in Belgium are generally LHD, mine is RHD...
My car is however lower at the right side, so that could explain!!! That's another matter I've been wanting to solve for a long time, but new springs, shocks, poly bushes, ... didn't solve that.
So perhaps I really should start looking into the bent crossmember/triangle thing.

Bill,

I will check the bushes this weekend! (they are yellow PU already, but I've seen that some already seem to have small rips...)

Now, if you allow me to hijack my own thread here, the reason I went to have the toe in set:
the car had developed a tendency to shudder at low speeds (below say 10 mph) when braking. One shock proved to be leaking, so both front shocks were swapped for uprated ones (MGOC).
The shudder still remained.

So I had the toe in set and the guy at the shop also balanced the front wheels again just to make sure.
There seems to be no play in the steering rack, at least no excessive play (that's what my mechanic confirmed).
The wheels are new wire wheels, the splines on the hubs are still very good. There are recon calipers, now brake pads and a while ago, the discs were changed for new ones as well.

Most of the shuddering's gone now, but it still appears slightly sometimes, and the knocking sound I get when driving on one of the humps of the not so smooth roads isn't gone (I thought that was caused by the bad shock as well).

The reason I write all this: perhaps these things have the same cause?

Alex, very grateful for the support you've already given me!
Alexander M

Some braking shudder can be caused by a warped rotor (disk), wheel balance, tire out of round, or lack of caster. As the caster is fixed on most MG's and the solid rotors are not prone to warping I'd try swapping the front and rear wheels just to see how the car responds.
Bill Young

*UPDATE*

The cause for the shudder has been found: we installed new silent blocks (engine-body) when we installed the new engine, but as they have 'settled' now, they allow the engine to move forward under braking. When that happens, the sump touches the crossmember, and that's what causes the noise/shaking. All bushes appear to be fine.
So I'll be looking for uprated engine mounts.

However, this still doesn't explain why the right front wheel has 1 camber...
Suggestions?

Thanks for all your answers!

Alex
Alexander M

Moss offers negative camber A-arma. I installed them and have liked the results. Also, Prather Racing (at http://www.networksplus.net/kprather/ ) has adjustable bushes for the B.

Dean
Dean Lake

Alex

The lean is probably clue and if you can make a simple
camber guage, you can then using a jack level car and check the effect on camber.

The answer will probably be a means of adjusting camber and Tim Fenna at Frontline has this on front set up for B and worth a call to see if available seperatly.

Paul
Paul

This thread was discussed between 03/11/2004 and 06/11/2004

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