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MG MGB Technical - Carpet installation nightmare

Hello again everyone. I am going through hell right now. I am doing a new carpet in my B, and I just can't get a break. The most problems I am having is with the sill covers. Ya, I understand that pieces need to be cut and fit, and I have done that with the arches etc... First, I installed a "top of the line" carpet and I am truly disappointed with the quality. Yes, I will talk to the retailer. I decided to rip out the sill covers as this looked downright nasty. I bought the $80 rubber ones which I really liked out of the box. Here is my hell.... I went to glue them in and they curled from the glue. My heart nearly dropped to the floor. There is no amount of pressure that will keep the rubber from curling. How is everyone doing this? I know it is being done successfully, but how? What kind of glue? Yes, I will also speak with the retailer to find out if I have some recourse. They did not come with any installation instructions or recommendations for adherance. Please help!!! Thanks.
Brian Johnson

Brian,
I will follow this thread because I will be going through the same thing shortly.

Regarding the carpet - I have not bought mine yet. If you don't mind, would you tell me where you bought yours? You may want to email me directly to keep it out of the BBS.

Regarding the rubber sill covers - I recall reading somewhere (perhaps in a previous thread) that the backs need to be cleaned with acetone and contact cement used. You might want to do a test spot with the acetone as it is pretty powerful stuff. Of course, be sure of positioning when using the contact cement. Some kind of spacer or wax paper can be used to prevent premature adhesion. But once it sticks, it's stuck.

Best of luck. Spring is just around the corner.
Jim
James Milavec

Thanks Jim. I did not hear about the acetone. I used contact cement, but I doubt even a good acetone cleaning would prevent the rubber from curling. As the cement cured, it tightened and caused the rubber to curl. I'll post a picture.
Brian Johnson

Brian,

I also just bought my carpet kit. I purchased an OE (original style) from Victoria British in Lenexa Kansas. I am pleased with the quality of the carpet. I also received instructions with my kit, but they look pretty basic. I have not installed my carpet kit yet. All the links and postings are telling state that it is not that difficult. I will be watching this thread with interest. Good Luck!!

Michael
Michael Cheek

Find a 3M product called "Fast Tack". It is designed to hold various materials such as cloth and rubber to metal surfaces. Originally it was designed for glueing seat fabrics to metal frames. It is very strong.

Since you have already used contact cement, you will want to either remove it or let it dry completely before using any other type of adhesive. The best is to remove it, but I doubt you will get the rubber off the sills without damaging it. Therefore, I would let it dry, then chip off any that you can safely. Then use the Fast Tack. Good luck!
Steve Simmons

Here's a picture of the problem I am faced with.

http://www.geocities.com/beejay1969/sillcover.html

Keep the ideas coming! I appreciate the help. I used 3M #90 on the other pieces, but thought the contact adhesive would be best. I actually saw it recommended on this board. If Kim De Bourbon is out there, she has done it....
Brian Johnson

Brian,

Looks like you do indeed have a disappointment on your hands. I would guess that glueing carpet down is easier than rubber. I did my B 3 years ago (I bought the kit from a suppier near Toronto) and I found that when I let the contact cement set up for at least 30 minutes, the results were much better. I also made sure that the temperature in the garage was reasonably warm. If you screwed up your carpet sills, you might want to take a piece with you to a carpet store and see if they can match it for you (or close enough) the sills will be much nicer if you carpet them as opposed to rubber. Good luck with your project, hope it works out for you.

Harry.
H. Scanlan.

wow thats a whole lot of cement there... Ok uh Brian have you tried laying a 2x4 over it to help hold it down while the cement cures? You can lay the 2x4 against the sill and clamp it in place gently long enough for it dry, and then do the same for the other side of the sill. That might help hold it in place long enough for it dry without curling. I did something similar to this before with a 1x2 on a mustang's trunk liner so it should work here.
CJD Dark

I just used Evo Stick contact adhesive , took about 1 hour/side and they look great and have lasted about 10 years .
I offered them up first and had to relocate the seat belt bolt hole otherwise one of the easier jobs.
S Best

How did you prep the rubber? Did you prep the metal? Did you have to apply constant, uniform pressure along the mat as the cement cured? Do they sell this Evo Stick or similar product over here? I am speaking with body shops now to ask their advice. Thanks.
Brian Johnson

Brian;

Wow, that is not a pretty sight.

Ok, some things to think about.

1) Did you let the contact cement dry on both the sill and the sill cover before sticking on the cover? Contact cement needs to feel dry to the touch in order to work.

2) I would strongly recommend that you wipe down the rubber surface with acetone (try a small area first to make sure there are no damage issues) as you need to remove the mold release wax from the rubber surface. One of the ingredients in the rubber mix is a wax that will help release the part from the mold and that is why there is typically a "film" on the rubber. This has to be removed or else once the contact cement sets up, it will just pull this surface film off the rubber. I would recommend wiping down the sills with acetone also.

3) That is a lot of cement you have on both pieces. You only need to apply a thin film on both pieces. This is definitely a case where more is worse. If the contact cement film is too thick, the surface can feel dry to the touch, but is still liquid underneath.

4) Read the ingredients on your contact cement, there may be an incompatability problem with the rubber. The carrying solvent for the cement can be a variety of hydrocarbon compounds and some are more aggressive about attacking rubber than others.

5) Another thing to consider is to scuff up both surfaces with 120 grit sandpaper, clean thoroughly, and then apply the cement. The rubber pieces may be too slick, even after cleaning, due to coming out of a very smooth mold. Roughing up the surface provides "bite" for the glue.
Ron Kluwe

I think I would clean them up as best as possible, and, if you wish to attempt to put these same covers down a second time, I would choose a very different glue. The solvents in this glue appear to be causing your problem, and the real culprit is most likely the solvents used, either in the glue itself or for cleaning the surfaces. Also, I think I would lay these pieces out in the sun (if you have that option) for a few days before attempting a reinstall, just let the sunlight and heat drive out any remaining solvents in the sill cover material.

The particular glue that Steve Simmons has mentioned would likely be a good one as most of their products are intended for the usual choices of materials that automakers use. However, it would not be the first time in my experience that an aftermarket parts maker made a blunder in the materials chosen for making a replacement part. It is possible that their considerations dealt more with manufacturing ease and what they thought would produce a superior appearance than compatibility with the various glues out there in the real world. A remote possibility perhaps, but blunders do happen.
Bob Muenchausen

I left the original paint on the sills , cleaned them with white spirit , did nothing to the rubber . I had a few dry dummy runs , then put the contact adhesive on both let it dry for the specified time and the fed the rubber onto the metal starting at one end . I think I started at the firewall as it is straight run from there and I preferred to fiddle the bit where it starts to swell over the rear wheel arch as the last job. It's a long time ago, but I think I attached the top first and then folded it over to contact the side once I had the entire top nicley aligned to the door closing line. That was it , I have not had to touch them since I stood up as the last bit contacted .Hope this helps , I must have been lucky, I would be pleased to send you a picture of the result
S Best

I installed a rubber sill cover a while back and I think I used Liquid Nails. Its panel adhesive from Home Depot. It also worked well in the engine compartment for the hood insulation.
Bob Ekstrand

I used the 3M spray trim adhesive, which is made just for these kinds of applications. A light coat on the sill, a light coat on the rubber piece. Let set just a little, then put the rubber on the sill, starting in the back (behind the seat).

Wasn't a bit of problem.

For what it's worth -- and don't know how this applies to your case, Brian, since you've already got contact cement down -- I always opt for the lightest possible adhesive. Goal is to find something that will hold it down properly, but not be impossible to pull the piece up someday down the road without resorting to a blowtorch or something.

The 3M adhesive I used was perfect. It's holding the rubber down fine, yet when I installed it, wasn't so "instantly bonding" that I couldn't make minor adjustments as I put it in.

Liquid Nails is WAY overkill, in my opinion. Someday, someone may want to replace the rubber, and then you'll need an air chisel to get that stuff off.
Kim de B

The two most common reasons that contact cement fails is too much and too fast. Put too much in place, the stuff dries on the surface and not under, so when you put the material to be glued together, the still soft contact cement fails. The very same thing happens if you stick the items together too soon, for the same reasons. Use only a thin film on both pieces and wait till it is no longer tacky before putting the two surfaces together. You will be thinking "Man I've waited too long, this will never stick" but it will.
gerry masterman

Thank you all very much for all the great advice. Prepping the materials and using the proper glue is the key to this project. The main problem I had was how the rubber curled after the glue was applied. It is good to hear what other people have used with success. I prefer to have the rubber set down permanantly, like the factory, but I also want to use a well proven method. I went to an auto body supply shop and they sold me the 3M trim adhesive. I used the 3M high stregnth spray on the rear arches to some disappointment, but not a total failure. I guess I was expecting "HIGH STRENGTH". Oh well, such is the aftermarket, environmentally safe products today. Well, down to the basement and try again!! Thanks.
Brian Johnson

Refer to new thread title "Rubber sill mat success".
Brian Johnson

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2004 and 27/03/2004

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