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MG MGB Technical - cell phone charger

Anybody know what happens if you plug a cell phone car charger into a cigar lighter on a positive ground car?
Fred Horstmeyer

No, but why don't you try it and let us all know the result!
.

What a surprise that a sophmoric attempt at humor would eminate from a mean spirited little weasel who is choosing to cower behind his anonymity!

Fred Horstmeyer

C'mon Fred lighten up...you knew that was going to happen.
william fox

Yep!! Whatever someone writes is totally baseless and means absolutely nothing if they are not willing to sign their name. Don't waste our time.
Dennis - Sacramento
Dennis & Pat Rainey

Fred - The worst case senerio is that the charger and phone go up in smoke. Best case nothing happens, not even charging. Which will happen all depends on how idiot proof the phone and charger have been made. I would suggest either converting the car to negative ground or put in a special plug for charging the phone (I did that so I could run an inverter to charge our laptop while traveling). Putting in a special plug has the advantage of being wired to any polarity you want it to be.
Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

I suppose you can also chage the wires on the plug to that neg is pos and so on.
Luis

I'm with David -- put in a special plug. I was going to suggest that you just reverse the wires to the cigar lighter and then insulate the lighter body (behind the console) with some liquid electrical tape, but then I remembered that doing so would leave you with a "hot" chrome ring on the front of the console where the lighter pushes in ... and there's no way I can see having you do that! Of course Luis's suggestion would work fine if you only use the charger in your MG and not in your other cars.
Ted

The "special plug" could be made to fit into the cigar lighter itself, as an extension cord (with polarity reversed, of course) if you want to retain original appearance. However, it might be worth trying a variation on the "try it & see": i.e. just plug in the charger, without the phone, and check the polarity on the charger output. If it's the same as in a standard outlet, then it shouldn't damage the phone. Then you could proceed to plug in the phone, drawing power, and see if the charger holds up. At worst, it's a new charger, most of which are pretty cheap.
Kevin Kelleher

That was not me above.
Were you planning on talking while motoring? I would suggest a hands free setup with an additional plugin voltage source added - correctly wired for your phones needs.
I hope you weren't planning on driving while using the phone.
.

I fully understand the wisdom of doing so, and I do it myself, but when you think about it, doesn't it seem an odd juxtaposition of technologies: carrying a cellphone while driving a car that has user servicable parts? We all laughed at Maxwell Smart with his shoe phone in his Alpine, yet there we are.
Marvin Deupree

If simply switching wires around would work, why would you need an inverter for a stereo.I'm going to try it out with a voltage tester to check polarity and voltage.
Fred Horstmeyer

Fred - Just switching the wires around is not a good idea. To do so, you have to isolate the unit (cigar lighter or stereo from ground and that makes for a real bad situation. The big problem is that the entire outside of the unit, that is meant to be at ground potential and has no inulation on it is now at 12 volts. If something else brushes up against it or if the makshift insullation that is isolating the outside cast from ground fails, you wind up with a catistrophic failure of your electrical system - lige LARGE amounts of arcs and sparks and smoke. You then get the pleasure of purchasing and installing a new wiring harness. My strong advice is DO NOT GO THIS ROUTE! If you want to keep the car as a positive ground and still be able to charge your cell phone while driving, make up a special plug socket that has 2 pins, both isolated from ground for the car and make up a companion plug for the phone. This whole thing can be made with adapters for the cigar lighter or is can be a seperat plug and socket under the dash of the car. Either way, you are setting somethin up that will not endanger the electrical system in your car. If you don't have the expertise to do this your self, find someone to help you. It is even worth the money to have Car Toys or something similiar to do it for you. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

Fred-
This is not a flame, but a plea. Please, please don't use a cell phone while driving! There's a good reason why most states have made it illegal. More than once I've almost been killed by a driver using a cell phone, and I know of others who've had the same experience. Here in Virginia the first offense is a heavy fine and mucho points off your licence, second offense is a monster fine and you loose your license. Third offense you get to shack with Bubba courtesy of our friendly Department of Corrections. Unless you're an on-staff physician on call or someone who has to be constantly ready to deal with life-or-death situations, there's no rational justification for using a cell phone while you're driving a car. You're definitely going to get busted if you're spotted, just as surely as if you're seen chug-a-lugging from a bottle of whiskey while behind the wheel. In the eyes of the law it's seen as being on the same level of suicidal stupidity. Tell your wife that if she needs for you to pick up milk on the way home to call you at the office before you leave or forget it.
Steve S.

I never heard Fred say he was going to use his cell phone in his car, just recharge it there as I do(cat chewed the lines charger wire in two). What I don't understand is Fred's reluctance to change the polatity of his car, as that is the most practicle, and easiest, solution.
George B.

Steve Steve Steve. Spare me your entreaties! I'm cognizant of the follies of driving while using a cell phone.

Please don't assume that my wife calls me for milk on the car phone. Inany event, I have more respect for her than to,"tell her" what she should or shouldn't do.

I wish you hadn't associated my name with, "chug a lugging from a bottle of whiskey while behind the wheel, "spending a night with Bubba", or getting, "busted".

You may not be able to think of a rational justification for using a cell phone while driving, but here's one for being able to charge one in your car. My Motorola flip phone battery runs low - sooo, I always have it plugged in to keep it charged. Currently in the mga, I need to keep it off or it will run low.

So why don't I get a new phone or a new battery? I could, I was just asking if there was a simple way to keep it charged in the A.

"I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition"


Fred Horstmeyer

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Monty Python

Bring on the comfy pillows!

I keep a cell phone in my B. It is for emergencies and occasional use when not driving, and it is never used to receive calls. Even without use, cell phone batteries run down, and I don't want to take it somewhere else to charge it. So being able to charge it in the car is good. The car was changed to negative ground and a cigarette lighter installed during the rebuild, so I'm in business. By the way, the cigaretter lighter does not mean I smoke any more than charging the phone in the car means I use it while driving!
David Cushman

Fred-
It's merely my habit that I always begin my postings by addressing them to a specific individual. In retrospect I agree that it would have been best to not address my previous posting to any specific individual. It was actually intended to make people aware of just how talking on a cell phone while driving is viewed by those of us in the law enforcement community. Long ago I concluded from your contributions to this BBS that you're a thinking individual, so it did occur to me while I was writing that you were unlikely to engage in such a dangerous practice. Since Police Officers take such a dim view of cell phones in automobiles, here's a good idea: Should an Officer see the phone, he may presume that you're one of "those morons" who use their cell phone while driving. From that day forward every time he sees your car on the road he'll watch you and if he sees you make a mistake, guess what he's going to do? Ticket Time. So, if you have a console compartment that you can conceal the charger in, put it in there.
Steve S.

David, It's been a while since I did any research, but I believe it was the ,"comfy chair", that was used to great effect during the Spanish Inquisition.
Fred Horstmeyer

Cell phone's impact on driving is a rather interesting topic. I find it interesting that any state would make it illegal to use a cell phone when driving. The premise is that you are less in control of the vehicle when listening and responding over this communications device. When this premise is validated by passing a law making it illegal to use such a communications device, what other communications devices would be similarly affected? Our "emergency services" people, most especially police officers, regularly drive around in traffic, sometimes far in excess of the posted speed limits, while listening to their radios, transmitting on their radios, attempting to input information on their car computer terminals or read information on same. "Trained professionals"? Not in my experience. No police officer I have spoken to has been able to tell me that they get any regular training on high performance driving while being distracted by radio or computer messages. In my family, the passanger answers the cell phone. If there is no passanger, there is voice messaging. You stop when you can and then play the message. If you need to return a call, you can do so before you get back on the road. If the problem is that stupid people cannot drive while talking on the cell phone, my experience is that stupid people do not drive particularly well in any event. Cell phones, CB radios, AM/FM/CD/etc players also distract the driver. So does carrying on conversations with passangers. Bottom line is that the driver, like any "pilot in command" is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle. That should be the standard. Passing laws to cure stupidity or discourtousy(sp) has never worked before and will not work now.

Fred. I agree with David and Ted that a "stand alone accessory power outlet" is the way to go. Les
Les Bengtson

Steve,

You're reverting, hoss.
Ted

Spanish Inquisition? Wasn't that a great Monty Python bit....oh, yea, that the cheese routine and don't forget the Norweigan Blue parrot thing and of course the "Lumberjack Song" (my African Grey Parrot sing a few lines from that song)! Yes, bring on the Spanish Inquisition!

By the way, Luis is correct, you can reverse the wires to the lighter or you wire a new plug wihout positve earth making certain that insulate it so that it does not come into contact with a ground.

There are many threads concerning changing from positive to negative earth in the archive.

rn
RN Lipow

Ted,
I think that all the talk of war in other threads has upset the kinder, gentler Steve that we have grown to like(love?) over the last couple of years. After one gets upset, it sometimes takes a while to come down.
George B.

I would think the simplest solution would be a short pigtail -- male on one end, female on the other -- that reverses the polarity. One end into the lighter socket, the other to ANY accessory you choose to use, and zero changes required to the car...
Rob Edwards

Fred,

It's been a while for me, too, regarding Monty Python research. I think you're right about the comfy chair. Once that was brought out, do I recall correctly that they "beat" the old lady with soft pillows?
David Cushman

Fred, is your Motorola flip phone an old analog
one? I had the same problem and had to keep mine
plugged in all the time in my B, otherwise the
battery would run down fast. The replacement
batteries sold for the flip phones are worthless.

I really think your solution is to buy a new
digital cell phone. The reason I did this is that
the batteries last much longer than the old
analog flip phone's. Supposedly the new digital phones
can remain in standby mode for 10 days without
recharging. You could just periodically recharge it
in your house, and then leave it in the B for
several weeks.

Another thought -- is the case for the cigarette
lighter grounded? Or does it have a separate
ground wire? In the second case, you could just
reverse the connections to the lighter and your
cell phone would work fine despite the pos. ground.
This would be quite safe, again, as long as the
cigarette lighter case wasn't grounded itself.
Ronald

Steve,
Were you providing anectodal information regarding cell phones in the State of Virginia, or are you referring to a specific jurisdiction? The way you described the penalties, it sounded like you were talking about radar detectors.
I don't endorse the wholesale use hand held cell phones in cars; I'm also cognizant of - and even agree on some of the salient points of several studies which support the premise that ANY communication with an unseen corresponent (be it hands free or hand held phones, CB's, police/ems/fire communications, or single pilot civil aviation radios) presents a unique distraction that is not based on the conversation itself, but on the way the brain works when the correspondent is not present. Do I use my hand held cell phone while driving? Once in a while. Never for business, and not just to chat, either. I don't answer if it rings unless it's from home and the traffic allows. I see a dozen people a day using cell phones who scare the bejeezez out of me.....
I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there aren't of any localities in VA that prohibit cell phones, hands free or handheld for that matter. There are only a few municipalities in the country that have passed hand held cell phone bans - most in NY, where the state law on hands free use only contravenes local code if the local code is the more lenient.
By and large, most local ordnances not supported by state code don't hold up in court under elementary challenge because they fail to meet the reasonable and prudent person's assumption that a stranger to a locality would not know that a ban existed unless it were clearly posted at every roadway ingressing jurisdictional boundaries. Most have suspended enforcement, and those that haven't generally cite drivers for hand held cell phone use when probable cause existed for a traffic stop for eratic driving, collision, or speeding, etc.
At least 45 states have proposed bills concerning cell phones in automobiles. While 27 have presented bills, only 4 passed active legislation as of a couple of months ago. No state prohibits cell phone use; Texas and New York tried to pass outright bans and failed.

Some states now require law enforcement officers to provide information about cell phones when an accident occurs. Those states include: California, Florida, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Texas.

Before you get on a rant that I'm some kind of a radical commie pinko, I work for an insurance company, and every day I try to clean up some of the detritus of momentary lapses in judgement by folks of all walks of life - from nurses to drunks and stock brokers making deals and soccer moms calling for pizza on cell phones. And cops too. They have their share of non-pursuit collisions as well, be it dumb luck or just plain dumb move. I also get more than the occasional high speed pursuit collision, often the result of a 22-25 year old officer with no significant real life experience or training in high speed pursuit who is intent on writing a Contempt of Cop citation to the SOB that refuses to pull over.
There was a time in my life when I was out there chasing those bad guys, and I've also spent a whole bunch of shifts in a pediatric ER trauma room; that said, my perspective is certainly not myopic.
I know many cops in 4 local jurisdictions, and the ones I know don't have time to actively look for idiots on cell phones unless said idiot is doing something blatantly wrong because of the phone, or simply by being an idiot. Many have told me that they DO keep an eye peeled for a**h^&#s who don't buckle their kids in. AND, my take on that is - any adult who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt ought to sign a waiver that denies any and all entitlements to medical treatment or health/life/medical insurance. BUT, any adult who doesn't force every kid in the car into a belt or child seat ought to lose their car and their licence, and their kids, and if the kids get hurt because of it, then mon and or pop should go to prison and branded as a child molester.
Be careful out there.

Mark Childers

Mark-
In case nobody ever told you, in Virginia it's a moving offense to drive with any object in your hand, be it a mug of coffee, a submarine sandwich, or a cell phone.

You said "local ordnances not supported by state code don't hold up in court under elementary challenge because they fail to meet the reasonable and prudent person's assumption that a stranger to a locality would not know that a ban existed unless it were clearly posted at every roadway ingressing jurisdictional boundaries."

As a judge once told a defendent: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Spare us the jail-house lawyer bit. You're not an attorney, you're an insurance agent, so please don't mislead the public by handing out incompetent legal advice. Sorry if that sounds hostile.

You also said "I know many cops in 4 local jurisdictions, and the ones I know don't have time to actively look for idiots on cell phones unless said idiot is doing something blatantly wrong because of the phone."

Don't kid yourself. A good Police Officer always has the time to be observant about what's going on around him. That's his duty. He's paid to do that. If he's not observant, he should be motivated by his superiors. I know that sounds like I'm a hardass, but that's what the public has entrusted us to do, and we have to live up to that trust. How do you think that we catch criminals? Because we "don't have time" to be observant? I know that there's plenty of time-serving slobs who ride around in cars doing as little as possible and just take their paychecks and go home, but that's not what it's supposed to be about.

Steve S.

if anybody wants to get back to the question at hand, I'd like to put my two cents in
In typ. fashion I didn't even think about the thing charging I just pluged it in and it worked no problem.
With a Motorola flip analog phone.
Jim Neudorf

I know it's off topic from the original post, but in response to some of the other remarks, I have a Motorola flip (v60, digital) and the battery's not much better.

The battery is completely discharged after 2 days whether it's used or in standby mode. However, the one time that it remained charged for 5+ days (in standby) was in Victoria, BC (when I had no access).

After 09/11/01, I take my mobile phone *everywhere*. It's w/me in the car, but--like most everyone here--I don't use it while driving.
Ann

"Another thought -- is the case for the cigarette
lighter grounded? Or does it have a separate
ground wire?"

I think what you mean is "Does the cigarette lighter get its ground connection through the case."
All the ones I have seen have been installed in the centre console which is plastic so have to have a ground wire, but the case has been at ground potential.
Paul Hunt

I take a dim view of police officers targeting individuals for presumed cell phone use.
Maybe the Patriot Act removed any need for probable cause. Officer Steve and his fascist buddies would enjoy having that additional authority no doubt.

"Since Police Officers take such a dim view of cell phones in automobiles, here's a good idea: Should an Officer see the phone, he may presume that you're one of "those morons" who use their cell phone while driving. From that day forward every time he sees your car on the road he'll watch you and if he sees you make a mistake, guess what he's going to do? Ticket Time."


Where did you get your law degree Officer Steve?

"Spare us the jail-house lawyer bit. You're not an attorney, you're an insurance agent, so please don't mislead the public by handing out incompetent legal advice"
One of those morons

Wow, Fred's had a request for help.

Now people are turning this into silly spat. I thought MG folks were a helpful and friendly group.

These B posts are getting so you can't get caught up in some kind of flame war.

Lucas short out your good manners?
MG Owner

Paul is right about the case being at ground potential.

My solution (reversing the connections to the cigarette
lighter) is not really safe. The case will then be at negative
voltage in a positive ground car which is hazardous.

I still vote that (a) Fred converts to negative ground or
(b) gets a new digital phone. I have both a Nokia and
Motorola digital phone. Both of these will sit for at least
a week without the battery running down.
Ronald

Ronald

Unfortunately your solutions are a bit pricey!! ;-> I can understand point of converting to negative earth, one wonders why automobiles went that way in the first place. Also in britain most of us changed to digital phones a long time ago as they are smaller, lighter with better signal capability.

However, a voltage converter should not be too expensive from the likes of tandy or other auto-elec wholesalers. Surely by fitting this to the lighter socket it reverses the polarty so there are no nasty 'hot' surprises on the socket itself. If one has a voltage converter to use a radio it is surely the same unit?

When i was studying electronics at college, we could pick up NOT gates very cheaply indeed which essentially reverse signals. A voltage converter for the MG might be a bit more complex, but essentially results in the same output - reversed polarity.

This is a better alternative to cutting the charger wires up and reversing at the charger unit incase that affects the transformers function.

I dont have any knowledge of positive earth cars, so i couldnt say categorically, but its seems a voltage converter is best way to go to me if you dont want to alter originality of car by changing to neg earth, although if you need converters for more than 50% of systems you might as well change car permanently!! ;->

Just thinking out loud really... ~PHIL
Phil

Mark, you may not be a lawyer, but your real close to knowing the law. VIRGINIA DOES NOT have a law concerning CELL PHONES nor does it have a law stating that you can't drive with anything in your hands. However, if you have an accident, it could be an issue in any criminal or civil litigation. And to you my friend STEVE S. I think it was in May of 2001 that I received an e-mail from you regarding an MG issue and I inquired out of stupidity as to what part of Va you were from and this is part of what I received: "I HAVE BEEN IN LAW-ENFORCEMENT FOR THIRTEEN YEARS, AND HAVE MADE LOTS OF ENIMIES OVER THE YEARS, LIKE WITH MASS MURDERERS, SERIAL MURDERERS, SERIAL RAPISTS, SERIAL CHILD MOLESTERS AND ORGANIZED CRIME TYPES" ETC ETC. YOU WENT ON TO EXPLAIN HOW YOU TAKE A DIFFERENT ROUTE HOME EVERYDAY SO THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT FOLLOW YOU FEARING EVERYDAY YOU MAY BE KILLED BECAUSE YOU WERE ON A HIT LIST. The last time I checked, crime in your county was far lower than most. I would kill (NOT SERIOUS) to know half of what you know about MG"s. However, I wondered then and even more now, if you would even know how to fill out a traffic summons if your life depended on it. IF you are a COP, enjoy it one more day, because we have been on our honeymoon for 364 days. You see, when you wrote me that e-mail, you didn't realize that you were sending it to a 27 year veteran of the LEXINGTON VA POLICE DEPARTMENT who is also an MG nut. I don't hide behind my badge and have been proud to be a police officer for the past 364 days more than ever. BECAUSE FOR ONCE, I HAVE FELT APPRECIATED. So take a chill pill SIR, our honeymoon ends tomorrow as people will start to forget what the fireman and police officers died for one year ago. NOW, WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHATS WRONG WITH MY DAMN BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH. (SEE THREAD)

YOUR FRIEND IN CRIME?????
LT. STEVE CROWDER
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT
LEXINGTON VIRGINIA POLICE DEPARTMENT
(AN ACCREDITED AGENCY)
STEVE C_NOT_STEVE S

Maybe a dog catcher and a paralegal from VA will chime in next and settle the matter. Please..let's talk about MGs!!!
Stephen Stevens

We still use carrier pigeons here.
No problems with wires and ground issues, though the poop on the dash can be a bugger.
No laws against birds in cars either.
Lucky bastards hey!
Surfer

Lt. Crowder-
Now that I've had a little time to cool off after reading your posting, I'll respond.

For any Officer of the Court to reveal in a public forum the contents of an Email from a fellow member of the Law Enforcement Community in which that fellow member communicates his private fears and concerns for his personal safety and that of his family is a gross betrayal of confidentiality and demonstrates an utter lack of professionalism. In view of the fact that you have also chosen to inform the world of all of what little you know about what I do, I can only say that I am glad that I did not give you a description of my wife, the location of her employment, and where my children go to school. I can well understand why your superiors have found it appropriate to place you behind a desk in an administrative position. From the types of people that I have to (and gladly choose to) deal with, you should have immediately concluded that I could not possibly work for the County and that I certainly must (and in fact do) work for the Commonwealth of Virginia. You should have also immediately and simultaneously concluded that I don't drive around in a patrol car writing citations for moving violations. I have bigger fish to fry. In conclusion, if there's been a Honeymoon period since 9-11-01, or any increase in appreciation for what those of us do, I'm unaware of it. Since that date I've been busier than before. As far as I'm concerned, this is my last posting on this thread.
Steve S.

All,
As an MG enthusiast, a cell phone user, and a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I believe I must set something straight here: Maxwell Smart drove a Sunbeam Tiger, not an Alpine.
Dean
Dean Lake

Why would you bother with a cell phone in a B. I defy anyone to be able hear anthying resembling a conversation over the din of the engine!


As an aside, I have had to replace the fuses in 3 or 4 phone chargers and it would not be too much trouble to unscrew the fuse compartment on the plug and reverse the wires.

Technical point: a sunbeam tiger is the V8 version of the alpine.

Allan
Allan

I like Surfer's method best myself. Not only do you have service everywhere, but, if stranded, you have the option of eating the pigeon.

As to Steve S's comments, my only objection is that it was directed to Fred rather than as a general observation. He acknowledged this himself. As to the fact that he takes some careful precautions in his personal life, that is probably a good idea for all of us. A "relaxed awareness" is a professional trait of any number of professions, ranging from fighter pilots to professional tennis players. Certainly, some one who is alert makes a better driver. Today, I saw one woman, driving a one ton pick up truck, doing her hair, with both hands, as she was driving in rush hour traffic. Another was putting on her makeup and wondering over her lane and the bike lane while doing so. So poor old Steve, gets dumped on because he believes he may be a target and feels a responsibility to his family to take some precautions. Funny, this was exactly what we were taught to do, relating to the men under our command, back when I was a military officer. Yes, the REMFs did not have to do this. That is why they stayed REMFs and left the leadership to others. Personally, I have always felt more comfortable being with someone who is aware of what is happening around him (or her) than someone lost in the clouds. On those very rate ocassions when things go wrong, the former is ready to act intelligently. The latter acts without thinking, often with disasterous results. Les
Les Bengtson

Surfer,
Do you reckon there is potential there for an export market in carrier pigeons?

When the Lucas electrics burst into flames...just reach in the bag whip out a bird and , yummm yuummmm finger lickin' chic....er...pigeon!?
Peter Thomas

Dean Lake: A question if I may?
Is Virginia a Commonwealth and can it be such as well as a State?
Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but I have never heard of a state of the USA being anything other than a state.

Thanks, Pete.

Peter Thomas

Pete,
There are a few of the United States that are officially known as commonwealths as a carryover from colonial times. I don't belive there are any differences on a political or administrative level from any other state. I just say it because it sounds neat. ;)
Dean
Dean Lake

Dean,
Thanks for the reply.
My question was because I had never heard of Commonwealth in conjunction eith the United States.
Here in Australia we are a Commonwealth made up of States and Territories but we are only a Connwealth when All are represented.
Cheers, Pete.
Peter Thomas

I believe that Pennsylvania is also known as a Commonwealth. As Dean says, there is virtually no political or legal difference between the two. The US Federal constitituion only recognizes states.

A point of TV trivia: the Sunbeam Tiger that Maxwell Smart drove in the early seasons of "Get Smart" was the personal property of Don Adams. I've heard that he still owns it. In later seasons, he drove a Karmann-Ghia and then an Opel GT.
Paul Noble

Peter,
Probably yes. I suspect not to the USA though.
They'd never get through all the flack.
Surfer

All the Alpines I ever saw had fins, and the Tigers I have seen didn't. Tiger looked much better.
George B.

Allan is correct that the tiger was a re-engined Alpine - not unlike the B V8. The series one Alpine had the big fins (as driven by 007 himself). By the time the Tiger was unleashed, the Alpine body had diminished fins closer in scale to those of the B. In all years that they were both offered, they had the same bodies. I'm pretty sure all Tigers were negative ground and could accept a modern cell phone battery charger in states or commonwealths where that won't land you in jail. Two other commonwealths I can think of by the way: Kentucky and Massachusettes.
Dean "What were we talking about again?" Lake
Dean Lake

"Commonwealth of Kentucky" sounds like cheap whiskey.
.

1. I don't believe that the carrying capacity of a pigeon is capable of sustaining todays complex messages. A swallow might be a better choice.

2. I just read on pg 60 of vickybrit cata mga.26, that fuel pumps with a diode wired in parallel CANNOT have its' polarity reversed.

3. I,m going to get a digital phone before someone from this bbs hurts someone else.

4. P.S. - The person getting hurt might be me after I tell you all that I've had an inverter sitting on a shelf for years.
Fred Horstmeyer

Fred, African or European?
Dean Lake

Everyone seems to have missed the obvious and simplest answer -take the cigarette lighter plug off of the cellphone charger and put a new one on with the wire that went to the center pin now on the outside and vice versa. Now it will plug into the lighter socket and work with no changes to car.
Simon

Bless you Simon, G'night everybody.
Dean Lake

'Night All.
'Night John Boy.
Peter Thomas

A young girl in her new Saturn, chatting on her cell phone, ran a stop sign into my lane of travel on a 4-lane highway last night. I swerved and just missed her. Had someone been in the other lane, it likely would have been one less B and one less B owner.
Greg Bowman

Greg. A splendid example of the old saying "emotional situations lead to bad laws". Also a splendid example of why qualitative research methodology is taught at the doctorate, rather than the undergraduate, levels. The root cause of the problem was lack of situational awareness on the part of the other driver. What allowed you to avoid the possible accident was awarness of the developing situation on your part. Adding to the problem is the fact that driving an automobile is a priviledge given to an individual by the state in which their primary residence exists. All states have laws regarding the improper and unsafe operation of motor vehicles and, as a final resort, can remove the driving priviledges of any driver deemed to be unsafe. Unfortunately, the various states do not practice this. Here in Arizona, the graduate of a high school "driver's education class" may, if they pass the course, go down to the local DMV office and receive a driver's license with only a written test. My younger daughter attended such a class and received a total of three hours training behind the wheel of a car. All was low speed operation on quiet streets with no highway driving nor any rush hour driving. This is the level which my state defines as minimally competent and safe to issue a license to. I required several more months of supervised driving before allowing her to exercise her option of receiving the license. Several more months of non-supervised practice, mixed with supervised practice on highway driving and rush hour driving, followed by the Bondurant Teenage Driver Traffic Safety course, resulted in my giving her unrestricted driving priviledges. Therefore, as one who has been trained in qualitative research methodolgy (and pulled an A in the class with the final exam waived), my analysis is that both the state you live in and the law enforcement agencies have failed to ensure the driver was initially compentent to operate a motor vehicle and have failed to note her demonstrated incompetence and suspend or revoke her license. I would further note that the individual in question appears to be "other motivated", rather than "inner motivated" and has not worked to develope her safe driving skills. As such, any distraction which takes her attention away from the driving environment, will lead to her operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner due to her marginal ability to operate in a safe manner under non-distracting circumstances. Without a significant change in attitude towards safe driving on the part of the general public and a significant change in attitude towards documentation of unsafe acts by drivers on the part of our law enforcement community, there is only one solution which may help the individual. The more intelligent, aware and motivated individuals can practice improving their situational awareness and get professional training in advanced driving techniques. As Sir Rodney said, "The peasants are revolting!". To which the King of Id replied, "They certainly are." Les
Les Bengtson

Hear! Hear!
Greg Bowman

A year or so ago, when laws against cell phone use in cars was becoming a popular topic on the news, someone reported on a scientific study from a respected think tank (can't remember which one). The conclusion of the study was that anything that distracts the driver from the road is dangerous. They found that cell phones were no worse than carrying on a conversation with a passenger in the car. It is the conversation, not the technology, that is the problem. Your mind is not focused on driving.

They even found that, for some people, listening to the radio could be almost as distracting as talking on a cell phone.

Les, is right. It all boils down to the fact that a lot of drivers are paying attention to everything in the world, except their driving, and do not have a clue as to the true state of the situation they are in.
Paul Noble

Les. The educational and instructional part of driving is the responsibility of fine parents like yourself and the Division of Motor Vehicles. I wish law-enforcement could do more but the only documentation of unsafe driving on the part of police officers is limited to a traffic summons or a stern lecture which is usually about as usful as a screen door in a submarine.
Steve C

How bloody true. In the UK until recently it was possible for someone who had passed their test the day before to act as the 'qualified driver' of someone who had never say behind the wheel of a car before in a Ferrari. One such individual not too far from me managed to demolish a bus shelter and three elderly ladies in just such circumstances. 12 months before my children were legally able to drive I used to take them to private land on Sunday mornings so they could get the feel of a car and its controls before they needed to take account of other road users. Some might say that could lead them into a false sense of security, but both passed their tests first time, which is not the norm over here. But just this week I have heard people clamouring for new laws to prosecute people using mobile phones, and even for using the middle lane when the inside lane is free (not being allowed to overtake on the 'inside' in the UK), even though we have had a 'driving without consideration for other road users' and 'dangerous driving' for at least 30 years.
Paul Hunt

Hi All,

Late into this thread as ever.

The reason some people see their phones lasting longer than others is due to the radio section trying to stay in contact with a base-station. The further away the base-station, the higher the transmission-power from the phone needs to be thus the battery drains faster.

That's why some city dwellers see longer stand-by times than others (they live nearer a base-station).

As Ann noticed, if the radio can contact no base-station, it shuts down for long periods (periodic wake-up to search). This also give long standby times (but is useless if you need to phone!)

I have to leave my phone on charge at home as the battery quickly drains, but as soon as I travel a short distance towards where I work, my battery life rises greatly.

Cell / Mobile phone companys will take ideal conditions into acccount when quoting battery life.

HTH

Chris
Chris Byham

Look! Up in the Sky! Its a bird; its a plane; no, its Steve S from Virginia! I can't believe the load of crap he dumped out in that last post. Steve is obviously a man among men and is the guy who indoctrinates new recruits at the Virginia State Police Academy. While he does possess a god-awful amount of knowledge about MGs he needs to make some room for some knowledge of real life everyday street police work.
J.D "Buck" Savage

Pigeon 1 to Pigeon 2.

Unpack the patches. This flack is getting thicker. How many holes already and can we stay in the air?
Surfer

Pigeon 2 to Pigeon Leader:
Roger that!!

Status report:
...severe ground force resistance so far..
...Coms failing.....going down in flames!!
Peter Thomas

The car change in style and color.
Meersp

This thread was discussed between 05/09/2002 and 17/09/2002

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