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MG MGB Technical - Convertible header rails

Other than the holes drilled for mounting to a folding frame, is there any difference between folding and stowaway frame header rails?
Steve Simmons

From what I've been told, no. I plan to use the old header rail when I eventually get to buying a stow away top myself.
Anthony Morgan

I just had a top installed by a local shop and the problem I'm having is the center of the header rail sitting away from the windshield frame. There is a gap large enough to see through. I can tighten the clamps and it closes the gap somewhat but even with the clamps so tight that I can barely fasten them, there is still a gap. I thought maybe the stowaway rail is stronger than the folding type and less likely to flex? Just a guess.
Steve Simmons

Steve,

First and most importantly, I've only done one header rail/top install but, I did it eight times before it was right! So that either gives me some experience to speak of or demonstrates that I'm slow on the uptake!
That said,

I can't imagine any "professional" returning a soft top install with a gap so big you can see through it. If it were me, I'd never had left the shop or I'd have left refusing to pay and not return. Assuming you did neither, take it back and have it corrected. I'm assuming you have the rubber seal installed and the job was 100% "finished" by the shop.

The header rail, I'm told was the same throughout production although Clausager's does note some modification at car # 410001, June 1976. Very early cars had header rail gray, later black. Stow away rail had plugs in the screw holes where the folding frame would have attached. Unless of course, your car is green.

Paul
Paul Hanley

I've done several mgb tops on several cars. I too, believe that all the headers are the same (windshield frame is the same, right?).

I always found humor driving cars that have had more than one replacement top during their lifetime. When going around a corner, it sounded like a Mexican Rain Stick!! (all the drilled out rivets traveling from one side to the other).

Steve: sounds like your header is bent, or otherwise deformed. By rights, it should contact the center first, as the ends are pulled down by the clamps.
Randy Forbes

Mine does indeed sound like a rainstick and I've switched to screws to hold the seal strip.

Paul, the shop could do nothing to remedy the problem. They felt the stowaway header was different from the folding type but didn't know for sure. They also claim that later windshields are slightly different in shape (which I do not agree with) but even if it were true, this is the header that came with my car when new. It was on an early style folding top before now.

The header used to be gray but is now powdercoated black. The car is not green but black, so maybe black on black is the problem? ;)
Steve Simmons

Steve,

"They key to success is the willingness to do it over if it isn't right." That was told to me by a NAMGBR concours winner as I started my project. It's been a begrudged mantra.

Laquer thinner removes adhesive. Be carful to put it only where needed as it will soften/remove paint. Not important if the paint is covered by the fabric, just be carful not to get it on the cockpit side of the rail. Next, clean the rail with the thinner until pristine. Roll/peal the dried glue off the fabric with your fingers, (do the booger thing!). Next, open the end of the rail with a small screwdriver, and remove Mexican rain forest. Test fit rail for correctness. As you now know, it doesn't get any better later. If it is damaged, replacement is the ticket. Call Glenn Towery, he's got a barrel of them. 302-734-1243 (sorry, I got the last early gray one with blanking bolts!)

I think we overlooked the obvious. Did the rail fit ok with the old top? If it did well...did the shop damage it? What could have happened. Now, if it didn't fit, did you know? Did the shop give you the heads up? I think they had a duty to and they should re do for free, unless it was brought to your attention prior. It is a black top, isn't it?

Paul Hanley

I would have to agree with Paul, "Be the labor great or small do it right or not at all" Having been throught this before, I would say that the header rail is bent. Test fit, if it is not right try another one. I doubt that the shop could have bent the rail but it possible. The early cars had gray rails, the later black as has been mentioned before.

Safety Fast

Ron
RJS Smith

The solution to the rattling is to drill a 1/4 inch hole in one end of the rail and shake out the rivets!
Chris at Octarine Services

This is a guess, but perhaps the header rail is OK and where it attaches to the frame is loose or bent, allowing it to take a "nose up" attutude when latched down.

Wayne
Wayne Pearson

Or the clamps aren't adjusted properly, giving the illusion that there is something wrong with the header rail. Mine took quite a few tries before it fit correctly and I was certain it didn't fit. But after teasing and tickling, it did line up right. Unless it's visibly bent, it should fit. The header rail must fit correctly before even the thought of the next step in install can be considered. Steve, have you tried adjusting the two clamps in situ. You may be able to salvage the job. Is the windscreen correctly fitted? Good luck.

Paul
Paul Hanley

Wow! a veritable fount of information.
I'm having the same problem as Steve. The rail has a big gap in the middle IF you are lucky enough to get the latches to catch and lock.
Thank you all for the information. I'll be trying this stuff out. In the meantime I'm very thankful my MGB has a kick-ass heater.

Cheers
Rich

Steve - still working on that 15" alloy ;)
Richard Cutright

I've adjusted the clamps. They are now so tight I can barely get them to latch. THe gap is better but still there.

Richard, hurry up. My wife is spending all my money on hardwood floors!
Steve Simmons

Steve,

Make sure the rear bow is relaxed while adjusting the clamps. Should fit without being so tight. Once I had the clamps too tight and it got cold out and the windshield cracked.

Paul
Paul Hanley

As I have not had a stow-away top for25 years or so I can't remember what filled the extra holes since I'm doing up a stow -away rig at the moment and in this thread alone they have been described as "plugs"
and "blanking bolts" If Paul would be so kind as to describe them in detail it would set my mind at ease.RIC
R E L Lloyd

Steve-
We may be missing the obvious. The problem may not be the header rail at all. Are you trying to reuse your complete folding frame top with the packaway frame?
Steve S.

I have just been convinced to buy a top with a header rail installed. Between the cost of a shop doing the install and the top I think it's a wash as to expense. I've also had nasty experiences with 'top' shops who won't admit to poor work and then blame me or my car for their screw-ups.
Mike MaGee

Steve, I don't quite understand your question but I'm using the folding header with a stowaway frame.
Steve Simmons

Rick Lloyd,

The folding top frame connects to the header rail via three bolts on each side of the rail. Remove folding frame and you're left with empty threaded holes in the rail. I wouldn't worry about the blanking bolts/plugs. They are round headed, plastic bolts with a star type hex head. They serve absolutly no purpose whatsoever except cosmetic. Original pack away hoods/rails came with the blanking plugs.

Paul
Paul Hanley

Steve Simmons,

Other thoughts. Glass was the same all years 62-80. Therefor windscreen frames all the same shape. Therefor all header rails interchangable. The header rail doesn't bend with out visible kinks, so if your windshield assembly looks as it should then the header rail is out of adjustment. The clamps adjust up and down and left to right--and I promise you, you'll think I'm nuts, but eventually, it rings a chord and falls into place. Tidbit that might help--the early chrome clamps don't necessarily line up real well to a later rail's captured nuts. I had to put the clamps on, at first, on an angle with only one bolt in, then, I had to tease the second bolt in and twist to get them level. Get rid of the little black plastic boxes on each end of the rail until last. Don't have them on while adjusting the header. Put them on dead last and don't worry about using the original holes. Put them where they should go and redrill.

If you're happy with the rest of the fit: side to side, no wrinkles over the driver/passenger heads, no wrinkle at rear window, how it sits on the lift the dots, etc then I'd mark the fabric where it tucks under the rail so you can refit exactly and take it apart. Once you're free of the fabric, you're focused on one issue only.

I have to agree with Mr. MaGee in the sense that knowing what I went through, an upolst. shop would have returned their first attempt at an MGB saying it was something that I did. Unless you've got a brother in law in the business or have access to a bona fide British restoration shop I'd recommend redo yourself. Look at what the local canvas shop did! You can do better.

Perhaps a compromise with the shop. They undo the glue, you go home and fiddle with the rail, they reinstall when you prove to them it can be done.

Show this thread to your shop. Sometimes it helps towards resolution.

Paul
Paul Hanley

I think I'll eat the cost and live with a lesson learned rather than get into a fight about it. Then I'll tear it apart and spend an afternoon trying to make it right.
Steve Simmons

Steve-
What I'm saying is that the folding top (hood) designed for the Michelotti-designed folding frame will not work with the frame of a pack-away top and vice-versa. The frames are different, so the contours of the tops (hoods) are also different.
Steve S.

Interesting. Are you saying the outer arc or the hood may be flatter on the stowaway? That would make sense when looking at my problem. The forces applied on the stowaway header do seem to be mostly straight back.
Steve Simmons

CA Steve, I think what VA Steve means is that the top material will not fit all the different frames. So a top from a stow away will not fit a later fold down top.

However that being said, I don't think that's your problem. Could it be that the aluminum channel that holds the gasket in place is bent or that there's too much material on the sides causing the header not to seal correctly in the center? To me that seems like a logical place to begin. That happened to me with my Miata top and I had to fix the upholsterer's screw ups. After examining several B headers I have in my house I find it hard to believe that yours is bent.
Mike MaGee

I'm using Moss' "universal" seal. It doesn't look the same as the original but does seem to fit ok. When it stops raining I'll take the top off and check that out. Thanks!
Steve Simmons

This thread was discussed between 07/12/2003 and 10/12/2003

MG MGB Technical index

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