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MG MGB Technical - Coolant loss

I have a 1975 gt which chucks water from the overflow pipe. It retains water a couple of inches below the 13psi cap and never overheats even on a long run. Any idea why it does this?
Rod Merrall

Rod. The system is designed to run a few inches below the filler neck so that as the system heats up and things expand, it will not blow the excess water out. Sounds like your system is operating correctly, but keep an eye on it. Take it our for a run, let the engine cool, observe the level of the water in the radiator, then, keep an eye on it. If it remains at the same level, that is the level it should be kept at. If it continues to lose water, that indicates a problem somewhere in the cooling system which would need to be checked out. Les
Les Bengtson

Rod
Could be a couple of things-
Maybe the cap isn't holding pressure properly, could be caused by having gunk under the little return valve in the centre of the cap, just a wash and a spin around usually fixes that, -Also inspect the rubber seal on the cap for wear/cracks/splits,if it's worn badly it could be loosing pressure and letting the coolant escape--Most garages should have a cooling system pressure tester, they could test your cap to make sure it's holding full pressure
Also, there are a few different length radiator caps, if it's been replaced, maybe it's too short
On the first click it should just sit there with just minimal pressure/touching happening then spring load as it's screwed down--or measure the depth of the hole compared to the depth of the cap
The free length of the cap should be probably 1/16"-1/8" longer than the depth of the radiator fitting
willy
William Revit

Doesn't a "75 have an expansion tank. The "normal" level in my'73 is about 1/2 full.
As the coolant heats it expands into the tank, then returns to the system as it cools down.
That's why it's called an "expansion" tank.
Allan Reeling

Expansion tank originally on 77 and later for 4-cylinder. There is a fault with those that can continually push coolant out of the expansion tank overflow and eventually empty the radiator when a low-level combustion chamber leak is pressurising the cooling system. This is because the 'air' that has to escape from the cap is carrying coolant with it. Had that on my V8 with remote expansion tank.

This doesn't happen on systems without the expansion tank as there is (or should be) a large air-space between the top of the coolant and the cap to the pressure can escape without losing any coolant - until the pressurisation gets bad enough to raise the level of coolant in the rad to the cap. For many years I'd noticed that my roadster radiator cap was hissing when switched off, until the head gasket leak suddenly got worse. There were other symptoms of this such as temp gauge fluctuation during warm up, which no longer occurred after I replaced the head gasket.

The usual cause of coolant loss in those systems is when it is being overfilled when cold, it should only be about 1/2" above the top of the tubes. Coolant loss then needs to be investigated, firstly with a pressure gauge which will tell you how the cap is performing as well as if you have excess pressurisation. A weak cap will tend to chuck coolant out at switch-off when heat soak raises the temperature of the coolant in the engine, and hence the pressure.

In normal use the pressure should only be a few psi, well below cap pressure especially on a 75 with a 10lb cap GRC109. Earlier cars were only 7lb and there have been problems with two (at least) different lengths. For the later remote expansion tank and electric cooling fans the cap was 13lb. Export markets can be different.
paulh4

Thanks very much for your help. I have overfilled when cold! Is my 13psi cap a problem?
Rod Merrall

Shouldn't be a problem, later caps were 15psi for North America and the V8. I did have a 20lb cap on the V8 for a while when I had the problem with that, until the top hose exploded in spectacular fashion with heat-soak.

So with the quality of standard hoses these days you could get a failure if a small combustion chamber leak is pressurising the system. If it's not hissing at switch-off after getting fully up to temp it's fine. But if it does hiss then it needs looking at.
paulh4

MGBLE

I have a 15psi radiator cap and I have never had a problem in 5 years of owning the car with overheating or coolant loss. Moss say 15psi (GRC 1110)but MGOC say 13 psi (GRC 111). Unless I have made a mistake it's a bit confusing. Not that I am going to change it.
Craig M Harvey

Rechecking the Parts Catalogue that does say GRC110 which seems to be 15lb and doesn't distinguish between markets. It's Clausager that says 13lb for the UK and 15lb for LHD. I can imagine that as LHD had twin electric fans like the V8 and is more likely to be used in hotter conditions than one normally gets in the UK.

One is more likely to get problems using a 13lb cap where a 15lb is specified and the car is being used in extreme conditions.
paulh4

Serious question, only in that I'm enquiring because I don't know the answer. Is it a class, public/private school education thing where 'one' refers to people only by their surname even though you know their first name and they refer to themselves using their first name?

I'm lower class so calling someone only by their surname is usually done in a derogatory fashion.
Nigel Atkins

What a strange question Nigel. All I can say is that my dad was a factory worker and certainly not upper class, and I went to the local grammar school because I passed my 11-plus. In that school every boy was known by their surname and so it was natural that we the boys did the same. By best pal was Hughes.
Mike Howlett

Interesting one Nigel--Your question seems to have come out of nowhere---
I'm a first name sort of guy, usually i even spell my own name minus a capitol, to me ,in my eyes it's a bit self important using I or W
The only time i use someone's surname as their id is if i don't know their given name or in the usual case round here when someones nickname is a variance of their surname--eg -a friend named Yaxley might be Yakka or Adkins might be Akka or Rayner might be Rayno, etc
I can't imagine calling someone Smith, Smithy maybe

willy
William Revit

Mike,
must be an age/generation thing too then. Going to a grammar school probably meant you were moving class wise too. Do I take it (as I can't remember) Grammar schools were not mixed, boys and girls, or how were the girls addressed?

I went to a Comprehensive for a while that may have modelled itself on either Grammar schools or public/private schools where the teachers wore the wotsit hats and gowns and the (mixed) pupils were divides into "houses" with names or colours or both (can't remember now). Very good standards and education there but I was only there 18 months and moved on to a very rough council boys only school, sublime to ridiculous.
Nigel Atkins

Willy,
the question does follow from a post and it's something I wondered about with other recent posts.

In my circles to refering to someone by their last name only is often a derogatory thing.

One person used to call me Aka for a short while, it didn't catch on as no one else seemed to know who he meant. Only Prop and my elderly neighbour called me Nigal.

I was once surprised when a stranger addressed me by my first name (in a very friendly way), my wife later pointed out I was still wearing a name badge with just my first name on it.

I used to wear (full) name badges at a few jobs so am used to people having easy access to my name, never bothers me but some refuse to wear name badges under any circumstances.
Nigel Atkins

You are right Nigel in that my grammar school was boys only, so I have no idea how the girls at their grammar school knew each other. Our teachers wore the academic gown but not the mortar board hat, and every boy was know to the staff and to the other boys by their surname.

The school was divided up into six "houses" named after local historical persons-of-note. House colours (a sort of award scheme) could only be won on the rugby or cricket field. Since I had no sporting ability at all, any recognition was denied to me and others like me.

I wore short trousers until I was 14, and was forced to wear a hooped school cap until 16. If you were spotted on a school day in the street by a teacher and you didn't have your cap on you were in trouble. Of course we suffered merciless ragging from the secondary modern kids.

I hated it, although the education was good. Thank goodness times have changed.

Nowadays I still find it odd when people I don't know want to call me Michael, especially when it is a phone call. "Is that Michael Howlett?" "Yes" "How are you today Michael?" I want to say "To you I am Mr Howlett thank you." Am I odd?
Mike Howlett

Quite right Mike, -I can remember when i was a young tacker anyone older was always Mr. unless they said something like please call me Nigel, but as I've gotten older it seems more normal to use someone's given name.
I feel as though we're all friends on this bbs and feel quite comfortable addressing others on here by their first name
I may have misunderstood Nigel's question--
Is the question on using someones surname about calling, Nigel for example---Atkins or Mr.Atkins
If the man was a stranger to me I'd address him as Mr.Atkins until he said, Please, it's Nigel or if I'd been introduced to him as Nigel--but i can't see myself ever addressing him as straight out Atkins
William Revit

Nigel

Your question about using someone's last name only - does it relate to Paul's post that referred to 'Clausager'? If so, I'd take that as an often used quick way of referring to the author of a recognised authoritative tome - in the same way someone might quickly refer to other weighty tomes/standard texts within specific technical subjects without using the full name and book title, such as 'Fream's Agriculture' (and there must be many engineering manuals and standard texts known in short by their author's surname), or for recognised ideas/theories in technical subjects such as 'Koch's Postulates' or ''Darwin's Theory of Relativity'.

Otherwise I do get what you mean about just using a surname being unfriendly and what one receives when being ordered about.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Err sorry for the further contribution to thread drift! Some way from the coolant loss question.

This amount of thread driftt is normally part of the fun of the midget BBS fora that I usually inhabit (and some familiar Midget posters on this thread), hope this is not an unwelcome pollution of MGB matters.

I am learning some good stuff about coolant levels too.

Best wishes
Mike
M Wood

Oh I'm so glad its not just me that gets things muddled sometimes. Darwin's Theory of Realitivity? I think you may be meaning either Einstein or the Origin of Species. Tee Hee.

Yes Willy, if I didn't know you I would address you as Mr Revit, but certainly not just Revit. But that was the norm in our school. Since I left that school in 1966 at the age of eighteen, I expect that might have changed - I hope so.
Mike Howlett

MikeH,
short trousers until 14 and leaving school at 18 was all very different from my neck of the woods, I might be wrong but you'd have been in long trousers by 10 or 11, latest.

I wasn't sure of the spelling of mortar and thinking back I'm not sure if it wa only the senior teachers that wore them, if any wore them. At that school you'd certainly only address the teacher as Mr./Mrs/Miss Soandso and the class had to stand everytime a teacher entered the room. I liked the discipline and respect there.

You are quite right to be addressed properly, the person should establish how you want to be addressed especially a stranger to you who is remote like with a phone call. It's poor training and boredom that leads to this, sometimes when the phoner asks "How are you today" I sometimes tell them starting at book one, chapter one, sentence one and they soon get to the point of the call.

I try not to give someone who is just trying to earn a living a hard time but so many scammers (con-people) or those not being totally honest can make this more difficult.

I always answer the but first listening to the background noise at the other end, this gets rid of many autodials which are often scammers or unwanted callers. If I hear background noises I answer just "Hello", this will trigger the recorded message and if I say no more at the end the call is ended from the caller as the system probably thinks it's left a message on an answering system of some sort. Ending the call before this may just put you back in the loop for another call later.

Just answering "hello" after the delay of listening puts the caller on the back foot, even those that know me and should be used to it, but especially those making speculative calls.

Scammers, if I'm in the right mood I will have fun with or try to dissuade them from their dishonesty but many can get quite nasty as they have their anonymity.

Few people phone me anyway, i've no idea why.

Nigel Atkins

MikeW,
it wasn't just that reference, Paul has called John Twist, Twist, I wondered if this was just a way of address or if it implied disagreement with what they'd wrote or said.

And given Paul's surname.
Nigel Atkins

Willy,
it's about the previous given examples, John Twist who always at least introduced himself as "John Twist" on his videos, and Anders Clausager (if I remember correctly uses Anders?). Also on the S&M side, Terry Horler addressed as "Horler", again IIRC Terry Horler was a poster here and is still a member of MASC (Midget & Sprite Club) which IIRC he co-founded.

In my neck of the woods if someone just called me Atkins to my face or in my presence then I'd assume there was trouble of some sort or level, definitely if it was from my wife.

You can call me anything you like - except later for meals!

I think I put before I thought your surname was made up as a joke to Willy (will 'e rev it).

A lot seemed to have missed that Prop was an abbreviation of Professional Painter but calling him Mr. O'Brien (I hope I've correctly remembered his surname) I very much doubt would have made the slightest difference to the interaction with him.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I didn't know you were into S&M....
Mike Howlett

Freudian slip.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
just for the record
Ole mate Prop -Jeffrey O'Brien is correct
It was Pro Paper - as in wallpaper, the business was an interior decorating / painting business
Cheers
willy
William Revit

An uncle was past President of Melbourne, Victoria clubs and the Australian Rugby Union and in his obituary apart from right at the beginning of the article he was referred to by his surname and in no way was the article disrespectful.

Many years ago someone wrote "When I first started work everyone referred to me by my first name. As I progress up the management ladder people who reported to me used my title and surname, and those I reported to used my first name. When I progressed further and senior management referred to me by my surname I knew I had 'arrived'."

I use 'Twist' in the same way I use 'Clausager' and 'Leyland' i.e. as a recognised source of information that most people here will know of. Whether I agree with, disagree with or am just restating what they have said about a particular subject should be obvious in the rest of what I say. Certainly (Anders Ditlev) Clausager's book and the Leyland manuals contain errors. The last time I can recall referring to 'Twist' here was in the thread on clutches, and didn't out and out disagree with him. I agreed that the slave (and master) push-rod length could cause problems if excessively long or excessively short, but within limits, the same as mechanical wear at the clutch end of the hydraulic system, it will have no effect on clutch operation.

'Playground' comment ignored.
paulh4

Willy,
my poor memory again, I thought I'd seen Pro Painter at some point, thanks for correction.

I had to check the spelling of Prop's surname as I wondered if I'd misremembered and it was O'Brian, I (think) remember conversing with Prop about his possible nationality and ancestry, obviously he was always stardust.
Nigel Atkins

Paul,
to my mind you are wrong to assume these are recognised sources, they could be many readers who don't know of them and wrong to just use their surname, these are people not companies or organisations. Just my opinion of course.

It's fair enough that you are nearer to your uncle's generation of ways of doing things but do also consider you live in the present day.

I often refer to your excellent site but always try to remember to use your full name.

Yes there are always errors and omissions in books, videos, databases and websites, some errors and omissions are there from copying the errors and omission from other sources, some are original to that point.

BTW you can't ignore something by referring to it. ;)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
My apologies-

O'Briens Professional Painting
Unit 3 4017 Route Cc
Jefferson City,
MO 65109

I had talked to Prop about wallpapers and have always thought it was Pro Paper but just looked his contact up in my little book just to check and there it was in black and white
Professional Painting

I stand humbly corrected

willy
William Revit

Willy,
how could you take advantage of a feeble-minded person like me, is it you phoning me from "Amazon" and "Microsoft"!

No problem, no need to be humble, I thought you must be right as I often can't remember or remember wrong. Often when I'm confident I've remembered correctly I haven't. When we used to go to low-level quizzes at a 'local' pub I'd often remember the question and the answer I'd previously given but not remember if it was a correct answer.

Now I'm happy if I can give my own name correctly.
Nigel Atkins

Ha ha ha, -Cheers Nigel
Low level quizzes at the local
Q#1-- , where's the door.
Q#2--Can I get way over there in one go
Q#3--How did I get out here--I need to pee
William Revit

Many years ago I worked with a draftsman whose name was Gunther Gunther. No lie

Cheers

Gary
79 MGB
gary hansen

This thread was discussed between 13/07/2020 and 19/07/2020

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