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MG MGB Technical - Dangerous brake line ?!
I am fitting 1975+ servo brakes to a 74 chrome bumper "non servo" V8 conversion.
I have just purchased some new brake line from a Moss distributor and they all have SAE (double) flares. The old lines I removed are all ISO (bubble)flares.
Is this correct or should I be asking for my money back.
|Tony, my 75 also had bubble flares, I think you have received the wrong lines. There are addaptors available at auto parts stores if you want to go that route.|
|The lines are labelled by Moss as the correct ones but they obviously are not !|
I would rather have the correct lines but tell me more about the adaptors?
|The addaptor is threaded and has a bubble flare shaped end that screws into the master cylinder using a standard wrench, it than excepts the SAE standard double flare. It is about an inch long, all the ones I have purchased have been anodized red, but that may be manufactures preference. Take a brake line with you to check, be aware that there is also a metric version as the Jap's also use a bubble flare at my supplier, the metric versions are blue.|
You may not find these at some of the chain automotive stores, but a good old fashioned auto parts house will have them.
|Tony - How does Moss ship brake lines? Are they pre-formed (leading to a awkward shipping problem) or are they rolled up?|
Thanks - Paul
|I don't know what a bubble flare is but assume it must be a single as opposed to double flare. There are only two types of fitting used both being for 1/4" o/d pipe and having SAE threads. The male fitting which always has a single flare formed and the female or cap end which should be used with a double flared pipe end. The easiest method of producing brake pipes is from a coil of pipe, a handful of both types of fitting and a pipe flaring tool. Having now purchased the Moss kit you are stuck with it but it is easily put right. Just get a few fittings and a simple flaring tool, nip off the incorrect end changw the fitting and reflare. In addition you will have the flaring tool for future jobs or repairs.|
|PR - Moss ship them as a coil with flared end ends|
Iain - A bubble flare lookes a bit like a doughnut and a single (or double) flar looks more like athe end of a trumpet !!
Graphically a bubble flare looks a bit like:
A single fare:
And a double flare:
Mossagrees that the lines should have bubble flares so I am sending them all back.
|Apologies for the lack off "graphics" above the bbs won't let me do it.|
Any chance of sending a picture direct to my e-mail? Of even a diagram via fax?
As I responded earlier to your direct e-mail the new lines are coming with a modified flare that was developed by Moprod back in the 90s. This looks a bit different from the originals, but has been the standard flare design for all of the replacement line kits coming out of the UK for the past 10 years.
Let's make sure you really have a problem before sending the parts back. These individual lines are not a fast moving product, but it looks like a reasonable number of them sold last year without any complaints.
|I have always used a double flare on MGs, I have bought brake line on a roll for 20 years and flared it myself with a regular flaring tool, it has always worked just fine. I had to replce a brake line on our 79 last year, I made up double flares using a Craftsman flaring tool and bolted it right on - no problems.|
|There are two flares as I have described above and it is vital to use the correct ones to match the fittings. Failure to ensure this will result in a braking system which is unsafe. Please take great care to ensure that you have got it right.|
I have just checked my email and I don't seem to have received an email from you.
The flares are definately "double" flares. I spoke with your tech guys yeterday and they told me that the ones they had in stock all had traditional "bubble" flares. I will try calling you directly to discuss.
I have spent the morning communicating with Kelvin at Moss Motors and the service has been absolutely superb.
Apparently the supplied flare is a special one designed by Moprod some time ago that allows connection to to concave and/or convex seats so it effectively "replaces" bubble flares and double flares while being able to seal to either.
Kelvin kindly sent me the actual Moprod technical documents from their archives explaining the way that it all works.
Thanks again to Kelvin (and Blain) at Moss Motors for all their hard work and fabulous support, it is refreshing to experience real customer support in today's world.
|Tony, I see that as quite possible that someone has come up with a dual purpose flare. My pipe flaring tool is manufactured by Moprod and really produces very good single and double flares and if a manufacturer such as them has produced a dual purpose flare then that's fine. You must however be sure that this is the case. I would imagine that it would look like the normal single flare with a small V shaped pressing right in the centre and hence would seal on either fitting.|
|This is a great example of how something that COULD have turned into a "supplier bashing" evolved into a "learning experience"|
Kudos to all involved!
|Yes Rick it is but I feared that it might go to Flame Wars at one point !!|
This thread was discussed between 09/03/2006 and 11/03/2006
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