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MG MGB Technical - Engneering Changes I'd Make
| Having restored cars other than British cars has given me some perspective on the engineering decisions made at the MG factory and some things I'd like to see done differently if I had the opportunity to do so. Windscreen: I'd re-engineer the design of the lower bracket so that the bracket is bolted to the leg where it mounts up to the car and the screws are easily accessible. A channel, so the bracket fits flush with the leg, would make it infinitely easier to install and remove the glass and especially the bottom rubber w/s. I would have used brass screws too. Brake Box: A redesign of the firewall so that the master cylinders are mounted on the vertical part of the firewall like almost every other car. No water leaks and a simpler installation of the masters. The least that could have been done was to put a raised lip on the hole so water wouldn't enter so easily. Heater valve: The use of a ball cock not the complicated leak prone valve as installed. Emergency/Park Brake Get rid of those long cables that stretch, and the rust prone compensator and use steel lines with a pivot on the rear axle and a short cable from the handbrake to the pivot on the axle. The cables are necessary for IRS cars but not for those with solid axles. More to come and add your ideas also. I'm not complaining to much but thinking how life could be easier. |
| Mike MaGee |
| A simplified latching system for the battery box cover. For the Roadsters, it might not be as bad, but for the GT's, getting to the battery is a pain in the back. Perhaps moving tha battery under the hood also. (easier on the non-smog cars) |
| Bruce Cunha |
| A modern fuse panel would be nice as well. 4 fuses for an entire car? That doesn't make a lot of sense! How about 4-valves per cylinder and an aluminum block? Ok, that may be a little overbored. I mean overboard. Or do I? |
| Jeff Schlemmer |
| Jeff, The 4-fuse panel does not seem that strange to me. Until a month ago, when she was forced to upgrade the electric in order to connect to a new sewer system (with grinder pump), my mother-in-law's house had a four fuse system. |
| Bill Barge |
| Hi all. The front indicators on a UK spec RB are invisible from the side as they are 'buried' in the bumper. Has anyone fitted side repeaters that look 'right' ?. Don |
| Don |
| The battery under the "rear seat" on my BGT is infuriating. I've installed a switch mounted just under the "seat" to isolate the battery without pulling everything apart. The switch doubles as an anti-theft device (as if anyone would steal such an identifiable machine). |
| J.C. Weidner |
| The MGB's packaging efficiency is quite amazing when compared for example with a Miata. Nevertheless there is room for improvement (no pun intended). In fact, more room in the MGB trunk would be helpful when going camping at the Watkins Glen vintage races. An engineering solution that could have existed, is to remove the existing under trunk gas tank and mount the spare tire/wheel under the trunk floor instead of the spare tire being inside the trunk. The battery boxes would be removed and a new different gas tank mounted there instead. An AGM battery (same as used by the Miata) would go in the trunk (the AGM battery in the Miata is amazingly small, long lasting and totally free of acid spills). Remember, the MGB was first designed with an IRS rear suspension in mind and therefore there was a lot of space made available around the rear axle. Perhaps this is why the battery boxes ended up in this space once the decision was made to go with leaf springs. And by the way. A popular modification to the Miata is to take the spare wheel from the trunk and mount it under the trunk floor. Did this with my wife's Miata and we've gone on two week trips with it with all the luggage we required. Like to do the same with the MGB. I suppose another approach for more room in the MGB trunk is the use of a space saver tire/wheel. Has anyone tried adapting the knock off spline hub onto a modern day space saver wheel? Martin. |
| Martin Handforth |
| Hi all. I would guess that one reason for the choice of battery position(s) was to get this heavy item towards that rear of the vehicle, which is better for weight distribution (particularly on a roadster). It is also a good idea to keep a battery out of the hot engine compartment. Don |
| Don |
| Things that IMO the factory should have done differently from the beginning (I think all of them would have been "doable" at the time): - V8 and overdrive standard on all of them (when the nailhead became available) - Better airflow through the engine compartment (exit vents) - Single battery from the beginning, left side in RHD cars, right on the LHD cars. - Relays in the electric systems for all high current items (headlights, heater fan, wipers etc) - Ground points close to each component, not with a mile long wire. - Coil spring rear with 4-links and a panhard bar. - Front end done with ball joints instead of the kingpin construction (cheaper and easier to rebuild). - Telescopic shocks (yes the swing things are OK, but telescopes would be easier to replace). - Proper jacking points for roadside tire replacement - Galvanized body :) Otherwise, it's perfect. Kari |
| Kari |
| I am with the spare under the boot floor and the fuel tank in the battery area idea. However, I have always felt that putting the battery under the bonnet on the bulkhead the other side from the pedal box was not ideal. Too high and near the front. How about a soft top that is designed to remain attached around the back when down. Like the RV8. Then you just pull it over your head and do the 2 latches up. What I would make a big difference to is the MGC. From the foot wells forward most body and suspension parts are unique to the C. I am sure that by lengthening a B between the screen and the front cross member you could make a better car and use fewer unique parts. David |
| David Witham |
| Motor Mounts Kind of overkill with 4 bolts holding the engine on. A much simpler system could have been easily devised using 2 larger bolts as almost every other car has. Tranny Mounts Again a much simpler system could have been devised using one large monoblock tranny mount as most cars have. It would have made life a lot easier for everyone and would support the tranny much better. Timing Marks Who was the genuis who put them on the bottom of the engine making timing an engine a 2 man event? |
| Mike MaGee |
| "How about a soft top that is designed to remain attached around the back when down. Like the RV8. Then you just pull it over your head and do the 2 latches up." David, you can do this with the old grey "sissors" frame. My Dad has been using this method on his '63 MGB for as long as I can remember (he bought it new when I was 5). Don't try it on the new style frame, though, the frame with pinch & cut the top. |
| Carl Floyd |
| Carl, I used to have a '66 B with the folding grey frame. It also had 2 holes in the soft top, 1 each side above the 1/4 windows, made by the frame when I tried to fold it while still attached! David |
| David Witham |
| How about a soft top that would be easy to erect and take down, such as the Fiat 124 Spider. And why not put the battery in the trunk like the Fiat, and have the spare tire under the floor like the Fiat, and have a proper 5 speed transmission like the Fiat. How about a better impact bumper design, instead of those black masks use chrome tubes attached to shock absorbers, sort of like the Fiat, Could have put a DOHC engine in too, like the Fiat. Hell, then I guess it wouldn't be an MGB at all, but a Fiat. |
| Henry |
| Gee Henry, why are you getting so upset? Purist I guess. Fair enough. I am just glad I (and others) were born with imagination so when someone says I'd like to do this to my MG like they do on car X I have something more useful to say than 'why don't you get an X then'. And in this case we're talking pure fantasy! Personally I wish the seats had a slightly more contour to them so when you go round corners fast you're not sliding back and forth so much. Simon |
| Simon Jansen |
| David, That has never happened on my Dad's car. Sure does go up fast, when needed. http://www.britcars.net/FloydH.html |
| Carl Floyd |
| Mike, if its not too late, switch over to an 18V timing cover and re-mark your pulley. It puts the timing mark on the top side. You could even just weld on your own timing pointer with a different TDC mark. |
| Jeff Schlemmer |
| Henry, Fiats are fine cars. We had a '84 Bertone X1/9 for years before acquiring our '63 MGB. We still have them both. The X1/9 has the best handling and steering of any car I've ever owned or driven but it is the MGB that leaves us with memories of great trips. I've even tried a little bit of MGB reverse engineering to the X1/9 by cutting off the targa roof and installing an MGB packaway frame and hood on it. It looks a lot better. If I keep going with more updates on the X1/9 I might even end up with another MGB :) Martin. |
| Martin Handforth |
| Don, <<Has anyone fitted side repeaters that look 'right' ?.>> Check in the archives. When I had my '76 (sold last summer), I made this change. I replaced the single bullet connectors from the side marker light with double connectors. The part that is fuzzy is what wire from the turn signal was also connected. I think it was the ground wire. I say this because to me it seemed as though it would not work. When completed, the side markers flashed out of sync with the turn signals. |
| Bill Barge |
| Don, In January 2001, a thread titled "Turn Signal Wiring - Another Thought" in the MGB General archive said: Don Smith, Arab, Alabama, don.smith2@boeing.com Front sidemarker flash is pretty simple. The sidemarker must be isolated from ground. Since the plinth is plastic all you have to do is isolate the attach bolts. I used the little blue plastic sheetrock screw inserts and trimmed them flush with body and used nylon washers under the nuts. Works great. You can also use 10-32 or 10-24 nylon bolts/nuts as substitutes for original metal screws. Attach black ground wire to turn signal wire and other wire to parking light wire, system. Requires a couple of Lucas double connectors. No wiring hacked up and you can return to original set up anytime. My '70 GT is a daily driver and I feel a little more visible at night when sticking her nose out of a side street. Note: I take no credit for this mod, it was Dan Strern's idea, I just implemented it. Try http://lighting.mbz.org. Stern's web site has a very informative FAQ. ===Don The website apparently is no longer there. |
| Bill Barge |
| Not to violate the spirit of this thread, but it's hard to find fault with the 'B in total. We've all had experience in a Miata/MX-5, I'm sure, and the car does a pretty good job copying an MGB, but it lacks room for anyone over 5'10" and a usable trunk. Everyone complains about the small size of the 'B trunk, but has anyone tried a new Thunderbird? You've got 107 inches of wheelbase, and I still can't properly fit on the car (I'm only a hair over six foot) AND the trunk is smaller than the MGB. My daughter has CP and her walker fits in the trunk. In today's cars that quite a feat. So, please, chalk up the the lever arm shocks and the leaf spring suspension as a definite plus on the MGB ledger. As far as electrics and body construction are concerned, at least they're better than than any Italian brand one could mention. Especially anything pricy, as in Ferrrari and Maserati, let alone anything more affordable, like Fiat. And the body construction is as rugged as a bridge. Sure we could slag our cars over a few things - it's a shame the O-series engine was never installed, nor the V8 availabale in the States - but I can't say I'm in anyway disappointed in the roadster nor the GT I have. But then the secret to happiness is in low expectations. |
| John Z |
| John. As a sociologist, I would agree with you. I am not, in any way, competent to re-design the MGB myself. I own both a roadster and a GT. All things considered, and a lot of cars behind me, the GT is the finest designed car that I have ever owned. The roadster fights with the MGA roadster for the title of second best. There are a lot of things that I wish had been done differently. Getting under the dash and working on it is best left to those with smaller than normal hands. (One now realizes why they had some many young boys working at the plant.) Many other small items come to mind. But, overall, the early (pre-emissions parts) cars are a joy to work on compared to some of our more modern cars. I have a friend who owns a garage and I am on first name basis with his mechanics. They will, when not busy, discuss aspects of working on cars with me, lending their training to me so that I can better understand what I would like to do. Watching them pull three parts off a modern car to get to the part buried under them makes me very happy with the quality of the engineering on my MGs. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| I didn't start the thread to criticise the MGB just a few design changes I would have made which were available at the time the car was designed. Changes which would have lead to cheaper and faster production and/or more efficiency in the operation of a particular system such as elimination of the brake box. More changes: Electric Harnesses Why did they use a seperate harness to go to the lefthand side of the car? The area where the harnesses are connected is the worst possible area as it is subjected to the elements. Why and for what purpose couldn't they have made a 1 piece harness like in almost every other car? Why weren't bulb holders included in the dash harness as in every other car and not attached to a rust prone connection? |
| Mike MaGee |
| "Why did they use a seperate harness to go to the lefthand side of the car?" If they did it was only on LHD cars, on RHD cars the main harness went to both sides of the car and so did the rear harness. Maybe LHD versions are just a kludge palmed off on the colonials so the real afficionados could keep enjoying the marque ;o) "Why weren't bulb holders included in the dash harness" Until the mid 70s they were. After that I suggest it was deemed cheaper to assemble the dash complete with its own sub-harness in one location, the car with its main harness in another, then simply plug the two together. Compared with the connections immediately behind the grill where the front lights and horns connect to the main harness any connectors inside the cabin lead a relatively cosseted life. "All MGs are perfect, different models and years just being differently so", to paraphrase Napoleon in Animal Farm. |
| Paul Hunt 2 |
| I would not change a thing about the MG. I am one of those guys that thinks "if it ant broke don't fix it" The guys at MG must have known something about automotive technology or the would not have worked there. I have a very hard time beliving that there was someone behind a desk trying to screw things up just so we would be sitting here on a board in 2005 trying to figure out what they where thinking and how to change things. Remimber this is 2005 and the first B's were introduced in 1964 thats 41 years difference in technology so its not fair to compare the cars of then to cars we drive now or technology of 2005. I belive that the product they produces were the very best they could given the times and yes I would be consitered a purist without cars that are as original as humanly possable there would not be "Bastardized" car to enjoy today so although I do injoy driving modern cars there is no feeling like driving a quality original TA Tickford down a country road in the fall looking forward to a nice glass of red wine at the end |
| Jeremiah Randolph |
| 72 BGT. Upgrade the lighting using relays and maybe an HID conversion. Create and then mount power adjustable vintage bullet mirrors with turn indicators behind the mirrored glass. Swap to a multilink rear suspension or an IRS. A front end with newfangled balljoints and a midsized GM spindle to allow BIG brakes cheap. Caster and Camber adjustable front end. Center console with touch screen combining stereo video and GPS running off an old laptop mounted in the boot. Higher output on the heater and defrost unit. Regards, Brian C. |
| Brian Corrigan |
| Oh yeah, and a twin turbo 3.4 V6 running a modified GM ECU with the ability to load different maps including a valet mode from the aforementioned touchscreen.... And a collapsible steering column like the later cars or at least a mid shaft using Borgeson joints. What do you mean it isn't still an MG? |
| Brian Corrigan |
| "I have a very hard time beliving that there was someone behind a desk trying to screw things up just so we would be sitting here on a board in 2005 trying to figure out what they where thinking and how to change things." You're forgetting about accountants. They always think about the cheapest way to do things, not the best. Left to engineers most products would be overengineered, over time and well over budget. There has to be a compromise. Look at things like how the rear lights changed. The originals were beautifully shaped. The later ones square and ugly. I am sure there was some cost cutting involved in that change. |
| Simon Jansen |
| How about redesigning the choke cable so that the center of the cable actuates the choke instead of the cable cover. Dumbest thing I ever saw. |
| Jeff |
| Brian- Just sell your MG to someone that will apprecieate it for what it is "a classic" and buy an AMERICAN piece of CR*P you will be much happier! |
| Jeremiah Randolph |
| I disagree with Jeremiah reagrding the 'wisdom' of the engineers who worked at MG or maybe I should say the accountants. I've restored and worked on several kinds of cars designed prior to, and in conjunction with, when the MGB was designed and there were much more modern and cost effective ways to do things which MG chose not to incorporate. The mantra "if it ant broke don't fix it" is a poor excuse as we'd all still be riding horses if that were true. I heard the same crap in college and argued with the instructors who barfed up that excuse. The problem with British design is that mantra was employed too often and led to the subsequent demise of the British auto companies. While you may have that attitude, the general population does not agree with it or else we'd still be driving Model Ts, both Ford and MG. All of the suggestions I made are valid and in many cases would have saved the company money and all were available at the time the MGB was designed. For example the pedal box. Redesigning the brake and clutch masters with the pushrods on the opposite end and affixed to the firewall would have eliminated the need for the pedal box and cover and the multitude of screws/bolts required for assembly and saved on assembly costs. Motor/tranny mounts. A redesign of the mounts would have made assembly easier and quicker using less parts. Heater valve. A ball cock valve is a lot cheaper to manufacture than the design employed and less prone to leakage. Rear Tube shocks. If tube shocks were used it would have eliminated a big cost in the manufacture of the lever shock and the shock link and would have been quicker to assemble using less parts. Some may just accept things as they are but I never belonged to that group. At my job I am always trying to devise new ways to make my tasks more efficient and sometimes I rock the boat but at least I'm thinking about ways to improve systems and cost effeciency. |
| Mike MaGee |
| Improve the MGB? How about restyling the body with smoother flowing lines? Oh, sorry, then it would be an MGA......:-) |
| Bill Spohn |
| Jeremiah, It is my car and I will do with it as I please. You are free to do the same with your car. However, you are not in a position to judge what will make me happy. I've owned my 72 BGT for 11 years during which time I rebuilt every system to function as new or better with my own hands and my own tools. Other than the machine work on the engine (.030 over and reground crank), I did it all myself including engine rebuild, new clutch, new gearbox bearings and seals, Weber sidedraft, relayed wiring, halogen cats eyes, electronic fuel pump, new hydraulics throughout, new driveshaft bearings, wheel bearings, axle bearings, rear leaf springs, welded in new sills, castles, floors, fender bottoms etc.. The list goes on. As it stands it is a tasteful stock grand tourer. My 3.4 v6 conversion will for many years be factory fuel injection. It will have twin catalytic converters giving a near ten-fold reduction in emissions. The brakes will be stronger, the handling will be better. The steering mod will make it more survivable in the event of a crash. The original MG was designed to accomodate an independent rear suspension, but due to cost it is a solid axle. The car as built was a compromise. You are free to enjoy it as is. I am free to modify as I see fit. Don't throw stones at my decision just because you are ignorant or uniformed. This is a civil forum, we don't have to agree with each other, but we should behave with civility. Regards, Brian C. |
| Brian Corrigan |
| "Brian- Just sell your MG to someone that will apprecieate it for what it is "a classic" and buy an AMERICAN piece of CR*P you will be much happier!" I can't speak for Brian, but I can tell you why I modify my MGB instead of buying an American car - because I DAMN WELL WANT TO! End of discussion. I don't ask any one's permission or approval, nor do I offer any to anyone else. What you think of my decision has absolutely no value whatever. I'm not at all offended by your opinion, but I am greatly offended that you feel the need to pass it on in such an arrogant, **shole manner to those of us who obviously are of a different opinion. Nobody asked you. Nobody cares. |
| Dan Masters |
| I did not mean to offend ANYONE and aparently I have I'm truly sorry for that. What I stated was just my opinion and just that MINE. I would not tell a painter of fine art to change his art nor would I expect him to just for me. I view MG's as a well designed piece of classic automotive history and I try to preserve every one I can find if at all possable in there ORIGINAL state as they came off the line. Yes there are exceptions to EVERY rule the rust bucket basket cases wrecks that can not be repaired to be placed back on the motorways however in MY OPINION these cars should be used as parts cars for possable restoration projects. My point was that if we continue to "modernize" these cars there will not be ANY original cars left to pass on to our kids or grandkids or for reference cars for proper restorations. I have had individuals come up to me at shows and thank me for NOT changing a thing on my MG and stated how refreshing it is to see a car that someone has not tried to change, my MG has been photographed a number of times for reference on restorations. So I ask where do you draw the line? In MY OPINION to try to modernize MG's (other than for saftey) is taking away from what the original designers had intended them to be a fun CHEAP means of transportation that has unwittly evolved into a piece of fine automotive history. This bears never more true that now, that there is NO British automobles being build today and if there is any hope of a new MG being built it will no dought come with owners manuals in Chinese. The position that if we don't support change we would still be driving model T's both Ford and MG's is correct I do not have an issue with this but does this mean we should install air bags on the Model T or put anti-lock brakes on the TD, how about installing computer controlled navigations on a Model A, GPS on a Triumph TR2 would be nice....this is my point people, not to offend. Everyone has the right to do what they want to there cars and I support this whole heartly but lets keep it within reason and remimber once the original cars are gone they are gone FOR GOOD ! I continually remind myself of this and ask myself at what point is it no longer considered "original" ? If I cover the original paint on the car after 35 years or what if I throw a rod and drop in a new block is it still original yes and no it is original to the B but not original to MY B so do I now have a restored B? In concourse compatition points are deducted for these issues. Everytime I replace a part or am tempted to upgrade a part I consiter these issues... Again I did not set out to offend just DE-fend MY POINT !!!!! |
| Jeremiah Randolph |
| Changes to the MGB over the years, in a lot of instances, where because of rules and regulations in different countries. Hence the rubber bumper's and rear tail light change, also the demise of the pretty banjo steering wheel etc.This was especially evident in North America. However saying that I find my wifes 79 LE with O/D and A/C more user friendly and a better road car than either of our previous MGB's a 73 Roadster and a 70 BGT. As for look's the chrome bumper wins hands down. mgb tops are a disaster, obviously they were'nt designed by the German company Karman. For look's and great convertible top, that goes up and down with ease I switch to our 63 Healey 3000. Enjoy the MGB for what it is, modify it , why not, it's not a high buck car, so what is there to lose. Kim R. |
| K Rutherford |
| Jeremiah, "I did not mean to offend ANYONE" Well, actually, you intended to offend me. What part of: "Brian- Just sell your MG to someone that will apprecieate it for what it is ...and buy an AMERICAN piece of CR*P" is not meant to be offensive? The part where you insult my use of the vehicle...or the part where you insult American automobiles generally. So then I guess the MGBGTV8 would be an American piece of crap? Buick derived aluminum V8, no? You are entitled to do what you wish with your vehicle, so don't insult me for doing the same. Please oh please, after being intentionally offensive, do not then feign ignorance when I call you out on it and offer a vague wave in the direction of an apology. In you continuing appreciation of all things English, I would suggest you add the following to the list: Manners or at least the spine to stand behind an insult when you hurl one. Regrets, Brian C. |
| Brian Corrigan |
| Brian- I am man enough to admit a mistake and extend a hand, it is up to you to accept. I have stated my position and stand behind it now let it go and move on. I see that you are as passionate about your car as I am about my MG's and Triumph's and I commend you for that I do own and drive an American truck as daily winter drivers and for towing my British cars if need be. I have nothing in general aginst American iron they have a place as well in automotive history ie.. Corvette's are nice but over priced, pick ups have a use for hauling and towing and the Model A' and T's where before there time. My issues are with OVER designing a car to the point that one needs a service tech. or "special tools" just to service your car. The American car companies have a monoply on service, ether a part MUST come from a dealer or to find out what is wrong with your car it takes a computer program that is ONLY to be used by a "Authorized" trained brand specific mechanics why can't we the general public go out and buy these programs and use them on our home computers to work on our own cars? The simplicity of vintage British or European cars for that matter are very simple to work on and understand. May I take a moment to point out that if it was not for the AC Bristol (a British car)Carol Shelby and America would not have the privlage of having the Shelby Cobra. But I belive we have gotten away from my original point which was PRESERVE the MG's and ALL Eauropean cars when at all possable but if you wish to modernize them leave some facimility of what the designers had in mind and RESPECT there efforts ! J. |
| Jeremiah Randolph |
| Jeremiah, I hate to be the one to say it, but your opinion is your opinion. You're not going to convince anyone to agree with you. The MGB is a lot like today's Honda Civic - its a very affordable car that people want to personalize. Of course there are collectors who will keep them pristine original, and there are those who go overboard (like me) me with changes. Accept us for what we are and don't expect us to be like you, then we'll all get along! You should appreciate our "unoriginal" cars because they raise the value of your car! Preservation is what we're all doing by maintaining and driving MGs - original or not. By the way, Carroll Shelby bastardized the hell out of the AC Bristol to make one of the greatest sports cars of all time. Why don't you get on his case next (spoken tongue-in-cheek.) Would you like the MGB better if the engineers gave it 50 more horsepower and better handling? I bet they wanted to! I'd bet they preferred leather interior and better tires too, but the accountants prevailed so that YOU could afford to buy one. I just want to live up to the engineers's dreams of what the B could have been! |
| Jeff Schlemmer |
| What engineering changes would I have made at the factory if I had been in charge? I would've continued development of the coil spring five-link parallel arm rear suspension of the first MBG prototype, complete with Panhard rod. I would also have standardized on a developed version of the torsion bar front suspension of the MGC. I would've purchased the production rights to the Derrington crossflow head and introduced a high performance option complete with disc rear brakes, too. |
| Steve S. |
| Jeff- You make very valid points and I do respect both you AND Brian and your opinions although I don't think I will be recieving a Christmas card any time soon from Brian and yes I may not agree with the changes I see but I must accept the fact that individuality with ones car is not always a bad thing. I admit I have been giving some thought to adding a AC equipt wire wheeled split chrome bumper 1970 BGT or 69 CGT with black leather with red piping interior factory folding moon roof to my garage and trying my hand at improving on what MG produced but limiting the mods to what I think MG would have offered if MG was producing a US export car today ie... Alum. cross flow heads shaved, ported and polished, 4 into 2 header dumping into a 2 1/2 full stainless steel free flow exhaust, roller rockers with hydrolic lifters, moli-chrome pistons, side draft Weber carbs, Alum. lightened Flywheel, larger valves, MSD EI's, high tork gear reduction starter, four wheel independent carbon fiber disk brakes, 17 in. cross drilled vented rotors w/ 4 piston calipers and cooling ducts, remote dual oil setup, oversized Alum. radi. with all steel braided lines and "earl" fittings, linked to a 6 speed short throw trans. and a 4 link 9 bolt posi-trac rear all based on the original MG platform but I draw the line at someone trying to stuff a bottle fed, fuel injected 390, 454 or a Corvette LH1 under the bonnet and calling it "slightly modified" What I don't have issues with are individuals making improvments in the name of saftey like dumping original ply tyres for radial or improved braking or night ilumination, retroing seat harnesses where there was none to begin with in fact it is the law here state side. In short EVERYONE has the right to do whatever they wish to there own cars.. I was raised in and around high end fine British restoration shops and this is and will always be my mentality and you are absolutly correct this is MY opinion and only my opinion and everyone has a right to there own. |
| Jeremiah Randolph |
| On Saturday my girlfriend's Citroen broke down (fuel delivery problem) and the roadside recovery guy got out of his van carrying a single combination spanner. I am struggling to think of a single MGB job that just requires one spanner size. That would be nice. |
| Alec |
| Hi Steve, I would have updated the twin-cam head rather than mess with the Derrington head. |
| Lee Bradley |
| Jeremiah, I have no issue with your view of "preserving the history" of these cars. I am thankful that many take that approach ensuring that many examples will be preserved in an as-built state for years to come. I also understand your passion, the only problem I had is how you first chose to express it. By all means preserve the history. So anyone have an Idea on how to modify bullet mirrors with led turnsignal lights behind them? Regards, Brian C. |
| Brian Corrigan |
| Brian, any glass shop should be able to cut the two-way mirror for you. There are also plenty of led trailer lights available cheap that you could cut up and place inside the mirror. Not sure how to hide the wire though, otherwise it sounds like a single-Saturday job! |
| Jeff Schlemmer |
| Aside from the periodic "flames and bantering" this has been a GREAT thread! There will be a golden opportunity to discuss these topics with an individual "in the know"....that being Don Hayter...Chief Design Engineer of the MGB....when he attends MG 2006 in Gatlinburg, Tennessee in June! rick |
| rick ingram |
| The wonderful thing about the MGB is that it is almost perfect. It is the 'almost' that makes it so loved. Every person who owns one is convinced that they could improve the car. The thing is that they are absolutly right. The guy that designed the outside was brilliant, the guy that 'designed' the inside was most definitly not. On my '75 I have; Put the chrome bumpers back on. Put in the V8, got better engine compartment ventilation by using RV8 extractors. Have a roof I can put up or down in about 10 seconds, even when driving. (the secret is not having rear the quater windows). Removed the horrible leyland steering wheel and fitted the motoliter steering wheel (a symphony in polished aluminium and wood) Actualy got the American style dash to look good and the glove compartment to close properly. When completeing these projects my pride was absolutly sinful to behold (especialy the last!). I am not finished- Trailing arm suspension next, then either putting in a double petroltank where the batteries are, or cutting a hole through/extending the boot so I can relocate the spare (what WAS the point of the large space behind the seats?. I might even supercharge it. It is the journey that matters, not the destination! |
| Peter |
| "I think MG would have offered if MG was producing a US export car today ie... Alum. cross flow heads shaved, ported and polished" Shaving a head is a BAD thing to do and screws up the valve geometry. Had the factory offered an alloy head for the MGB they would certainly have cast it to the compression ratio they wanted in the first place. |
| Bill Spohn |
| A little late to the discussion here but the prototype B had side repeater lights mounted just ahead of the front doors and above the chrome strip. I am sure they are a standard production item but I have no idea which one. There are a few photos showing them but the most often reproduced is the overhead view with the very attractive female driver wearing a headscarf and the car has the two spoked steering wheel. Personally I think these seem to look right and fit in well with the design. Also the B was never inteded to have IRS. The original plan was four trailing arms , coil spring and live axle with Watts liinkage for location. This was later changed to a Panhard rod to help cut costs but this too was thought to be more expensive than could be justified at the time. Cost constraints meant the arrangement from the A was carried forward and the leaf springs were angled slightly to help alleviate some of the understeer. Interesting thread. Cheers , Pete. |
| Peter Thomas |
| As Peter points out, my earlier posting comment regarding early MGB development with IRS was incorrect. To support Peter's comment, here is a quote from "MGB Owner's Survival Manual" by Jim Tyler. "Originally the car was designed and tested with coil springs and radius arm rear suspension (although not independent rear suspenstion) to improve ride over the leaf-spring live axle MGA." Mention is made of problems with lateral location of the axle with this setup. Two modifications to this were tested and rejected before reverting back to a leaf-spring live axle: Watts linkage (rejected because of cost) and Panhard rod (rejected because of rear wheel steering). The point still remains (in my opinion) the consequence and legacy of the early rear suspension design is the large amount of unused space around the axle that might have allowed different packaging options such as dual tanks where the battery boxes are now. Martin. |
| Martin Handforth |
| Further up this thread Steve S from Virginia said he would have "standardized on a developed version of the torsion bar front suspension of the MGC". My reaction was why? So I started thinking about torsion bars and the car that used them such as the Jaguar E-type. Then I realised they normally function in line with the lower inboard pivot so they are part of the sprung weight and not part of the unsprung weight. Do they have any other technical advantages? David |
| David Witham |
| I had to think about this for some time and then throw my hat into the ring. My nod of respect to those folks whose ideas I may have inadvertantly duplicated while writing this. Nothing too radical here. No U.S. engine swaps or fancy-schmanzy suspension mods. Nothing Abington could not have handled internally. Here's my "Wish List" had I been able to be a design consultant for Abington in 1969... * The entire body shell would be immersed in a bath of electro-statically charged rust proofer-primer, 4 times, prior to finishing. * Body metalwork would include pre-punched locations for stereo speakers (4 of ‘em). * Tapped hardpoints for a bolt-in rollbar (dealer installed option, or aftermarket). * Stronger seat rail mounting points (floorpan) to further resist metal fatigue and cracking. * The dash would be a 3-section, modular design - with an emphasis on user-friendly service access. * Chrome windshield trim on the GT’s redesigned for easier push-on installation. * The hood (bonnet) stay would be longer so that the hood could be opened more widely. * A braided-steel actuation cable would replace the clutch hydraulics. * An electronic Smiths speedometer. * 15" x 6.5" Rostyle factory wheels. * Bigger, vented, front brake disks and calipers. * Rear disk brakes. * The front suspension kingpins would be replaced with ball joints. * Factory set, 1/2 degree negative front wheel camber. * Simplify the front spindles so that shims and a spacer (and a dial indicator) are no longer needed to preload the front wheel bearings. * Properly engineered and tested tube-type shocks would replace the lever shocks. * 5-speed transmission. 6-speed trans, optional. * Driveshaft U-joint yokes to utilize bolt-on retaining caps, instead of closed yokes & circlips. * Leaf springs retained. Over-rider axle traction bars installed - like those on the '65 Shelby Mustang. * Threaded freeze plugs on the engine block - similar to those on the Boss 302 Mustang. * Thicker, stronger, engine head studs – similar to those used on the Jaguar DOHC 6. * Utilize the "Lost Foam" method to cast the head and block as it is more accurate than using cores made of sand. Engine could be strengthened & lightened slightly. * The area where the block and head join together would be externally thickened or bolstered to further resist cracking, warpage. * Engine tappet gallery would have a retaining groove cast on the block to prevent the tappet cover gaskets from shifting and leaking. * A 15%-20% higher volume engine oil pump. * Camshaft oil spray bar. * The crankshaft rear main bearing journal would have an oil thrower ring. * Rocker cover would have a internal deflector to help divert oil runoff away from the cover gasket. * 4-row, heavy-duty radiator w/drain valve. (…why doesn't anybody offer this as an all-new, no core needed, catalog item???) * Ball-type heater valve - re-located away from the distributor; mounted in-line with hoses fed from a revised, higher capacity water pump. * Bosch 55 amp alternator (or better) as OEM standard. * Weatherproof wire harness connectors would replace the "bullet" type connectors. * The entire wire harness would be upgraded to the next thicker wire guage size. ie: All 20 guage wires would be upped to 18 guage; all 16 guage wires would be upped to 14 guage, etc. * 3.70 rear axle gear ratio on the GT's. 3.90 rear axle gear ratio would remain on the roadsters. * Intermittent windshield wipers. * Steering column with tapered roller bearings instead of bushings. * Steering arms re-shaped for less bump steer. * Heavy-duty, positive click contact (audibly soft), mechanical brake lamp switch. * The headlamp circuit would utilize a power relay and a dedicated fuse. * Lockable, hinged, non-vented, Sebring aluminum fuel filler cap. Today (2005): I'd offer the chrome-bumpered MGB and B/GT with stamped-steel Sebring flares - as a rolling "kit car"; with a market strategy targeted towards hot-street, rally, and vintage club racing, ala: Lotus Super Seven. |
| Daniel Wong |
| " I'd bet they preferred leather interior and better tires too, but the accountants prevailed so that YOU could afford to buy one." Jeff, MGs had leather seats and door panels from the factory. Not sure when that ended. Early to mid 70s? |
| Carl Floyd |
| crack of doom. |
| fractured one |
| This will set your pulses raceing A stainless steel body. as an option. Imagine, a stainless steel MGB. Given the amount of money and rebuilds these things generaly go through, it would actualy be cheaper in the long term ( I rationalize). Anyone want one? They are still building bodies so it's not too late. Maybe a short run?. Because there would be no corrosion concerns (and stainless is stronger/tougher) they could even build much lighter. I suspect they could hold an auction with some pretty frantic bidding. |
| Peter |
| Interesting thread. I would go for many of the changes already mentioned, particulary those which would have been simple modernizations like a simple top mechanism as used by Fiat and others at the same time these cars were being produced. One I would like to have seen was development of a different head than the siamesed port arrangement used until the end of production. One thing I would like transfer to the 'merican cars and trucks I have owned from my 68 MGBGT, is the stalk mounted horn button ~ much easier to hit when needed (at least for me) than taking a hand off the steering wheel to mash the good old fashioned horn button. Also, a better thought out wiring harness and the possible use of relays for lighting. I say this out of ignorance, I suppose, but I found it rather telling in its own perverse way that moving the headlamp filament loads OUT OF the OE harness path (and the lever dimmer switch) and into relays (as discussed by Daniel Stern and others) automatically increased the brightness of the dash lamps, even tho they had not been involved in the changeover. Said to me that the distribution of the load was not optimal. And if not optimal there, how about elsewhere? And other years than just mine? |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| I found the correct space saver tire at P&Pull with holdown and cover, packed the umbrella area with spares, jumper, etc, then bolt her down and zip her cover on. Nice spacemaker for $12 each ( did it to all the roadsters!). On the V-6 conversion I have fashioned space for the single bat on pass side next to heater , cut out the old bat mounts below tray and will mount another 14 gallon tank there from Summit. Perhaps in the future, I may move the space saver spare to where the stock tank goes if I choose to resite the EFI sump and pump!Cheers Vic |
| vem myers |
| Bigface! Nice to hear you back son!!! Vic |
| vem myers |
| Lee- I would also prefer an 1800cc five main bearing version of the Twincam engine, but would it fit under the hood? David- Like a coil spring, the diameter of the material of which a torsion bar is made dictates its initial resistance. However, the rate at which the resistance of a torsion bar increases can be varied by altering its length without effecting ride height. The torsion bar suspension of the MGC uses tubular dampers instead of lever arm dampers, a desirable feature in view of the reduced unsprung weight of the more supple torsion bar suspension. Vic- Howyadoin'? |
| Steve S. |
| Peter- Stainless steel is heavy and difficult to work. How about a fully galvanized body instead? Much more affordable. Daniel- Great ideas. How about using the heater box mounted heater valve from the MGC? |
| Steve S. |
| Almost all of the changes I recommended would have saved money and made assembly easier with technology that was available at the time. Everyone I spoke to who has worked on MGBs have agreed with most of my recommendations and we're not talking about rocket science. I wish I could have been on the design/engineering team at MGto interject some of my thoughts. Sure a 5 speed would have been nice but there weren't many available at the time except in the high end cars. A galvanized body would have also been nice but that process didn't become widely used until the 80s although better priming and sealants would have made the cars last longer but I don't thing the factory had the idea thatthe cars would still be driven 40 years after they were first introduced. |
| Mike MaGee |
| IMHO a 5-speed always has been a retrograde step and still is, the standard gearbox and OD gives you six speeds after all (with the exception of late North American models). OD 3rd is very useful for long inclines or twisty bits. |
| Paul Hunt 2 |
| Steve, Could be a problem; if only there was a bubble bonnet that would fit a B. ;-) |
| Lee Bradley |
| Steve S: I'm with Mr. Myers: glad to see you're back. Hope all is well, and that you'll stick around. This place has been a lot less interesting in your absence. |
| Marvin Deupree |
| Lee- I wonder if an RV8 bonnet would've given enough clearance? I'd hate to see the smooth, flowing lines of the car interrupted by lumps and bulges. Marvin- Nice to hear from you. |
| Steve S. |
| k series under the bonnet or mga twin cam all synchro box on mine wider tyres dics all round twin speed wiprs better heater electric soft top cd player think im dreaming now |
| d buck |
This thread was discussed between 09/11/2005 and 25/11/2005
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