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MG MGB Technical - Ethanol Gas - E0 vs E10

The new Hagerty’s Magazine has a very good article on ethanol gasoline (E10) verses non-ethanol gasoline (E0), and how it affects cars and their fuel systems.

The article basically concludes that it really does not make much difference.

So my question to everyone is, “What do you think?” Which do you use in your MG’s and other cars? Have you noticed any evidence that the ethanol gas is harming your car and/or fuel system? What about performance? Does it make any difference to you?

I know from personal use that I get better gas milage with non-ethanol gas. I have tested this in several of my cars - older cars and new cars - and in every case I get up to four miles per gallon more with E0 verses E10 gas, in the same driving conditions.

Another question: are you able to find non-ethanol gas? I only know of two locations to get it and I live in a large city.

Also, I know that maybe this should have been posted on the "General" site instead of the "Technical" site, but I wanted to get your views from a technical standpoint.


Cheers,

Robert
Robert Browning

Robert. I am not sure of all the terms. I am assuming, perhaps a mistake, that by E-10 you mean gasoline with is 90% petroleum based and 10% alcohol based. We have been required to use such fuels for quite a number of years here in the Phoenix area. Thus, I have a fairly good idea of the problems associated with its use.

First, I have had no mechanical problems associated with the use of 10% ethanol fuels. No problems with the fuel pumps, no problems with the fuel lines, hard or rubber, nor with the carbs (SU and Weber DGV).

The lower miles per gallon is noted, but we have had more of a change than you note. It is interesting that lowering the petroleum content of the fuel from 100% to 90% results in a more than 10% reduction in fuel economy on both the MGs and the new Mini Cooper. On a recent trip of 3K+ miles, the worst highway fuel economy was 29 MPG, on 10% ethanol, and the best fuel economy was just over 39 MPG on pure, petroleum fuel. Average fuel economy was just under 36 MPG. Yes, the addition of alcohol to the fuel seems to significantly lower the fuel mileage, resulting in the purchase of more fuel and paying more federal and state taxes (which are based on the sale of each gallon of fuel) per mile traveled.

In addition, the alcohol fuel seems to be less stable than pure, petroleum based fuels. Even after adding the required amount of fuel tank stabilizer prior to going on a three week vacation, evaporation of about 1/8th of a tank per vehicle was noted when we got back home. I wonder if the fuel stabilizer works on the petroleum base, but not the alcohol?

I am not a great fan of the blended fuels.

Les
Les Bengtson

I, too, have noticed a significant drop in fuel milage. I CA you can only purchase E-10. Though reported by some, I have not experienced any degredation to the fuel system. However, it has removed the paint below my fuel fill cap when the front of the car was raised for several hours with a full tank and bright sunlight. RAY
rjm RAY

Les,

E0 - is straight petroleum gasoline
E10 - is 90% petroleum gasoline and 10% ethanol.

Sorry for not being clear on that in the beginning.

Also, it is interesting in that I have been reading where some people say that the ethanol does damage and breaks down the fuel systems.

I wonder????

Robert

Robert Browning

Robert. Thank you for the definition. I had thought that to be the case. But, here in the two Arizona counties required to run such fuel it has simply been known as "oxygenated fuels" and has been either a 10% ethanol product or a 15% MBTE (spelling?) product. The latter was dropped when it was found that the additive was more harmful to the environmental system than plain gasoline was. Another example of the fact that legislatures are designed to pass laws, but not to solve problems. Although problem solving is, sometimes, a by product of passing the laws.

As to the question of why some people may be having problems with newly introduced 10% ethanol fuels, I wonder how many of the problems are being experienced by people having older vehicles which are seldom used? Our cars are all drivers. Hence, frequent fill ups with fresh fuel, annual changes of fuel filters (or annual cleaning and rebuilding is some cases) and all of the rubber fuel lines have been replaced within the last ten years. How well a 20 year old rubber fuel hose, made for a different fuel formulation than is in current use now, would hold up if required to run the "E-10" would be worth investigating. If you could find someone with 20 year old rubber lines. In Arizona, if the rubber holds up for three years it has lasted longer than average.

Les
Les Bengtson

Ethyl alcohol has a significantly lower heat of combustion than hydrocarbons, both on a weight and volume basis. So it is not surprising that we get fewer mpg (or more L/100km), since heat is what makes the motor go! What about E-85? Any users? The other effect is that the fuel vapour pressure is higher, so more evaporation loss.
Art Pearse

With a little work, I can still find premium 100% gasoline here in Wisconsin. A few stations even advertise that they sell 100% gasoline.

What worries me is that they are talking about going to E15.
Bruce-C

with a mod eng i use sunoco 240 w/octane boost. next step is racing fuel. i don't worry about gas milage. who cares. just drive.
dab donald a baker

This thread was discussed between 11/09/2009 and 27/09/2009

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