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MG MGB Technical - Garage lifts and pits

I may give myself an early Christmas present and install a lift. Or maybe a pit. A 4-post lift will barely fit in my shop and will really make it crowded. Maybe a 2-post lift would work. Also thinking maybe just a pit would be better. I have an old copy of Classic and Sportscar that has an article on how to install the prefabricated "Mech Mate motor pit." You basically dig the pit and then insert the Mech Mate. Does anyone in the US offer a similar package? Or do you know of any existing designs for a good pit? What's your opinion of lift versus pit?

My back feels better already.

Thanks
Tom Custer

I've always considered a pit. I've also considered the possibility of a pit large enough for a lift to lower into. Seems more logical than setting one on the ground. No earthquake worries either. I figure I'm paying for this land and what's underneath it. May as well use all I can! I have no idea where to start though.
Steve Simmons

Tom. The mechanic who services my American cars just installed a two post lift with all of the parts located above ground. Cost was about $2K. Two post lifts have four arms which come outwards and support the car on the frame. This allows brake and suspension work to be done. The four post lifts I have seen have been the drive on kind that would not allow such work. All of the four post lifts I have seen required underground support systems (hydraulics) rather than the above ground systems which, to me, would be more desirable. I have not yet taken an MG down to put it on his two post lift, but would be concerned about proper support. The MG is a relatively small car and supporting it at the front and rear of the sills does not seem to be as stable as when I support it under the spring pans and rear axle.

As to a pit, I have used them in the past, but do not like them very well. You are limited to a pit which is somewhat narrower than the inner width of the tires. The pits have a raised lip around them so you cannot, without trying to, drive into the pit. Works fairly well with big cars, but gets to be very narrow when set up for small cars. They also take up more space because they have to be considerably longer than the car as you need the steps to get down into them. If you need tools, you have to go back up and get them. No wheres near as convenient as a lift and fully as restrictive as to what you can do as a drive in lift. Also, more difficult to clean out than a concrete pad with a lift on it. Les
Les Bengtson

Les, excellent points. I also wonder if a 2-post lift which lifts the car at the chassis rails, could possibly distort the chassis/body by applying different amounts of force at the contact points -- in other words, if the four arms on the lift do not all move at the same time and at the same rate. But I guess this isn't any different than lifting with a jack at the side or corner of the car and using jack stands. A couple of guys in our local club recently purchased electric/hydraulic 4-post lifts and they are very nice and easy to operate. But they do take up a lot of valuable floor space. One of the options on the 4-post lift is a sliding jack plate which allows you to use a jack (e.g. bottle jack) to raise the car off the ramps so you could, for example, do suspension or brake work.

Having spent so many hours using jack stands and lying on my back while restoring the mga (like all of us motor heads!!), I thought it would really be a luxury to have a lift while restoring the bgt.

Tom
Tom Custer

Guys,
Wish I could remember where, but I saw a lift that worked like two parallell "See Saws". You slowly drive up the ramps & when the weight is right the ramps go horizontal and you lower stands built in to lock 'em in place. Eastwood? Northern Equipment?? They're out there for around 1.5K or thereabouts.
FWIW,
Doug
D Sjostrom

D, I see where a company called Autolifters makes the ramps you describe. However, the total "lift" is only about 20 inches or so -- still have to get down on the floor. But at least you could lay on one of those mechanic's roller units and roll around!! One of our club members bought a 4-post lift from Autolifters. It's really a neat setup.

Tom
Tom Custer

I have a 2 post lift and wouldn't be without it.

The four arms are carried on two carriages so that two arms each side have to stay level and the two carriages are connected by a control wire that ensures they rise and fall at the same rate.

Most lifts have an H shaped base that is about 2 inches high - sink this into the concrete floor so that you don't have to drive the car over the centre part of the base (easier when hand pushing!) and you don't trip over the sides of the base when working.

It has built in safety controls that stop you doing anything silly!

The arms locate perfectly under a B - front ones on the chassis rail under the footwell and rear ones on the front spring hanger. The weight distribution is as good as you will get.

The only problem is that working on the sills (rockers) is hampered by the arms.

Also make sure you have enough room at the side of the lift to walk round it - if the posts are close to a wall then you will end up either climbing over the arms or going under the car to get from one end to the other.

Ensure you have enough height, and if the lift plus car will touch the ceiling then get a safety limit switch fitted to the ceiling above the car.
Chris Betson

Technically in your pit, you would be exposed to a fire hazard, a chemical waste hazard, and a confined space hazard which could bring all manner of nasties such as noxious gas poisoning etc...

This is why they are no longer used in garages and that they use lifts.

That fact that any spills from your car are more likely go to groundwater from a pit unless you had paid money for a very good install, also means that there is an environment issue.

They are also harder to light a pit... The light tends to get "left" in the pit rather than go up to the base of the car.

I think a lift would do most things for most people much easier, quicker and more efficiently. There are also built in safety components to the lift as Chris mentions.

You may also have a problem with keeping the groundwater out of your pit, depending on how deep you went and how high your base groundwater level is. You will also need to bear in mind your foundations of the garage (and possibly the house depending on the location of the garage), and to some extent what the geological material is beneath your house. Wouldn't do you much good cutting a great hole in the middle of your foundation floor slab to put a pit in without adding further reinforcement. If the floor is merely a floor and takes no load then this is not a problem.

We put a pit in a mates new garage he built to the side of his house, so we were able to design it in from the outset. After we built it however, we realised that a lift would have done for most tasks more easily and of course once they sold the house, the previous owners didn't want the pit and so filled it with a helluva lotta concrete!! The lift would have unbolted and come along to the new house...

Just some thoughts to keep you going! ;->

~PHIL
Phil

Some garages still use pits. I remember a few years ago having a cup of Tea with an mg specialist who shall remain nameless. He was suffering from a severe bout of cognitive dissonance exacerbated by pit cleaning.
This was caused by the need to give a right bollocking to the YTS trainee who had comitted the sin of omitting the sump plug and proceeding to pour three gallons of engine oil through the car into the pit, but was prevented from doing so by the knowledge that he'd done exactly the same thing many moons earlier, when first let loose "solo" on an oil change....
T J C Cuthill

As a teenager, my first summer job was at a truckstop out west. Being junior man, my main job was doing routine oil changes and grease jobs (this being forty odd years ago, when the time between oil changes was shorter). I didn't mind the cars, as I could put them up on the lift, where I had some light and air circulation. Trucks, however, went over the pit, which was poorly lit, and rapidly heated to 100+ degrees. You could only stay down there about 20 minutes before having to come up for air or would get physically ill. I could not imagine being in a little MG sized pit...The truck sized one was a foretaste of hell.
R. L Carleen

Seems like a good percent of the time we're working on wheels, brakes or suspension, for which a pit is useless.

But on the plus side, a pit would be much easier to hide in when the wife comes out to tell you to get in the house.
Fred Horstmeyer

Hi Tom,

I do not have a lift, but I can give you my thoughts.

Forget the pit. Unless you build an Jiffy Lube style pit, it can be a death trap.

The old style "X" lifts, with the center column make it very difficult to get to the exhaust, etc. My wife's father put one of these in years ago and I have used it for my '64 B.

The two-post lift would be ideal if you can afford one. John Twist uses 2-post lifts at University Motors. I just did a quick search and the cheapest one I found in this five minute search was $4200, so the $2000 your mechanic paid is a great bargain.

I have looked at the Backyard Buddy, which is a four post lift. You need to buy other attachments to lift the wheels off the ramps.

http://www.backyardbuddy.com/

If it were me, I would get the $2K 2-post lift.


Bill Barge




Bill Barge

Another thing to consider, if you need the space, is a storage lift. One car is stored on the raised lift, a second is parked underneath

Just don't forget to move the one below before lowering the lift!

Bud
Bud G

Every place I worked used 2-post lifts, and I found that they worked quite well. The in-ground lifts are great, but cost prohibitive for most folks. The above ground 2-posters seem to work nearly as well -- the only drawback is that the frame of the lift can get in the way. I was quoted about $4000 for a Rotary brand above-ground lift at Carquest, so I agree that $2000 is quite a deal.

My next garage will have a lift. And my next house will have a garage! ;-)
Rob Edwards

My dad has a pit, and it's great to work in. I've used 4 and 2 post lifts before and found them to be a hassle that I can do without. Pulling engines out with a pit is a piece of cake... can work under the car to undo mounts & hoses etc, hook up the hoist, and then roll the car backwards out of the garage which you can't do if it's on a lift!

Yes it's a bit hazardous but it's nothing that being sensible won't avoid. Lighting is tricky but not impossible, if you've got a couple of good leadlamps then you won't be complaining too much.

hth,
--
Olly
Oliver Stephenson

Tom,
I have a four poster lift which I use primarly to turn a three car garage into a four car garage. Of course, I use it for the minor maintenance jobs on all my cars. It has all the hydraulics above gound and has the added advantage of being portable. I can move it about my garage with or without a car on it. I've never had to do that but if we ever move to another location, I get to take it with me. I really can't say enough good things about it. If you, or anyone else, would like to have more information on the manufacturer etc., please don't hesitate to let me know. BTW, the British car shop I use for the major stuff, does use a couple of two poster lifts
for the work he does on all his customers cars.

Cheers - Dennis
Dennis Rainey

I have a 4 post lift. It works great without a center pole in the ground for hydralic. The main purpose is for storage but I am able to work under the car without any problems. This is a drive on unit with the posts in the corners of the garage. It can be modified with 4 posts that will allow the car to be lifted off the ramp enought to remove the tires to do brake work or tire work. The problem most of us have is storage of our LBC and you will need about a 13-14 foot high ceiling to get the car up in the air in a home garage.
JEFF BECKER

I wonder if anyone with a lift or a pit can take a picture of their setup for us all to see? If you can't host the picture you can send it to me and I'll host if for you. I'd love to see some of these things in action.
Steve Simmons

Tom
I am a bit late on this one but here goes, I see the two post lifts in most shops here including the one I take my car to. The lifts that allow you to store a car under are a option providing you have enough ceiling height. I worked in a pit when I was a kid on my father's orchard. There are limits and I didn't like it one bit. Also if you have a gas leak while you are in the pit it can be a real hazzard. The switches on most trouble lights would set off the gas fumes in a pit. If your shop has a concrete floor, go the easy route and install a two post lift.

Jim Lema

Having worked professionally on auto's for 28 years.
OK, so at least I got paid for it,
I've used all of 'em.

The best are 2 post above ground lifts, with asymetrical arms. So that the car sits well back enabling the doors to still be opened.

Well now it just so happens, I work for a tool and equipment company that sells the Worth brand. [mfg. in Fort Worth Texas]

We sell the 7500 lb. unit for $2795.00 installed. Minneapolis Minnesota. But you might need the 7000 lb unit with a floor plate which only needs 10' ceiling height. Wheras the other one needs 12' 6" for the other unit.
Please remember you get what you pay for.
Safety Fast
Dwight
Dwight McCullough

I looked into a pit when I built my garage, about 25 years ago. Even then the building codes were a real problem, because of the gas fumes being heavier than air and so would settle into the pit.The problem now is that I don't have enough height for a lift.At the time I built the garage the above ground lifts were not around.
John
John

As to Steve's suggestion for pictures, I will drive down to my US car mechanic's today with the digital and take a photo of his two post, all above ground lift and send it to him.

As to where to put a lift, like many others I have an older home with a limited ceiling height in the garage. I also have, in back, another two car garage with a small apartment/office area which was what sold us on the house. Unfortunately, it is being used as a machine shop and is not available for storing/working on cars. Hence, I had a pad poured next to the shop, sufficiently large to allow me to put two cars on it. This is where my long term projects go. It would be sufficiently large that a two post lift could be fitted. The addition of a pad and an above ground lift might be an option for those having sufficient space. Les
Les Bengtson

Les: and your normally dry Arizona climate. Would hate to think what one would look like outside after a few years on the Gulf Coast.
R. L Carleen

Steve,
I will be glad to get a few pics to you.

Cheers - Dennis
Dennis & Pat Rainey

Will gladly take pics of my Dad's pit at the weekend... I've found it to be completely ideal for working on MGBs, the width is spot on for working on the car without needing the pit cover on, whilst being wide enough for all jobs. I would guess that some pits of different sizes might not be so much fun.

I'll have to move the hot rod out of the way to take a picture. Oh, what a shame. I'll then have to fire it up the drive a couple of times to make sure it's running right. Such a hardship, I tell you...

:o)
--
Olly
Oliver Stephenson

Olly. Your dedication has long been noted and approved of. Fire it up once for "Anglo-American Friendship Week". Les
Les Bengtson

Good plan, I'll drive it past all the people who don't like america and let the small block chevy demonstrate how wrong they are :o)

burbleburbleburble...
--
Olly
Oliver Stephenson

Thanks everyone for the valuable information!! Since the ceiling height in my shop is only about nine feet, I would not be able to raise a car to the full limit of the lift and then be able to stand under the car (I'm 6'3"). But I could sit on my mechanic's stool and still be able to work. For you guys with the lifts, does this sound feasible?

Tom
Tom Custer

If you're going to do any work under your car under a lift you need to be able to lift it up so that you can stand comfortably. Working under a car while hunched over will tire you very quickly and make you dread working under there. My two post lifts work fine for my MG, giving me access to most anything underneath. Make sure you shop around for lifts- you get what you pay for. You'll need low profile arms
to be able to easily swing under the car, telescoping arms that shorten enough for an MG, and an assymetric design is a nice feature. Some lifts use cables, some use chains. Some need air supply to disengage the safety locks. Height at which locks start to engage and how the pistons assemblies are held in their tracks- hard plastic or bearings. Most 6000-9000 pound lifts that cost $2000-$4000 will use the hard plastic and you WILL need to replace them(the piston and arms will start to sag, become loose, drag on the floor, etc) as they wear- usually not a trivial task. Of course if you'll only use the lift occasionally, most will probably work.
Joaquin

Or as my brother in law found out at a party one night as his friends were checking out his race car. You have to keep them covered when not in use. One of his less than sober friends turned around and half fell into the pit. His new garage is going to have a lift.
Ed Emery

Just one more vote for the two post lift. My old Sprite spent a good bit of time on one. It saved so much time and effort on everything from welding new frame extensions on to dropping the gastank.

I really wish I had access to I now for the B.
Patton Dickson

Tom,

I only have 9 feet height too - not a problem, there is plenty of space under the car to work - I have a little three legged stool I use to sit on.
Chris Betson

This thread was discussed between 05/06/2003 and 07/06/2003

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