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MG MGB Technical - Halogen Dash Bulbs
| I'm purchasing halogen heads, and dash light for one of the cars. I've heard pluses( more, brighter-white light) and minuses ( melts gage plastics and filament failure after hard driving...read bumps). Before they arrive, may I have some Humble Collective Opinons from the group? If you converted, would you do it again? HNY Vic |
| vem myers |
| I converted about two years ago. I replaced all the dash lights (well except the oil gauge which I forgot to order)and the tail/brake lamps. I havent noticed any problems with anything melting and they all still work. My isnt a daily driver but is used several times a month. I'd do it again AND get the oil pressure gauge too! |
| william fox |
| What about LEDs? Has anybody used these and how so? I know they put out quiet a bit of light and they last just about forever. I'd kinda like to go that route if anybody can offer any suggestions |
| Jared Snider |
| I've got halogen bulbs in all my dash gauges, and highly recommend them. Put them in two years ago, and haven't had to replace one yet. (Daily driving in spring, summer and fall.) They are worth every bit of the extra money, in my opinion. I can actually read the gauges at night now. I've got an early B, and my gauges are all metal, so haven't had any trouble there. I also put halogens in the tail/stop lights. Tremendous difference in visibility back there. |
| Kim de B |
| Vic- I used the ol'-timey-mechanic's trick of painting the inside of my instruments with gloss white paint and find them to be adequately bright. However, like Kim, I installed halogen lights in the tail/stop lights and found a wonderful difference. No failures in two years. |
| Steve S. |
| It's all positive, I have converted everything except hi beam, ignition and front indicators on my 1963 MGB. My fuel guage is externally lit and I have a pool of light on my feet from that globe, but you can now read the fuel guage and all the others easily. The map light on the dash is so much more effective. I don't know of any negatives. cheers |
| Ian G Buckley |
| Halogens, if they have the same or lower current consumption as the tungsten options and are rated at the same voltage shouldn't cause any problems. Higher-current lamps may well cause problems with the gauges as well as burning out the rheostat. Lower voltage items like the 7.5v Radio Shack bulbs have the brightness of a firework but also the longevity - not surprising since they are used at nearly double their rated voltage - as well as overstressing the rheostat. |
| Paul Hunt |
| I can't speak for the dash lights, I have never felt a need for something that bright for my instruments. However, Vem, as for the rest of the urban legends you may have heard about halogens used elsewhere on these cars, none of them seem to be born out in actual usage. My own experience has been that I have run halogen replacements in all my lights (except the dashlights) for about 4 yrs now, have replaced none of them yet even with daily driving, and they simply don't melt the lenses. However, do note what Paul Hunt says about current draw and the effects of higher amperage on the system. When I installed my Sylvania XtraVision halogen headlamps, I also revamped the wiring and installed relays for both high and low beams. (see http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/how_to/relays/ or http://www.mgb.bc.ca/electrical for "how to" info on using relays). To do so is just cheap insurance that you will not do damage to your wiring harness. FWIW. |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| Hey guys, Where in the UK can I get halogen side/indicator/brake/tail lights? I've never seen them available in the high street stores. I plan to coat the inside of my gauges with aluminised polyester film (Mylar) and then install high output blue LEDs, just for the hell of it really. I find the gauges very dim, but that may be because my rheostat is somewhat tired (if I turn it, they usually go off). 'tis interesting to hear others' opinions. -- Olly |
| Oliver Stephenson |
| Olly: Unless you want some odd highlights from what might turn out as rather wrinkly silvered mylar film showing up in your instrument illumination, I would recommend Steve S.'s trick with some high visibility matte white paint instead. The matte finish has a tendency to diffuse the light more evenly than a silvered surface and will reflect almost as much light. If you try your film, see what does happen, then let us know if you had to revert to the matte white paint. |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| Fair point Bob... I'll try it on just one gauge before I do 'em all I think! At least the paint would be cheaper :o) -- Olly |
| Oliver Stephenson |
| Oliver, I'd second the rheostat as a culprit. My third one (not cheap) gave up the ghost some time ago and in a fit of pique, I bypassed it. The increase in dash light brightness is a quite impressive side-effect. I'd say that with a decent piece of wire replacing the rheostat the dash lights don't need additional improvement. Mind you, if you like 'em bright, you should have seen 'em when the Voltage Regulator went west at <ahem> mph on the M1 one night. I've still got the sun-tan from that one. |
| Tim Cuthill |
| I am currently sorting the speedo on my 80 GT (the usual clip come undone problem). I have also purchased Chrome bezels which are replacing the black bezels. Point is that all my units already have a gloss white finish inside with an additional collar that is white on the rear side to reflect light onto the dial. Like everyone here, I wandered about upgrading bulbs, but Paul wisely warned me against this on the rheostat. However, the last of the Smiths units have a green plastic dome that must reduce the lighting. Is there any reason why I should not just remove the green dome? I realise I will lose the modern soft glow affect. Also, re bypassing the rheostat, Tim, I suppose a simple switch would be an adequate replacement as this would allow one to kill the instrument lights while driving with lights on during the day, but still minimise resistance. |
| Martin |
| The higher wattage of the halogen bulbs appears to cause the rheostat to give up the ghost. Been through two since I put 'em in ... you can feel through the dash that it gets quite hot. It is a bitch to replace your rheostat! I think the solution of stock bulbs and bypassed rheostat is probably the most elegant and certainly the cheapest. |
| Ted |
| I also note that John Twist mentions removing the rheostat from the circuit on late model cars in one of his articles a friend recently sent to me. Since I had just installed the choke knob for a Weber DGV in the rheostat hole, I simply soldered the wires together as per John's recommendation. Seems to be working quite well. There are three output wires (red with yellow as I remember) and one input (red with green?). I cut all four wires, twisted two into one bundle, the other two into a second bundle, then soldered both bundles together. A 1" piece of "shrink wrap" pushed up one side before soldering was moved over the joint, after it was cool, and a heat gun played on it shrinking the insulation around the joint. So far, the system is working well. Twist also noted that the bulbs will darken the inside of the glass, reducing how much light is transmitted. Thus, it might seem, if one does not want to go the halogen route, the following might provide the best alternative--bypass the rheostat, disassemble the gauges (clean the inside of the glass and paint the gauge as per Steve S.), install new light bulbs and, as per Martin, leave off the filters. The rheostat could be bypassed either by soldering the wires together, as I did, or by installing a toggle switch to allow the dash lights to be turned off for daylight running. My 68 had such a switch from the factory. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Darkening of the glass comes from the tungsten given off as a vapor from the filiament when it produces such intense heat and light. Actually, as I have seen, it happens to all incandescent lamps, only more intensely to Halogen type lamps. This is ironic and perhaps says something about these lamps and how they are made if they darken, and quickly. The halogen gas inside the bulb envelope is supposed to both displace any residual oxygen and other gases, and also cause the tungsten to redeposit onto the filament once the unit cools. These are supposedly part of the reasons for the Halogen's advertized longer useful life. In well made halogen lights, such as projection lamps (which I have too much experience with!) this seems to be the case more often than not, with glass embrittlement, hairline cracking, and consequent leakage more often being the killer of such bulbs. I would say look into the LED possibilities, they have made huge strides in recent years, and they may well be the last lamps you will ever need in your dash applications. |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| My 73 and 75 cars have one red/green connector on one side of the rheostat from the main lighting switch and one red/white on the other to the panel lights (red and red/white pre-1970). All the rheostats I have seen have two spades on each side, so it is a simple matter (hand-size permitting) to move one of the connectors to the spare spade on the other sode and so bypass the rheostat. However some years have two connectors one side so this cannot be done so easily. My rheostats have all failed in the same way and been the same type - the printed circuit type where some of the track has burnt out meaning that you cannot get all the resistance out of the circuit. The greatest 'strain' on the rheostat is when it is almost but not quite at full brilliance, this results in the 'heat density' in its resistive tracks being the greatest. With the lights on in day-time I doubt you would even be able to see the panel lights making a switch superfluous, but one would save some battery drain when parked. The dimming function should be required when driving on unlit roads as opposed to well-lit, but is hardly the case with the MGB. Hired a Metro some years ago with orange neon panel lights and no dimmer I could find, had to block them off with a sheet of card on an unlit motorway. |
| Paul Hunt |
| Can't say that I've ever felt the need to turn off the dash lights when "lights on" during the day. On the "wires to join" issue I only had two on my '77 car. I didn't have the extra terminals on the rheostat, so I just made up a short length of heavy-gauge wire with two male spades on it. Maybe the extra wires are a US thing? Bob, there's a very good chemical explanation of Halogens on the "Captain Norton's notes" site for Norton Motorcycles. Basically, the Halogen gas allows you to run a thinner (and, therefore, hotter) tungsten element as the chemical processes at work deposit vaporised tungsten on the "hot" (thinnest) bits and vaporise it from the cooler (thicker) bits. This is a dynamic process and doesn't just occur when the thing cools off. If anybody's interested I'll try and track down the specific URL for the article concerned. |
| Tim Cuthill |
| Evolution of thought is a beautiful thing. Steve, yes, I used a "High/Brite White Gloss" from Ace/Rustoleum, after trying the chrome paint. The white provided more, brighter light. I did this test on side by each, tach /white speedo /chrome and having long ago tossed the skippy rheostat "Dash Dimmer" switch. I wonder if the hologens heat could take the bulb color paint so I could go to hot pink light or some such.....? |
| vem myers |
| Thanks, Tim, you would be doing us all a favor if you can find that explanation. I read about this a very long time ago, so I am not surprised that I am a little off on the dynamics. My experiences with projection halogens says that indeed they last longer than comparable ordinary incandescents, and that darkening is usually the depositing of the filament's metal on the glass envelope, much in the same way some mirrors are silvered. When this darkening occurs, it supposedly indicates a break down in the chemistry within the bulb, which, as you say, is supposed to KEEP (a continuing process) the filament's metal on the filament and the glass clear and the light bright. When they darken, it says something is not quite right inside. |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| Olly Putting LEDs into MGB instruments has been done - if no one can recall it on this page, then it must have been on the MGOC tech pages. If you are a member (to access the archives) and serious about this then i suggest looking there (were posted some time early 2002), the guy who tried it, i believe, had very good results. He also fitted them into the footwells as an alternative to traditional courtesy lights - an option i may get around to myself when the &^$**£$ sun comes out again!! The ultra bright "white" LEDs will make very good puddle lights, Petzl already make a head torch using three of these type and it is BRIGHT!! From my electronics days i recall that one can also purchase LEDs which change colour according to input voltage - if one was to wire these to the rheostat, perhaps a dash with changing back lit colour would be possible. A friends dads saab had this feature which was very cool and meant that if you didnt like the "standard" colour you could change it - also if one was to buy an aftermarket stereo, one could change the colour fo the dash to suit - better than having a green stereo and orange dash for example..! Anyway - if you can find the posts by the guy re:LEDs you will probably find the way forward.... Regards ~PHIL |
| Phil |
| Cheers Phil, I'll have a look. I can change the backlight colour of my head unit between orange and green but I think I'll stick with blue for the instruments... I can always change one set of LEDs in the head unit to match :o) ttfn, -- Olly |
| Oliver Stephenson |
| Bob, I've just had a snoop and I think that: http://www.captain.norton.clara.net/cnn3sec16.html#3.16.1 Should give you what you want. Good site, with even more Lucas flames than here :-0 Brit-bike owners suffer from Lucas two-wire alternators with a permanent magnet rotor bolted onto the end of the crankshaft inside the timing case. Oh, and two sets of (Lucas) points on the twins. |
| Tim Cuthill |
| Whoa dudeos, I just asked above if the dash bulb paint could withstand the heat of halogen minilights. Then I read Capt. Norton's thread and enlightened dissertations aplenty. I'll never look at a tungsten filament the same way again. But I still don't have the answer. Guess I'll go to Seeitformyself Missouri |
| vem myers |
| "Never look directly at ... a light bulb |
| Paul Hunt |
| I'd like the question to Oliver's post about Halogen stop/tail lights because I'd like some. Not so fussed about indicator or dash lights. Oliver Stephenson, West Midlands, United Kingdom, olly@funkster.org http://www.funkster.org/ Hey guys, Where in the UK can I get halogen side/indicator/brake/tail lights? I've never seen them available in the high street stores. |
| Daniel |
| Question? Or answer? LBC Carco sell them, and they advertise on this BBS, including the fact that they sell them! |
| Paul Hunt |
| I was hoping that there would be somewhere in the UK that sells them :o) -- Olly |
| Oliver Stephenson |
| LBC have been at the Feb mg spares show at Stoneliegh on at least one occasion in the past two years. Their stand was where I met the illustrious webmaster of this wonderful BBS, Mike Plumstead. Jeff Zorn (prop. LBC Car Co) used to be a regular contributor here, maybe business is so good he no longer has the time. |
| Paul Hunt |
| Cool, hopefully I'll see them at this year's show then. I drive past stoneleigh (usually at quite high speed) on my way to university so I really don't have any excuse not to go. There should be a meet-up point there for users of this BBS :o) -- Olly |
| Oliver Stephenson |
| What you need is the BBS hat - https://securemg.ipl.co.uk/mgcars/hats/index.html |
| Paul Hunt |
This thread was discussed between 05/01/2003 and 13/01/2003
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