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MG MGB Technical - Hand brake cable support

Guys,

I have the last version of the hand brake cable on my car.

I bought a new strap some years ago that attaches to the diff. When i bought it, i discovered it is a straight piece of rubber with two large holes in it, one smaller & a slit. I quickly realised that there appeared to be no way to thread the cable through without detaching the cable at the hand brake end & pulling the cable out which is the easiest exercises , never mind having to remove the driver's seat first. I suspect on original assembly the strap was put on the cable before the cable was put on the car.
(I have seen many pictures of later MGBs where the strap is broken & now i think i know why).

The two rods are connected to the rectangular frame that sits above the exhaust - the off side appears to be connected held to the frame by a threaded end & a nut , but i can't be sure . The other is covered by the outer cable which i have tried to turn , assuming its threaded , but it may be riveted on in some way.

When the original strap broke , i simply held the strap up using a cable tie round the axle . Now I have put the new strap on ,if i can't easily get the cable frame components separated on the car , then i will have to use some form of medium sized cable tie & try and twist it around a bit so that i get the right angle to hold the cable & attach it to the strap.

Any suggestions would be very helpful!

(Hopefully the pictures will make Nigel happy)!

Cheers,

Charles






Charles9

Charles

I think the rubber strap just attaches to the axle bracket with two screws and one screw to the cable bracket.

I'm not sure why you need to detach the cable.


Dave O'Neill 2

Hi Dave,

I haven't got a problem in attaching the frame to the axle, its how to utilise the strap on the diff!
With 3 elements attached to the frame it seems impossible to thread the diff strap on that way!

Cheers,
Charles
Charles9

Charles,
good to have photos, being picky, having higher resolution or differently cropped images or zooming in or getting nearer would also help. :)

Being serious, even when everything is so clean and shiny looking at black against black with black background is never easy and with my car the additional dust/muck/crud blankets everything into one blur.

I thought you'd get non-standard wheels then realised it was another car!

Again being serious, is the check strap NOS (surely not original?)?

Higher res images would also make it easier to nose around your large double garage, you must be a light drinker and/or gambler too. :)

ETA: Sorry I know nothing about the handbrake arrangement.
Nigel Atkins

Sorry, I obviously misunderstood.

I assume you mean this one? Yes, it looks a bit awkward. No suggestions, I'm afraid.

I was thinking the same as Nigel - there's a lot of black under there.


Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,

Good to see you have spotted the problem I've got!

Nigel & Dave,

There is a lot of black under there.

Some 40 years ago I undersealed the car within the first 3 months of ownership. It had 3 years of being a daily driver & then i bought an old Mini to run around in until i could afford a better daily.
Consequently the B has avoided the salty times of year & therefore the underneath is solid & easily refreshed with preservative. (I know the purist like to keep them in body colour possibly mixed with underbody protection , but to clean it all off & start again is not for me....).
It suits me!
Besides having removed the dampers & ARB ,I had the opportunity to repaint them & with them removed it gave me much better access to the underneath.

The check straps came with the car. I removed them ,cleaned them with gunk, applied auto gym rubber / vinyl rubber care & then finished off with a tyre dressing , used new nuts & bolts & got a reasonable result. They are in good nick & given the problem with replacements apparently lasting 5 minutes , decided to make mine as good as they could be.

Cheers,

Charles






Charles9

It might just be possible to get the strap over the fittings at the handbrake end, but seems unlikely given the size of the 'tunnel stud' (first image). That can be pulled off the outer easily enough - whether it is supposed to be or not is another matter - but then the 'threaded adjuster' is too big to go through that stud.

How long they lasted originally is a matter of conjecture, I didn't realise one was supposed to be there until I noticed what seem to be a spacer under the diff cover bolt which seemed odd.

If you are not bothered about originality, and the cable rattles, then I'd go for the earlier elongated P-clip used on RB cars before 1977 which attaches to the middle of the rear edge of the battery cradle as per 'B' in the second image.

That shows a CB cable which is a few inches longer than the RB, hence the 'unusual' shape. I had a good CB cable from changing the axle to wire wheels so used that when the V8 cable frayed, one of these days I'll get round to moving that P-clip to the side of the battery cradle as CB cars were, which will put the grease nipple 'X' in a more convenient position for servicing, the RB cable didn't have one which is presumably why they could make it shorter and save a few groats.







paulh4

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your suggestions.
My cable is already attached by a P Clip to the middle of the back of the battery box frame.(As per the poor photo attached).

I will sort out a way of attaching the cable to the diff strap!

Incidentally the replacement strap does have a long cut in it , running from the large hole you can see to the smaller one , which would probably enable it to be passed over the tunnel stud in your first photo , but it isn't worth the hassle unless & until i have to remove or change the hand brake cable. - A lesson for MGB owners with the last version of the handbrake cable - before installing a replacement cable thread the diff strap on the cable first!

Cheers,

Charles



Charles9

Indeed the rubber strap is additional to the P-clip, just noticed that, and that the slit should enable it to be fitted over the handbrake end.
paulh4

As Paul said, the slit should enable it to be fitted over the cable and the small hole is to terminate the slit, so the the strap doesn't split.


Dave O'Neill 2

Charles,
it never bothers me what paint colour is underneath because it will get black with oil and grease anyway just looking at a photo of a black cable, in a black P-clip on a black frame can sometimes be a bit awkward.

Same as lots of things on the cars and with the cars it's black within black so often more difficult to see.

I make a mistake of putting a black torch face down in a mate's dark garage and then spent ages looking for the torch so I could use it to find what I was originally looking for.

Working on my car outside it's even worse looking at black on black as I also get the huge background blinding illumination of the fiery ball in the sky.

ETA: I can see your battery (case at least) was made in March. :)

Nigel Atkins

Take the rubber support back off the housing , unhook the cable and rod from the wheels ,using the slot provided in the rubber, feed the rubber over the lh end of the cable ,over the joiner ,along the cable and rod combined till you have passed the end of the rod and your rubber is now on the cable, bolt it all back on-
now, back to my beer-----------lol
Ahh ,it's a tough life
willy
William Revit

Hi Willy,
Sorry to disturb your beer brake...
Unless i can detach the longer rod from the rectangular box, i can't pass the rubber support along the left shorter rod beyond the right side of the box (looking from the back of the car) & then along the cable to the point where the support attaches to the diff.
Am i missing something?
Cheers,
Charles
Charles9

'Some' cars have another cable mounting on the lh axle tube and that cable joiner box section has a rightangle bracket on the front of it to take a mounting rubber strap--If it's one of these the job gets harder, you have to stretch the rubber over the box and the bracket, bit tight but it'll go---also forgot to mention earlier that you might need to undo the battery box mount to allow enough length for the rubber to get past the end of the long rod
William Revit

To do that the clevis bracket on the end of the inner, and the outer, would have to come out of the 'box' which is suspended from the LH axle tube on the compensator flap. I can't see that happening,


paulh4

Willy,

Thanks for your comments.
My car has the last version with the rectangular frame with a right angle spur to connect to the rubber strip that attaches to the axle bracket as per the photo. I have measured the rod to the far wheel clevis point link & it is 33 1/2 inches with the length of cable from the frame to the edge of the transmission tunnel as 41 inches.However i really don't think i will be able to get the strap passed the frame , so will live with a modification as to how i attach the cable to the diff strap until i can persuade my self it is worth the effort to take the drivers seat out (UK) & disconnect the cable from the handbrake end.....

Paul,

I think Willy's approach would work if i could get the strap over the rectangular frame on my cable, which in my 2nd photo of my initial post shows the size of the problem , particularly with modern rubber that is so much harder than the original.

Cheers,

Charles



Charles9

That's why I said the only way would be if you could remove the cable from the box.
paulh4

I've never had a problem with them paul
The cars without what you have called the compensator flap are easy it just slides over the box section-
The cars with the flap bracket on the cable 'box' are a bit tight, A new cable works ok as the lug on the side is a bit smaller than the originals like Charles', but it will stretch over the original ones with a lever (larger screwdriver)through the slot and pop him over,just like fitting a pushbike tyre, bit of a stretch but they go ok
William Revit

Thanks Guys,

I might just try Willy's method next time i strip down the back drum brake assemblies, but not today!

Cheers,
Charles
Charles9

Didn't that type always have the compensator flap? From what I have found in the catalogues there was one style of cable for RB cars prior to July 76 (415000) with the diff casing compensator, and one from then to the end of production with the flap, with variations in length for wire and stud wheels which would have no effect.

Doesn't the rod to the right-hand side have to be removed as well? That looks like it has a nut inside (at least) the box from my picture, but not on supply of current stock.
paulh4

Paul,
As you say , there were two types of hand brake cables fitted to RB cars with the change from a complete cable to a cable & rod set up in 1976 (41500 being the point of change). The earlier type did not have the strap (HBS1001) to the rear axle, but used the compensator brackets.
Willy was suggesting sliding the diff strap over the frame (having already separated the left hand rod from its cotter pin connection) then along the cable & the longer rod together on the right (having detached it from the cotter pin connection at the back of the drum) - hence why i measured it to see if the rod was shorter than the exposed cable is before it goes into the transmission tunnel).
On my frame there is a nut ,(not easy to access & maybe captive) but there does not appear to be any thread on the rod poking through into the frame. I would be interested to know , if someone has taken an original apart to see if indeed there is a thread or if it has simply been used to weld a joint on.In theory i could detach the rod at the cotter pin end & try & twist it with some mole grips , but not the easiest thing to do in situ.

Cheers,
Charles



Charles9

The last midgets had a similar cable arrangement. I might have the remains of a frame in my box of useful metal bits. I will have a look.

I do have a late Midget, but I currently have the front end on axle stands, so I can’t look under the back.
Dave O'Neill 2

Charles,
if they're modern made s/s setscrews and nuts you're using - I was bought a load as a gift from a reputable local supplier and when I used them I found them to be loose-thread, even more so than other BZP ones I've had. I had to replaced the s/s ones I'd used with BZP from my stock and I gave away the s/s ones I didn't use.

If they're not - I'm more and more included to use nylocs and/or medium strength threadlock. I had to apply some only this week to a fitting (union nut) I'd already nipped up after road use but it'd come loose again.

I use them but I don't have much faith in spring/split washers or shakeproof washer being that much better than plain washers but I often use the combination, and a dab of threadlock if I want belt, braces, string assurance.

Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,
Well spotted with the s/s setscrews & nuts on the axle support for the brake cable frame. I put them on some 3 years ago & actually found them nice & tight when i removed them late December to refurbidh underneath. I haven't used any s/s on any of the suspension components or ARB or potentially stressed areas.
So far in places where i have used them i have been happy with the thread action.
Cheers,
Charles
Charles9

We are getting at cross-purposes here.

This is nothing to do with the earlier RB cables that were completely different and didn't have either of the rubber components.

Willy indicates that only 'some' cars had the rubber flap that goes to the left-hand axle tube for the later RB handbrake cable, hence only some cars would have the bracket on the frame that would make getting the rubber strip over the frame difficult.

From the catalogues including the original Parts Catalogue _all_ later handbrake cables have both the rubber strip attached to the diff and the rubber flap attached to the left-hand axle tube, hence all frames will have the bracket.

Although the image I posted looks like it could have a nut inside the box for the rod I would have thought that wouldn't have been enough for safety reasons, and current pictures don't show a nut or thread.

If not, then having to fit the rubber strip over the box or frame - with its side bracket, and slide it down the cable and the right-hand rod, means disconnecting cable and rod from their respective back-plate levers, and removing the flap from the frame, which in most cases with rusty nuts seems a lot more work than disconnecting the other end.

But then it's not me doing it :o)
paulh4

Paul,

I actually think we are all saying the same thing in different ways . (Yours & my description of the two types of brake cable set up fitted to the RB cars are the same.) The only ? appears to be Willy's reference to a "box section" on the earlier type. He also makes the point that after market versions of the later type may be easier to deal with as the lug on the side of the frame is smaller.

Willy's solution for my problem , other than the hassle in my case is not made worse by any rusted nuts.... although i appreciate that your approach where everything is rusted up solid makes the handbrake direction route possibly easier!

Cheers,

Charles
Charles9

Charles,
I knew it, it's just me getting all the sloppy threads, saving everyone else. I must have been very bad in my previous lives.
Nigel Atkins

The 'box section' I mentioned is on the late 77-80 RB cable,as seen in the 2nd pic of charles' original post, and I repeat that some cars don't have the rubber flappy thing to support the box section, they just sit there and their only support is the saddle on the battery box and the strap that Charles is replacing
I find it's easier/quicker to replace the strap from the rear rather than getting into undoing the end up in the tunnel
Next time I do one Paul I'll take step by step pics so you can understand how to doit
The cable on some 77-80 wire wheel roadsters I've seen has a step down in size about 2/3 along the box where the lug would normally be and doesn't have the lug on the box and no bracket on the axle housing for the rubber flap--see pic.



William Revit

Hi Nigel,

Off the topic of the thread i know but:-

I've had no issues with S/S supplies from Spalding Fasteners,Westfield Fasteners or indeed Wrights!
I did ,however, have an issue with some non s/s spring washers bought from one of the more well known classic car spares companies when i torqued up the bolts of my rear shocks - they splayed out & i had to redo those fittings!

Cheers,

Charles
Charles9

Guys,

As a temporary measure i have used a medium sized P Clip with a rubber insert & attached (just for Nigel used S/S) it via the larger hole of the diff strap which looks better & more substantial than the plastic cable tie I've been using for more years than i can remember!
Thanks for all your input.
(Sorry photo isn't brilliant , but inspection light on charge).

Cheers,

Charles


Charles9

O/T

Charles,
I've had setscrews, nuts and washers from Wrights for a good number of years but last few years when I've see them at the NEC shows there is so much in s/s rather than the stuff and sizes I want (and in BZP).

I've had split washers splay, no idea who the supplier might be as my limited stock gets mixed when replenished.

I've never been certain of the effectiveness of split washers and the debates can can you either way, I think I prefer a nyloc now.

I normally use setscrew/bolt with plain washer under head, then plain and split washer and nut other side -
or plain washer and nyloc.

I've only really had trouble with those s/s, yet they were from a normally reliable source of a local farmers/hydraulic suppliers but it was taken over a couple of years back. Same chap is still there though, before you could buy one nut and he'd insist on handwriting a receipt for it, last time I went in they had an electronic till that gave the receipt.
Nigel Atkins

That's cheating (joking)--easy fix and doesn't look out of place
Being an inquisitive little git, Can I ask what the car in the background is--------please
William Revit

Ha! x2, Willy.
John.
J P Hall

Willy
Yes - cheeky! A Wolf almost in Sheep's clothing. M340ixDrive
Cheers,
Charles
Charles9

Cheers Charles, Nice car---
William Revit

This thread was discussed between 17/01/2021 and 22/01/2021

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