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MG MGB Technical - Horrific handling

Guys, I recently pulled my '77 B out of storage and started driving around. I noticed that the car reacted more violently than I remembered over bumps. It quickly got to the point where I have to hang on with both hands for any bumps. The car seems to hit them all hard, and the steering wheel wants to com out of my hands. I know the rear shocks are pretty worn, but now the front seems worse. I pulled and pushed on the front wheels, and they seem tight in all directions. I went under to look at the bushings, they looked OK and pushing hard on the wheels with my feet produced no noticable movement. Not sure if it would normally though. What I did notice is that one steering rack boot was wide open, so there was no oil in the rack. Now my guess is that the front shocks are shot also, but could the opened steering rack contribute greatly to the effects I'm getting? All looked good inside, but I've seen no sign of oil under the car. My guess is that it just opened up on the road recently.

Thanks,
Mark R.
Mark R

Mark,

How long has your B been in storage? And what kind of storage? First, pushing and pulling on the front wheels probably won't tell you much unless you jack the car up and support it on jack-stands under the spring pans. With the car safely supported in that way, grasp the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock and try to wobble it in and out. That will give you an idea of the condition of the kingpins. It should not wobble. Do this test before and after greasing the kingpin zerks.

Here is where I take the "shotgun" approach. Thoroughly service the front end (indeed, the whole car!). Can you get grease through all the kingpin zerks until it comes out at tops and bottoms? While your at it, inspect all the bushings! Better yet, just replace them. And replace those steering rack boots - filling the rack with the proper oil!

Check the oil level in the shocks. If they're low, as a temporary measure, fill them; then plan on replacing them as once they start leaking, they'll continue leaking. Do the same for the rear shocks. Tighten the "U" bolts holding the rear axle to the leaf springs. If they're not tight enough, you can get unpredictable "torque" steering.

How are your tires? Even if the tread looks good, are there cracks in the side-walls? If so, throw 'em out! Are your wheels tightly affixed? If wire wheels, check the knock-offs; if disc wheels, check the wheel nuts. Again, if wire wheels, check the spokes: hit each one with a screwdriver handle and listen for the ring. Even if you've never done this before, when you come across a loose (dead sounding) one, you'll know it!

How about wheel alignment (toe-in)? Wheel balance?

If you mostly want to know what's causing the problem, my approach won't necessarily help much. If you want the confidence that your resurrected MGB is now safe and smooth, it may take some extensive service to bring the car back to it's proper specifications. If you fix all these things at once, you may never know why it acted badly, but you will know it is safe.

You didn't mention it, but how are the brakes? Even if they feel OK, do check carefully for any signs of leaking.

Excuse me if any of this offends your mechanical savvy. I can't tell by your post how much you know about MGs, so if anything I've said is painfully obvious to you, just ignore my comments. But I really feel that the problems you are having are the result of multiple causes, and you're not going to be happy with this car until you pretty much go through everything.

At any rate, and compared with any car, the steering on a '77 B should feel as safe, secure, and predictable as any modern car. Steering effort might be a little greater due to lack of power steering, but the experience you describe should not happen. Check everything!

FWIW,
Allen
Allen Bachelder

At the end of last year, my ´63 was not quite as bad as you describe, but getting close to it. It seemed, as you say, to hit every bump very hard.

I have now installed new standard front shock absorbers (the rear shockers were changed last year), replaced worn out front suspension rubber bushes with blue Autobush polyurethane bushes, replaced the steering rack boots and filled the rack with EP90 oil. I also renewed the front springs, as the car was getting a bit low at the front.

The difference on bumpy roads is unbelievable. The car has a "new" feeling to it that I have never experienced before.

The trouble is of course that all these parts wear slowly, you won´t notice from one day to the other. My right front shock absorber was wet on the outside, so I have regularly topped it up with oil, and thought it was reasonably OK. It was not - when I finally took it off, I could move the arm up and down about 2" with no resistance at all!

If your suspension bushes are OK, I would renew the shock absorbers first. That is an easy operation compared to changing the bushes. And of course you will have to replace the steering rack boot.

Tore
Tore

Mark,

If it is really harsh, it is possible that one or both front shocks (or rear I suppose) have seized. That would leave you with only the tires for a front suspension. If you haven't already, go try to bounce the front end and see if it is really tight. I have a GT in storage that this has happened to on one side.

Charley
C R Huff

Charley´s theory is interesting. Exactly the opposite of what happened to my shock absorbers, but quite possible. It could also explain why your car seems to handle so much worse now than it did when you put it away.

Tore
Tore

Having done both standard rebuilt Y-dampers replacement and the retro-fit tube conversion ( 1994 Dodge I believe), there is little doubt the stock damper is a much better mousetrap. I have gone back to stock damps on all 3 cares! Cheers, Vic
vem myers

Guys,
Great discussion. Many good ideas that I should be saying "Duh" to. I've done a lot work on these cars, basically all that was mentioned above at one time or another, and I should have thought of these suggestions. But you all brought it to the surface. Thanks. I followed Allen's advise. The car was in good dry storage all winter. I went out and bounced each corner and the right front was all over the place. I pulled the wheel (Rostyles) and could move the suspension up until the spring (Lowered) held with no resistance from the shock. It was empty. I filled it up and took it for a ride. Still harsh over the bumps (We have plenty around here) but the steering wheel no longer pulls out of my hands. One target identified. The left front was full, but both rear shocks were low to empty. Filled them up and went for another ride. Somewhat better. The top was up so it's very loud, but the car was under control. I think it's time for a full set of shocks. The bushings look OK except for the sway bar, but they've been in there over ten years. Might be time while I'm in there.

The steering rack is still my concern. I really don't have the time to do the full job right now but I'd like to drive it a bit, so I have to ask (Please don't get too upset with me for this) if I seal up the boot from the elements (Plastic wrap, and never out in rain) how long should I get without doing damage? Looking for a month or two. It feels fine right now and makes no noise.

Thanks again for your comments. Very helpful.
Mark R.
Mark R

Mark,

I don't think plastic wrap is going to do much good on the steering rack because there is too much movement.

It only takes about a half hour to put a new boot on and maybe another 15 minutes to fill it with oil, so I don't see what you are gaining by putting it off. It’s not like you have to remove the rack to put the boot on, just the tie rod end. Mark or measure and you should be able to do it without changing the alignment much, and if you do spoil the alignment, it would be better to wear the tires than to wear the rack.

Charley
C R Huff

An old bodge is to buy a new gaiter, cut along one side lengthways so you can open it up and then wrap it over the old split gaiter to roughly seal it without having to disassemble anything. Use cable ties to secure.

I wouldn't recommend this but it's got to be better than nothing!

Cheers,
Tim
T Jenner

What I've done is center punch a dot on the tie rod end and on the tie rod on each side of the lock nut and set this distance with a pair of dividers. Unscrew the tie rod end from the tie rod, slip off the old gaiter and put the new one on, but don't fasten the big end. Screw it all together using the dividers to re-establish the distance, lock it down and put on the big end of the gaiter. Won't even be a thread off.

Wayne
Wayne Pearson

OK guys, I'm convinced. Replace boots and then replace the shocks and bushings later when time allows. Easy to just refill as needed as long as it isn't every day.

Curious - what are the signs of wearing rack? Noise? Anything through the steering wheel?

Also, it's been a while - what's the recomended oil for the rack? Gear oil?

Thanks again,
Mark
Mark R.

90W gear oil.
RAY

Mark,
That depends. The Morris racks used on all Sprites and on midgets up to 72 or so (IIRC) have a grease fitting on them and get filled with 90wt oil. The later Midgets use a Triumph rack, have no grease fitting, but get greased somehow. BTW, for shocks be sure to check out http://www.nosimport.com/ for Peter Caldwell in Madison, WI for the best rebuilt armstrong shocks in the world.
David "another happy customer" Lieb
David Lieb

Darn it! I forgot that I wasn't on the Spridget side of the board. Please ignore what I said about grease in the later cars, it does NOT apply to the MGB. The shocks still apply.
David "on the dark side" Lieb
David Lieb

Right David, grease is not for the MGB rack. I have a replacement rack made in Argentina on my roadster. It came from the factory more or less filled with grease, and with a lot of friction in it. The steering was completely different when i filled it with 90 oil. Just pump it in with an oil can from the small end of the rubber boot, with both wheels on the ground so that the steering arms are pointing upwards.

Tore
Tore

I replaced the steering rack boots on my volkswagen a while back and instead of removing the track rod ends, I just stretched the boot on over them. It worked fine. All I had to do was disconnect the track rod from the hub. The reason I did this in fact was because regardless of what I tried, I couldn't get the track rod ends to budge, despite swinging out of them with a spanner.
Ross Kelly

I did what Tore did when I bought an Argentine rack to replace my badly worn original. I think I dug out as much grease as I could by hand then flushed the thing with light motor oil. Drained that and went with 90wt. No problems in 50k miles.

The old rack had been running with torn gaiters and the inner tie rod assemblies were shot. I think an inner bushing was worn out also. It kicked a lot and when you tried to dial that out with the rack damper the steering became too stiff.

They don't last long without oil and when the dirt gets to them.
Robert McCoy

Thanks guys. I just ordered the boots and shocks. The car is off the road until these are correctly replaced.
Mark
Mark R

Mark,

Probably a wise move. Mind you, I'm not above using saran wrap to get by in a pinch, I just don't think it is appropriate on a steering rack. I have certainly considered it for a short-term fix on torn CV boots, but was never faced with the need.

In my opinion, you can probably get by for a bit with pumping oil into your shocks till you find the time to swap them out, but I expect that running them with low oil is hard on the rest of the suspension.

Charley
C R Huff

This thread was discussed between 14/05/2008 and 17/05/2008

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