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MG MGB Technical - Its time to bash Moss!

I just received another shipment from Moss - as I'm working out the final details in my restoration. I was a little distraught to see that the new SU needles I ordered were packed with the air cleaner bolts. Not only were they bent, but one was a #5, one was a #6. I also received a 3/4" sway bar - and the bushings were pressed into it at a strange angle - the left and right sides were different. It looks as if the bar was very poorly produced, and then drilled at whatever angle necessary to get the bushings straight, or close to it.
The worst part of this experience was the customer support when I called to get this taken care of. The sales guy couldn't say anything but follow the directions on the back of the invoice to return the parts. I've always experienced help in the form of "I'll ship out the correct parts immediately, please return the faulty parts as soon as you can." What are they coming to? Has anyone else experienced this recently? I also wanted bushings to mount the 3/4" bar. The sales guy couldn't find anything on his computer, and couldn't sell me a set. He said I'd have to call back on Monday and talk to someone in tech support, and that maybe a Healey part would fit! What the hell?
Jeff Schlemmer

Jeff,
Sorry to hear of your problems with Moss. Last week I ordered nearly $400.00 worth of parts from Moss for my MGC and a few parts for my MGB. The parts arrived from their NJ warehouse in three (3) days, with no back orders and all parts were as ordered and some were genuine LUCAS. I have had very few unresolved problems with Moss while restoreing a 1955 MG-TF, a 1977 MGB and a 1969 MGC. I have also had very good service from The Roadster Factory and Brown & Gammons. I hope Moss makes everything right for you.

Dave
Dave Kalp

Sounds to me like a new employee. This is not typical behaviour from the Moss staff.

Did you happen to get his name. A correction to the problem is a lot easier if Moss management knows who was involved.

FWIW - YOMV

rick
rick ingram

He never gave me his name, and I never asked. Typically, I would expect that type of service at McDonalds, but Moss? I know accidents happen. Two orders ago, my entire web order was LOST. It disappeared in their computer system and was never shipped. When I called about it, they were very helpfull and shipped it out no questions asked. The problem with that - they shipped the wrong order. I had to return that order while they found and shipped the correct order. Even with all those setbacks, I was happy with how everything was handled. I was a satisfied customer. This time was like talking to a fourth-grader. He either had no training or didn't understand his training. I would have gladly waited on hold while he asked for help. Unfortunately, I will now diversify and spend my monthly "car payment" elsewhere.
Jeff Schlemmer

Jeff:

As a former business owner I would suggest that you contact MOSS and explain the situation. I know that I would rather hear about poor service than have an unhappy customer. Most responsible businesses will bend over backwards to satisfy an unhappy customer. They will want to "make it right".

Jack
J.C. Weidner

Jack, after about an hour I called Moss again. I was given the same routine. It was as if they didn't believe that the products they sent me were bad, and they owed me nothing to make it better. They tried to place blame on UPS. UPS didn't pack carb needles in a bag of bolts and brackets where they could be damaged. UPS didn't pack the wrong parts. UPS didn't fabricate a warped sway bar. It took some convincing to get them to immediately send out replacement parts, with the same 2-day shipping I already paid for. Even the second person I talked to just wanted to deny that Moss was at fault and tried to make me feel like I was unjustly placing the problem back in their laps. Does anyone know who I can talk to at Moss who would actually do something about this? 95% of the replacement parts on my car came from them. I would hate to think that they condone this behavior from their employees.
Jeff Schlemmer

I'm probably opening myself up for some serious flaming here but what the heck! My wife and I have two MGBs, a 1979 daily driver and a 1965 under reconstruction. Neither car contains any Moss parts. I know that if it wasn't for companies like Moss many people would have trouble keeping their cars on the road but I have heard so many stories about service and quality, or lack thereof, that I will not use them.

I hunt around for parts, some I buy from LBCarco, yes, Jeff Zorn is a Moss reseller but I have never bought Moss parts from him, his customer service is second to none and for parts sourced in the UK and sold here, or for parts manufactured here, I will generally go to him.

Other parts I shop around for and hunt up, our 1965 has Steelcraft floorpans and rear valence, the sills are NOS MG panels, still sporting their British Leyland labels. Our 1979 radiator was rebuilt by a local guy, his work is far superior to the Moss replacement radiators, and he charged about the same as Moss. I recently bought some electrical components from a TR8 specialist, some TR components are common to the MG, this guy sources all his parts from Unipart and Jaguar, and when you place an order online he calls you to confirm everything is right before he ships! Can you beat that for customer service?

I would rather spend a little time hunting and a little more money to get better quality parts and great customer service, the strange thing is, adding up the costs I am finding that I am not really spending much more money by not buying Moss parts, all it is costing me is time to find the parts I want.

Many parts are also available locally, did you know that Advance Auto Parts and Autozone still carry a lot of parts for our cars? For instance, Advance can supply complete braking systems, original Lockheed parts - not made in China!

If you don't like Moss' service, hunt around, your parts are available elsewhere.

Oh, I have never bought from Viccy Brit either - same reason.
The Wiz

Hi, Jeff - I can relate - I spoke to a bubble-head valley-girl at Moss headquarters a few months ago that was really offended when I asked if they had a sale coming up, then had the nerve to tell me, that based upon their computer records, I wasn't a very good customer, anyway. When I pointed out that I had done most of my purchases through their reseller system, she as much as called me a liar, and denied all knowledge that such a system even existed <SIGH>. I hope she has either "smartened up" or "moved on", and I don't much care which. Anyway <rant off>....

About three months ago there was a fairly long thread on one of these boards about Moss' lack of response to a member from Australia (they pretty much ignored all his requests for service), and an official from Moss actually got on the board here, and apologized for the oversight, and promised to get the problem resolved, which I think he did. I'll do a search and see if I can narrow it down for you (may have been the MGA board - hmmmm...)

As with any large company, I think you just have to get to those people with the courage to admit the problem exists, and the responsibility and backbone to get the thing fixed. I know they exist - you just have to find them.

Stiff upper lip - - Alec
Alec Darnall

The guy I was thinking about is Craig Cody, and he seems to be a stand-up guy. The contact info is about six months old, but here it is:

Craig Cody
Moss Motors, Ltd.
800 235-6954 ext 3190
805 679-7190 (Direct line to my desk)
codyc@mossmotors.com

You can search for his name on several boards and get a hit (about 20 on this board alone). He explains in several of them the procedures they go through on error resolution, which are substantial, and generally in line with most resellers that I am familiar with. Hope this has helped, and - no - I have no financial, or personal, interest in Moss Motors whatsoever, though I have been a customer several times.

Best of Luck - - Alec
Alec Darnall

I've learned that there are just certain vendors that are good for some things, terrible for others. Sometimes it's hit or miss. For instance, I recently puchased a rebuild kit from a smaller, trusted vendor that I use when I want quality and don't mind paying more. The seals that came with the kit were just slightly wrong and couldn't be used. Quick call to Moss, 3 days later and I'm in business. A friend and I purchased parts this spring at the same time- I from Moss and he from Vicky Brit because they were having a sale on a larger, expensive item that he needed. Mine showed up on time and in good order, his was wrong, incomplete, tardy, and the phone service was terrible. Lesson learned. Conversely, Moss botched an internet sale I made and sent the parts to the wrong address. I spoke to a stupid person one day, then called back two days later, talked to a smart person and everything was fixed.

I know it really sucks to have your order botched and it sucks worse to be mistreated by the company's rep. I worked in customer service for a long time so here's some advice for everyone: The person answering the phone is making $8 to $10 and hour. This is not their career of choice. Don't yell at them or make them feel stupid- they will be less inclined to help you. Try to get on a personal level. You don't want to talk to them, you want to talk to their supervisor. Make it known you don't feel like a valued customer and are a little ticked, and if they won't help you or they're stupid, firmly ask for the manager and don't take no or voicemail for an answer. If you don't get what you want, call back, talk to the rep that's sitting right next to the first rep that you called... the squeaky wheel will get the oil. It usually works, take it from a guy who used to have to answer phones.

Oh yeah, a nasty letter to the right people will give you some satisfaction, too.

Mark
Mark

Don't know how Moss are set up in the US, but in the UK they have a number of shops (about 6 I think) around the country. They also have a central office in London. The only time I have ever had any problems is with the central office in London who lost a web order shortly after the service went live. I know only deal with the most local shop. I am lucky in that they are close enough that picking parts up is viable. But when you phone them you always get one of the same 5 or 6 staff, who have been there as long as I have had my MGB (2 years). They all seem to know the cars and often know the part numbers before I can even read them out. When they have posted me parts they have always been prompt and correct.

If Moss is set up with local shops in the US I would pick one (even if it is not local) and put you business through them. That way you can build a relationship with a small business that appreciates your custom!!

My only complaint is they are a touch more expensive than some others in the UK, but there stock is excellent and the fact I can avoid shipping means it works out the same. And I personally have never had a poor quality part from Moss yet, maybe I've just been lucky!

Iain
70 BGT
I D Cameron

Well, I just received my replacement order. I guess that I was right. Being nice gets you nowhere. One last call got the order out immediately.

When I opened the order, the needles were wrong again, and the sway bar is still bent, but not as much. Beware!!! There is obviously a problem with the manufacturing of these 3/4" sway bars. This one is close - only 1/8" twisted causing a preload for right turns. The last bar was off closer to an inch and the long straight section was bent.
Jeff Schlemmer

Jeff:

Sorry for the problems you have been having. There is a really fine balance between getting customer's orders out the door to them and costs of customer service and packing. We try to err on the positive side, by hiring salespeople that are intelligent and caring, rather than minimum wage order takers. On the other hand our warehouse is more systematized, so the parts pickers do not have much of a clue what a distributor looks like. Good experienced employees are hard to come by in such a specialized field, so there are going to be times where the learning curve can really be a problem. Have a little patience and we will do our best for you.

Your experience resolving the problem is doubly troubling, unfortunately like any company our staff has to handle some abusive and unreasonable contacts which can sometimes leaves them overly cautious with legitimate complaints. Luckily MG owners seem to be far more courteous than most, so that is a blessing.

Kelvin Dodd
Moss Motors, Ltd.
MG owner
KJ Dodd

FWIW -

I've ordered several times from Moss over the past few years and never had a problem.

I called a few weeks ago to order some suspension bushings and the fellow I spoke with spent about 30 minutes talking about the best way for me to proceed with my plans - very nice...

He even suggested I not waste my money on overnight shipping as the parts would probably arrive the next day. They did. - Greg
Greg Smela

This is a little off the beaton path but maybe Moss will take note. I purchased my son a remote control nitrus truck from CEN Racing. I had several problems with it and they took very good care of us. They (CEN Racing) monitor the chat lines and respond when they see negative problems like these. Being such a big company, it would pay Moss to monitor this and several other sites to see what is being said. It Would Be Nice, but not likely to happen.
Maybe Someone At Moss is listening??????????????Hint Hint..
Steve C.
Steve C.

Steve,

Did you by any chance look two posts above yours?

Greg--aren't we lucky living here in MD. Call Moss by three and the parts are always here the next day. No need for additional overnight postage. Pretty damm lucky that our hobby has folks like Moss to keep our appetite for parts satisfied. I'm sure glad they're around.

Paul
Paul Hanley

Here here!
Steve Simmons

Damn Sure Didn't!!!!!!!!
Steve C.

My experience with Moss has been thus:

The parts sometimes are not of the best quality (as compared to original equipment), but are on par with the other suppliers.

When an order is placed on line, it usually arrives within a day or two, which always surprises me as I've waited weeks for other suppliers parts to arrive.

The prices are comparible to the other suppliers, and their catalogs are a good refernce tool when reassembling components.
John

In the past three years I have never had a problem with Moss or the parts that I have ordered. I used to order on-line, however, now I order through a Moss dealer for a good discount. There is a local dealer who has some parts in stock and can supply average Moss parts or higher quality if you need it.
Jim Lema

I just had to return a bad brake master cylinder from Jeff Zorn at LBcarco. Jeff took care of it immediately and supplied me with a new unit. (Try that at Autozone!)

The service (as usual) was impeccable and Jeff is a Moss parts dealer. I've had great experiences with LBCarco and with Moss also. But if you have issues with Moss for whatever reason, just go through Jeff.

The bad apples in my case have been local parts stores that don't know what they're selling or don't care about vintage cars. Specialists generally take pride in their work.

Philip

The Little British Car Co in Detroit has served me well, highly recomend them, they sell Moss parts but back them up, however have found rubber parts from Moss leave a lot to be desired. For those special parts order from a supplier in the UK like the MG Club, their quality is excellent.
Kim Rutherford.
K Rutherford

Jim - Who are you going through in Seattle? Dave
David DuBois

David
Autosport on Westlake Ave.
Jim Lema

David
Had to run out the door. The rest of the answer, Autosport is good for parts I want NOW. They also can get body panels without a shipping charge. If I want a good (big) Moss discount I order from Chris Roop in Oregon. Just bought a master cylinder for my 67 from Chris and it is the original style with the metal can. He had some NOS in stock.
Jim Lema

Jim - I wondered if it wasn't Autosport. One of our local register member's son works there. Have you ever gone to Northwest Imports in Portland? I like him in that he is fast, I always have my parts the next day. What is the contact information for Chris Roop? Thanks - Dave
David DuBois

Dave,

Chris is a great guy to work with.

Here's his web site:

http://www.oregontrail.net/~roopsmg/

Paul
PR Peterson

Chris is also a Moss rep.

My luck has been pretty much the same as most everyone else in this thread.

You get what you pay for. Look for a bargain or look for value. I am not sure that what I get at Autozone or the Chrysler dealer half the time is really any better.

Moss is good most of the time, and falls down as often as others, but in different areas. They are all fallible and all dependent on limited resources.

I don't know, but I have to believe that there can only be a limited number of primary level suppliers of all the assorted widgets that make up an MG, so going on a quest looking for the ultimate OE quality or better thingamabob probably qualifies one for knighthood, ala Don Quixote, perhaps. The pool of parts makers is small and the sources for OE standard parts especially, limited and the demand small by most manufacturers standards, so I suppose we are d--n lucky to have the vast and almost complete array of parts available that we do. Many other enthusiasts for other cars would love to just have a Moss to bitch about.

mephisto

Paul - Thank you for the web site URL.

Mephisto - I agree. Most of the time I have been satisfied with parts obtained from Moss, but sometimes, the quality is just not there, regardless of who one gets it from. I guess that is what happens when one drives 40 year old cars. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to add my 2p:

I am really satisfied with my dealings with Moss (Europe). Just today I recieved a €300 order that had been turned around in three working days, and that includes the international shipping.

Also their web site is great for checking out good detailed diagrams, as well as planning what I'll spend my lottery winnings on.... ;)

Sorry to hear that you guys have had a bad time, but the Guys in London are great!

Cheers,

Rich
R Barrell

David
I have bought parts from Northwest Imports in Portland and found that their service was good. Chris Roop will give me a better price on the same parts. Autosport is not a bargain, however I can get there in 10 minutes and have the part I need to get going again. If you need machine work, Autosport does have one of the best machine shops in the area for British and other European engines. The local MG club had a tech session there that included a tour of the shop and the types of services available. Most of what I buy is from West Coast suppliers. That is more a function of shipping time than anything else.
Jim Lema

Thank you all for the great info on other reputable dealers! Moss will eventually get more of my business again, but for now, I'll spend my money elsewhere. I'd rather pay others to inspect the parts before they ship, rather than wasting time to return and reship items. There is definately something to be said about warehouse workers who can't identify the parts orders they are filling.
Jeff Schlemmer

rich in Spain, i believe moss uk and usa are completely seperate except for a common name.

jeff, my experience is as follows:
moss: sometimes good and sometimes neutral and sometimes bad,
viccy brit; neutral to bad most times
lbc: pretty good
mgoc in the uk, always excellent service and quality. sometimes more money and a little longer wait but well worth it.

never did see that bgt in burnsville, but still looking, jim
james madson

forgot to add: proper mg: never!!
james madson

This thread was discussed between 13/05/2005 and 26/05/2005

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