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MG MGB Technical - koni or spax

Dear All

I am considering upgrading the rear dampers in my 78 B GT. The choice (atleast in the UK) seems to be either Spax or Koni they seem to be roughly the same price does anybody have any experience with either ? How are they to fit ?
nik

I ran Spax front and rear on my '76 roadster and found that they were a straightforward installation and the shocks gave me many years of service.

I find that the rubber bumper cars need all the handling help that they can get (including rear sway bar), while I'm very happy with the stock handling of my chrome bumper Bs and my GT as long as I've got great tires. I found that good tires made the single greatest improvement. I'm running Bridgestone Potenza RE930 185/70s.
Steve Lipofsky

For road use, I would choose spax. The cheaper Koni's usually have to taken off the car to be adjusted and that is inconvenient considering the screwdriver click adjustment of the spax.

Sean
Sean Brown

Guys, in the Fall Victoria British magazine, page 38, above the Spax ad there is another tubular shock ad. This has no brand name and is alot less expensive which makes me nervous. Any opinions on this product? What would be the advantage to converting to tubular shocks? (I will also check the archives for this answer) Thanks for the input. -Brian.
Brian

Brian-
The issue of stock Armstrong lever arm dampers vs tubular shock absorbers is one of the oldest chestnuts there is. The archives of this BBS is full of information on this subject. If you care to research the topic, you can read until you go blind. My car (1972 Roadster) has stock springs, a Ron Hopkinson Stage I Handling Kit, and a rear Panhard rod, plus 15" wheels and P195/15 V-rated tires. This is a serious handling car. I use the standard Armstrong lever arm dampers and have no complaints other than the dampers feeling a tad soft when driving hard (read: illegally fast) on the very poorly surfaced winding mountain roads of nearby West Virginia. I'm sure that this is caused by the stiffer stabilizer bars increasing the overall spring rate and can be cured by simply installing uprated damper valves, which I plan to do this winter. As far as I'm concerned (and many others, too), there is little advantage to converting to tubular shocks unless you're going racing on a racetrack with a custom tuned suspension. After all, the operating principle of the two designs is much the same: the flow of hydraulic fluid regulated by a valving mechanism. If you study the archives, you'll come across several people who converted to tubular shock absorbers only to reconvert back to the stock lever arm dampers. Why did automakers switch to tubular shocks? One reason only: cost. They're cheaper to make and install, plus they're disposable, thus gauranteeing parts sales. True, there are some exotic shocks that can be tailored to custom spring rates (Koni and Spax come to mind), but aside from that, if you're running stock springs, don't bother. Spend the money on good tires, or new springs and bushings, or a Panhard rod, or a set of matched stabilizer bars. Then you'll see handling improvements.
Steve S.

Personally having experience with both types of shock absorbers, I would agree with much of what has been stated so far. However, were I to need NEW shocks, I would not waste the money on the lever arms, but instead spend the same, or in some cases less money on the tubular shocks. I personally have had great experience with the spax and really enjoy the ability to tune them with the click of an adjustment screw rather than having to re-valve, change oil, or go without. That's even for the stock springs.

Granted they both dampen spring frequency oscillations.

Sean
Sean Brown

Thanks, guys, for all the insightful experience. The method to my madness is, as my car is in storage for the winter, I'm going to learn as much as I can over the next few months so that in the spring I can go to town on a rolling restoration. So you will see me sticking my nose in here alot asking questions. I've found the archives very helpful. There are 10 questions to 1 that I have answered by looking in the archives. Anyway, any opinions on the shock conversion kit, page 38, of the Victoria British catalog? No name, low price... is it worth giving this a shot, or stick with Spax? Thanks again. -Brian.
Brian

I'd be careful! Years ago I bought a no name kit, and it was the worst mistake I could have made. Ended up ripping them off, and replacing them with some rebuilt levers by Worldwide Import. Best move I ever made. I'm at the point in my life, where if I can't get a few solid recommendations from others who have successfully tried 'a newer, better part', that I'll just wait or pay the extra cash for something that people are happy with and has and has a good reputation. I can't vouch for the Koni or Spax, but I'm satisfied with properly rebuilt levers.
SteveO

Just my pennyworth

Having put spax adjustables on the back of my 70gt I find the ride too hard even on the softest setting.

If you have rough tarmac round your way you may find everything shaking loose.

Chris C

Brian:

I purchased a set of these no name shocks from Vicky Brit and have installed them in my '69 roadster. Bit of a difference to the lever arm shocks, stiffer ride but not too bad. Was quite simple to install, and if you want to its easy to go back to lever arm shocks.

I have stock GT springs w/o rear stabilizer bar, orig. rubber mounts, 185-60-14s Dunlops on WWs.
The lever arm shocks seem to offer a little softer ride although as Steve says a Panhard Rod would be the ultimate. I think next time I'll try a set of uprated lever arm shocks and a rear bar. Can't afford the Panhard rod yet.
Luis

Brian,
I'm running monroe tube shocks in the back. As you may know, Monroe's are just cheap replacement shocks that you can get at Grand Auto/Craigen. They work great for me, I love them. Slightly stiffer ride but I can really feel the difference in the corners. the other great thing is even if you don't like the tube shocks that come in the no name kit, the set up for most tube shocks is very similar, so you could easily find other tube shocks to mount in their stead. And the price of replacement is cheaper than for the levers. Its not original but it seemed to simplify things for me.
Bill
Bill Mertz

Wheel/tyre weight affects damper performance and dampers should be upgraded to match. Uprated levers are still a very good choice because Spax although adjustable still appear to be too hard even on softest setting. Koni's are softer than Spax and are therefore a better option if changing to tubes.

Paul
Paul

Paul,

Interesting that you think spax are harder than Konis. After 5,000 miles I've decided to take the Konis off my car and go back to lever arms.

With the Konis there's just not enough room for movement. Telescopics they aren't. The spax extend beyond the bottom of the spring/axle mounting and I assumed the extra length would give them more compliance but word on the street was that Konis are better engineered. I have no idea on that score either way.

On a badly repaired road or on meeting speed bumps the Konis just don't compress and yes I have taken the packing pieces out. Result is my head hits the roof. Good job its a roadster.
Andy

Having used Spax from 1975ish with excellent results until they rusted out, on the top cover, over a decade later. I naturally replaced them with what were then the standard Spax product for the MGB. Interestingly these were now Gas Spax and were very considerably harder and even on the softest setting were not a patch on the original hydraulic only Spax. I have now gobe to the softer Koni which is more like the original Spax.

Rog
Roger Parker

Paul

So if I have mini lights (ie lightish wheels) would you go for harder or softer dampers?

nik
nik

Nik,

A very good question.

My own set up has uprated springs all round, uprated levers on front, Koni's on rear with Willwood front brakes and SD1 rear axle, 195x60x15 Minilites with Eagle F1 boots, with a touch neg camber and V8 power.

I would probably go slightly firmer both front and back, but I'm a glutton for punishment with the roof down most days.

Would be really useful to have a database of some sort. Paul Hunt's excellant website has really useful information on springs and ride height but not unsprung weight, so a gap in market.

An interesting development is that Frontline having done so much for midget handling are now in the V8 field and perhaps may look at tubes that have a range of adjustment that suit the B.

Paul

Paul

Paul, Do you have any pics of your V8 roadster you could send me? It sounds fantastic, I would love to have a look at it.
Bill
billyballer@hotmail.com (easier if you send pics here)
Bill Mertz

I found Spax to be too hard, when I had them all-round on the GT I wrote off...

I really like the feel of my current GT with uprated lever arm dampers, stiffer bushes and thicker front anti-roll bar.

I know people who used to work for Spax: apparently the build quality is shocking. AVO nicked the design, and build them much better.

I've never tried Konis, so I don't know about them.
Darren Ainsworth

Sorry Bill, I still live in dark ages (maybe that's why I drive a B with no radio) no digital camera or scanner. I have not worked out how to put a web link in these threads (anyone help).

As a description its a reshelled CB tartan red B with a RV8 bonnet (A hint that something is not all what it seams).


Paul
Paul

This thread was discussed between 14/11/2001 and 21/11/2001

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