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MG MGB Technical - MGB Front Suspension Upgrades

Hi,

I have an NG TC kit car that runs MGB running gear - the MGB I bought in 1988 was so far beyond restoring, it was either going to be sold for parts or turned into a kit !

I'm going to fit a Rover V8 EFi engine and think I should upgrade the front suspension, and I'm hoping for feedback from people who have changed things on the front.

As I see it, I have a number of choices to upgrade.

1 - Frontline / Costello kit
http://www.frontlinedevelopments.com/products/mgb/frontsuspension.shtml
2 - Moss kit
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=13113
3 - Hoyle kit.
http://www.hoyle-engineering.co.uk/html/frontsussuspension.html
4 - MGOC Evolution 3 kit.
http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/info%2d35168W%2dH430%2ehtml
5 - the Koni/ /spax type add on telescopic type.

As I see it they range from £300 ish for 5, 650 ish for 1 /2 thru to £1700 ish for 3 and 4.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm only going to make the decision once and it could be expensive.

Do any of you guys have any of these fitted ?

Thanks,
Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc,
you probably know what I'm going to put, if you're going to buy the first kit mentioned then buy it from a supplier like MGOC Spares where you'll have a full warranty
Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel,

I had planned on going the FL route for my kit and Sprite but a number of people, including yourself made me reconsider.

As NG Cars were once owned by John Hoyle, his design is looking good, but the MGOC Evo 3 looks good - hence asking.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=5576

This is the Bilstein kit, it's functionally the same as the Costello kit but half the price and you have the satisfaction of not paying Frontline anything. For the price, it's a fantastic bit of kit really, i've fitted about 5 kits I think and never had a problem. All I would say is, if you're going to use this kit, weld the lower damper bracket to your spring pan as the nut/bolt combo and proximity to the ARB nut can be very fiddly as it comes out the box.
Roadwarrior

Thanks,

That's a blast from the past - that used to be on sale at Ron Hopkinson's in Derby before Moss bought them out and closed them down.

Didn't know that was still available.

Any other comments ?

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc,
don't get me wrong I like the kit but I wish I'd bought it from and had it fitted by elsewhere

some Spridget owners find the kit a bit hard and most I think like myself have the adjustable dampers set very soft - though I've no idea whether this is the same with the Bs

as I remember it both of my Bs benefited from uprated ARB and if there was only one change I could make it'd be that, excellent cost to benefit ratio
Nigel Atkins

Roadwarrior,

Are the Bilsteins adjustable ? - I only ask because having a kit not an MGB I have less weight on the front and softer front springs.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

I'm probably biased as I have Hoyle kit front and rear, but his design is SO much better than the others. Why? Because he has moved the bottom of the spring outwards so it is much closer to the wheel hub compared to the usual MGB position. This allows you to use a much softer spring without any danger of the car becoming wallowy and gives far better body control. Look at any modern car with strut suspension. The spring is directly connected to the bottom of the hub, not put inboard several inches.

I believe (someone correct me if this is wrong) that the standard MGB front spring has a rate of over 600 lb in. - a very stiff spring for a small car. I have used my V8 conversion with Hoyle kit with 200 lb in springs on the front, and it was fine, although I now have 300 lb in springs as a good compromise between comfort and handling. And that's another advantage. John Hoyle uses standard dimension springs that can be purchased inexpensively from many suppliers (eg Demon Tweeks) in a large range of strengths.

Also, he's a really nice gent and is always willing to help you get it right. He is a one-man business and I do wonder what happens when he gets too old to continue, although once you have his special wishbones and hardware, all the bushes, springs and dampers are off the shelf items.
Mike Howlett

Thanks Mike,

What rear diff do you have, and if you don't mind, how much did it add to the cost ?

I had planned on leaving the rear alone, but the more I look at the bits i'm going to need to add to make it handle and accelerate, the more I look at the Hoyle back end.

Malc

Sorry for all the posting, but I have the body off at the mo and figure if I'm going to change the suspension, the time is now !
Malc Gilliver

Hi Malc,

John Hoyle supplied my diff. It is a reconditioned Sierra/Granada diff with a 3.14 ratio, the highest ratio Ford put in that casing. John also had the prop shaft made for me once I had supplied the length to him. I didn't opt for the limited slip option and after 20,000 miles of road use I have never wished I had one. My car has a fuel injected 3.9 litre Range Rover engine, mildly tuned, so it's not short on power!

My car took me 6 years to complete so the spend was spread out. I bought the front IRS in 2002 and it cost £682 then. I also bought John's 4-pot Hawk calipers, vented discs, and hoses and that lot cost £595 in 2005.

The rear kit was bought in 2005 and cost £2809. I bought Sierra rear hubs, drive shafts and disc calipers from a scrapyard at a cost of £60. I gave the shafts to John in exchange for his shortened ones. You must use 15 inch wheels with his kit to avoid fouling. I have 15 x 6" Minilite style alloys with 195/60 x 15 tyres.

I hope that helps.
Mike Howlett

The Bilstein kit is sadly not adjustable. It's probably a bit stiffer than the usual lever arms, but it wasn't a bone shaker ride.

The Hoyle kit is an amazing difference from stock, but to me, lost some of the essence of MGB handling. On a kit car though, that wouldn't really be an issue. It is a lot of money so it depends on your wallet as to how far you take things and what you really want out of the car. With both front and rear Hoyle set ups it's well into the realm of modern car handling and control etc so is essentially worth the money.
Roadwarrior

Thanks Mike,

Most helpful, I'm currently running AC Cobra wire wheels ( 6 or 7 inch x 15) just need to find out if with the Ford back end I can continue to do so.

Cheers,

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Just rebuild the stock suspension (I believe it is all MGB?) and use V8 lower A arm bushes, and if you wish, uprated valves in the Armstrong shocks. I expect that the weight of the alloy V8 is close enough to the original engine that no change in front springs would be necessary. Add a front sway bar while you are at it.

You don't need to get fancy/expensive to have a solid cspable MGB front end.
Bill Spohn

Roadwarrior,

Thanks for your response - it didn't appear until today on my computer - I think I was thanking Mike as you posted your answer.

I also think you'll nailed my problem with the car, it isn't an MGB so why have it handle like one, but likewise why throw away the standard suspension when it works.

In the few days I have been asking questions - here and other places I've realised that my choice of suspension is driven by what I want to end up with.


Bill,

When I built the kit I completely rebuilt the front suspension and used V8 lower arm bushes, but also used recon lever dampers - because of the 1930's style of the kit I can see the front suspension working while driving and I used to have a permanent 'patter' as the dampers failed and leaked and generally undermined the cars braking and handling - I didn't realise at the time that recon dampers(at least in the UK) are not a patch on new ones.

I could just buy new LA Dampers, but only last month I did that for my Sprite and of the four dampers I bought - two locked solid while priming and on one the body of the damper was damaged to the point of being unusable - so three new dampers - one fit for use,all returned - hence looking at options to replace LA Dampers

The good news however seems to be I now only have two choices - use the Bilstein setup and get tighter MGB handling - or go Hoyle and get modern handling.

Thanks for everybody's input.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc,
there a thread I think in the midget & Sprite forum on getting Peter Cadwell LA damper which are reputed to be the best, one of the reasons I gave up on recon LA dampers was because of the quality, when you look at the retail prices of recon LA dampers in the UK it stands to reason they can't have had much work done to them
Nigel Atkins

I put the Hopkinson front end on my V8 roadster.
4 things;
1 It is the cheaper option, but not as cheap as it was thanks to the Moss buy out,
2. It will need modifying if you intend to lower your front end. My conversion was on a Rubber bumper shell. To lower it to Chrome bumper height I had to weld an extension to the top of the damper fixing to prevent the damper bottoming out.
3. It does lighten the steering on a B.
4. It doesn't require any major mods to the X member.

Allan Reeling

Peter Caldwell rebuilds his lever arm dampers to better than new specifications. He installs shaft seals that the factory never fitted in the past or now for that matter. He can also modify them so that they are completely adjustable. His prices are very reasonable and he stands behind his work. A rare occurrence in this day and age. RAY
rjm RAY

Ray, Peter sent me the details and they do look well engineered. Haven't tried them yet but getting there. It's that bloody import duty!!! But exchange rate looks favourable.
Allan Reeling

Alan, Peter's work is unsurpassed in the industry. If you can work around the import duties, you won't regret dealing with him. RAY
rjm RAY

Ray,
Can you please give me the contact details for Peter Caldwell?
Al
Allan Reeling

This thread was discussed between 11/07/2014 and 27/07/2014

MG MGB Technical index

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