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MG MGB Technical - Play in Steering

Hi,

I have a 76 MGB GT and have play on my steering both whilst turning the steering wheel and pulling the wheel to and away from the driver. This was more of an annoyance until I had a look at the column just as the mesh of the colapsible column starts nearest the driver/steering wheel, at this point on the inner shaft I saw a poorly located self-tapping screw. Tighting the screw to the max, which amounted to a fraction of a turn completely removed the play. But watching the shaft turn from lock to lock shows that the screw head is actually catching the mesh of the collapsible column and causing the screw to loosen and the play in both directions to return.

So first question
1.
If this screw was to fall out completely will I loose steering completely? Or put it another way I have a few 100 miles to do this weekend, would I be right in thinking it would be better to take another care.

2.
What should I replace this dogey screw with and how on earth do I get at it?

3.
Reading the Haynes manual, which does not seem to cover the collapsible column, it appears that the steering column to rack needs to be aligned with special equipment, is this the case and if not how do I realign?

4.
Any other gotcha's, I don't often resort to getting a mechanic to do the work but I'm not sure I can do this job, well not by the weekend!

Trev
T I Lyons

Hi Trev

Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

The collapsable steering assembly has a two part inner. The bit that attaches to the universal joint slides up inside the section that is attached to the steering wheel. I have heard of play developing between these two components, and perhaps the self tapping screw is some ones idea of a 'fix' It is not as far as I know an original part of the steering works.

(1)
If the screw was to fall out - who knows? I personally would not drive the car untill I knew exactly what was wrong with the steering and put it right.

(2)
If you cant get at the screw in situ, you will have to remove the whole assembly, its not too hard, and given that there is something wrong, probably advisable.

Remove the clutter around the steering column top (plastic/switches/unplug the wires)
Remove steering wheel.
Undo and remove top universal joint bolt.
Undo and remove the three bolts at the firewall.
Undo and remove the three bolts under the dash. ( take note of location and number of spacer washers if any)
Whole assembly should now be able to be removed.

While I cant remember the exact location of circlips and other fastenings on the column assembly, it is fairly easy to dsismantle.

The section that you need to look at are the top bearing ( this is where the axial slack will be), and the fit between the inner and outer sections of the steering column itself, ( this is where the rotational slack will be). From memory there should be some plastic bits that provide the fit between the two - (hopefully someone else reading this will have a better recollection)

Best post another query here when you find out what is causing the free play.

(3)
You won't need to align the two sides of the universal joint sections unless you remove the steering box as well. Just reassemble the steering column assembly into the car, leaving all bolts loose. Connect the column to the universal and tighten. This will centralise the lower column. Tighten lower mounting bolts. Tighten upper mounting bolts.

(4)
Fairly straight forward, only real gotcha is removing the steering wheel. It may not want to come off. Methods vary, but I have always been able to remove by loosening centre nut ( do not remove completly untill seering wheel is free from its taper). Crouch on the seat with your knees up behind the wheel pulling rearwards. Whack the centre shaft with a copper hammer. (I have heard of a case where this did not work, a puller wouldnt work, heat wouldnt work, finally wheel was removed by cutting it off with an angle grinder!)

Cheers
Ian F



Ian Fraser

Hi Trev
Co-incidence but my 78 B is in the Garage today having a new steering column fitted as part of an overall effort to reduce vibration at speeds over 60. I thought that I could replace the bushes top and bottom but apparantly on this model (and I guess yours is the same) it cannot be done. I purchased a new column complete from the club. I thought it was a tricky job to do yourself because like you I looked at Haynes and it says that you need a special BL Tool to line up the shats at the UV joint so decided this was not for my DIY skills. I can't quite get to grips with the location of the screw that you mention but from what I could see of the new column there were no screws visible.
John
J.A. Gearing

I don't think there should be a screw in the column, the whole point is that it should be free to collapse in an emergency, it sounds as though a previous owner has modified the column to remove wear in the two halves of the shaft.

Mike
Michael barnfather

Trev, I have some photos of a dismanteled collapsible steering column from a chrome bumper USA MGB, don't know if the 76 UK car would be the same. I suspect the collapsing parts are the same. There should be two plastic sleeves between the two sections of the shaft, no screws. The plastic sleeves were probabably installesd by some type of injection process. They do tend to get loose with use and I know of no original cure other than replacing the column. Replacement columns for chrome bumper cars aren't availabe in Moss or other US catalogs. I have tightened one by drilling out the plastic and not drilling deep enough to hit the metal part of the shaft. I used a short aluminun pop rivet in the hole. I did it on my 68 and it is still tight. I suppose it may take a greater force to cause it to collapse than with the plastic, but thats a chance I'm willing to take in exchange fo a tighter steering feel. The to and from driver movement sounds like someone left out some shims on the top side of the upper bearing, again based on assumption the UK column is internally like the US column. You can see my Yahoo photos at;
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/flash1929/lst?.dir=/MGB+Steering+Column+upper+bearings&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/&.view=t
You may have to be a member to view them, Yahoo membership is free. Good luck, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Thanks for all your replies. I took the steering apart yesterday and indeed found that the plastic inserts on the upper male shaft where not doing their work. Infact one had disappeared and the other had perished really badly. A previous owner had tried to drill the both shafts and screw in a self tapper but the holes didn't line up!

I don't have the facilities to drill the male shaft, cause its a solid bar. So I've decided to re-assemble using a sealant (Instant gasket) as a temperary fix. Its been sitting overnight to cure so fingers crossed it will work!

As for dangerous to drive it would appear impossible for the two shafts to separate and the worst scenario that could happen would be that the play would return.

My biggiest problem was the re-install of the column as I forgot to release the steering lock/ignition key lock, took me a hour to figure that one out! Thick or what!

My only slight issue now is that I have 2 spare parts,
1. a circlip (the type you need pliers to install)
2. a metal clip that slides onto the top of the shaft near where wipe/overdrive/... switches. Not sure what its for though! Any ideas?

again thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I get on.

Trev
T I Lyons

Clifton, all,

just had another look at your photos the 2nd spare part is shown on your picture no.4 on the extreme left. Any idea what its for?

Trev
T I Lyons

It's probably the pawl against which the turn signal return arm hits in order to cancel the turn signal.
The circlip is probably the one at the top which prevents the solid shaft seperating from the outside shaft. Clear ?
Maybe not, I'm havin' a low day...
Cheers
Al
Al McMillan

Al, sounds like you are having a good MG day though. It was obvious when I was down there, in day light, that clip/pawl is for the turn signal/indicator.

The Circlip not 100% sure, but know what yer talking about.

Anyway took it for a drive and the instant gasket has given me much more positive steering than before, not sure how long it will last though.

Thanks again
Trev
T I Lyons

Hi Trev
Good to hear that you have a 'fix'

I have heard of another way was to coat the male shaft with a film of silicon grease, and then assemble using builders panel adhesive. It seems that this has worked satifactorily for a couple of years.
Cheers
ian F


Ian Fraser

This thread was discussed between 25/08/2003 and 29/08/2003

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