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MG MGB Technical - Power steering no self return

Recently acquired newbuild GT with power steering but there is no self return, is this normal?
Keith Doherty

Keith. To the best of my knowledge (and I have owned these cars for over 50 years), none of the MG sports cars came with power steering. I know that I have never seen a factory car with this feature. That would mean that your car would have some form of aftermarket system, never originally intended to be used on the MGB and "adapted" to its use.

Most of us do not find the steering of the MGB, if in good form, to be excessively heavy. Even for those of us whom are somewhat older and weaker than when we first started driving, do not find the MGB steering to be excessively heavy to use--even when turning the wheel when stopped.

As a result, your ability to find information about how your specific system works is going to be severely limited. There just are not sufficient examples out there and this forum has grown quite a bit smaller than it was fifteen or twenty years ago. Your best bet would be to research what system has been installed on your vehicle and see if you can find any information about that specific system. If that is not possible, you might try to find whether any shops offer power steering conversions for the MGB and talk to them about what you may have installed and what might be happening.

Generally speaking, because when a wheel is forced out of line (to make a turn), there is a natural tendency for the wheel to attempt to move back into the straight ahead position and any deviation form this norm calls for inspection to see what is wrong with the system.

Les
Les Bengtson

Do you know who rebuilt the car and fitted the power steering?

There are various systems available, both electric and hydraulic.

As Les says, we need to identify which system you have.

It might be something simple, like the way the kingpins have been shimmed, or not.
Dave O'Neill 2

Short answer, no it's not.

There are those on the MGA section that are used to fitting and using power steering systems on MGA, though it'll be a doner system, some may also be current or former B owners and might know your system, especially if it's one from the major spares suppliers.

Also, many previous, and current owners, of classics follow the fashion for wider wheels and tyres than factory standard this coupled with replacing the (15.5") factory steering wheel with a smaller size can adversely affect the feel and required effort of the steering.

Depending on which model you have the wheel 14" with rim size would of 4.5" or 5" and tyres equivalent of 165/80/14 (155 on earlier roadsters) which are more than sufficient for standard cars with good tyres in good condition fitted.

But if you have a car from Frontline then all bets are off!
Nigel Atkins

I have the EZ pas on my GTV8, developed in Holland. I wouldn't be without it, but then I have 195 tyres on the car. I drove a standard MGB the other month and was surprised how heavy the steering was - great while on the move, but a real wrench at parking speed. At 72 my shoulders and elbows really appreciate the PAS.

Should it self-centre? Of course it should.
Mike Howlett

Les,
in the UK there's an off-the-shelf system, though I must admit I thought there were other off-the-shelf systems available but on a quick look I can't find any which surprised me, but then I'm often wrong.
Nigel Atkins

MGOC kit
https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_SPARES_RACK___CONV__MGB__47.html

MGB & MGC
https://www.colneclassics.com/index.php/5
Dave O'Neill 2

The EZ system is off-the-shelf and is freely available in the UK. They have an agent here, in Devon I think. I fitted mine myself, with advice from him - it only involves changing the upper part of the steering column for their one with motor attached. Then a bit of wiring and off you go. It wasn't at all challenging to do and makes an enormous difference to the car. For me it has enhanced the driving experience hugely.
Mike Howlett

I meant to add this photo.


Mike Howlett

Keith
No, it's not normal, it should self return
If you've just bought it as a newbuild car, I'd be taking it back and making them fix it--
willy
William Revit

Keith,
I recently fitted a Toyota Yaris Electric Power Steering kit to my MGA.
It works really well on my car, but the car does have very wide tyres on it and a fairly small Moto-Lita steering wheel.

My MGA doesn't have much in the way of self-centering effect with the Power Steering fitted, but it didn't have very much before I fitted it.

I have been told that this may be a result of having 195 x 60 x 15 tyres fitted.

Certainly, the car is just as much fun to drive with the EPS fitted, it still feels like an MGA and has plenty of road feedback through the steering, just a bit lighter.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Pretty much what Les said... My 79 MGB tires are 185/70R14's and find very easy to steer. Be sure the king pins are well greased, wheels aligned and tires inflated correctly. Even parked, the steering is light.

Cheers

Gary

79 MGB
Gary Hansen

"Even parked, the steering is light"

You (and Les) must have arms and shoulders like a Russian power lifter :o)

MGB steering has never been 'light', especially compared to the modern cars that most people probably drive more often these days, and radial tyres make it significantly heavier than the original crossplies. Hence why adding power steering has become almost common, in the UK at least.

Yes there can be faults in the steering system that make it heavier still, but both mine can be spun from lock to lock with the tip of a little finger with the wheels off the ground, but it still need lugging round when stopped.

You can also compare that unloaded effort with loaded king-pins but minus the effect of tyres on the ground by replicating something like the shallow dishes that wheel alignment places use under the front tyres, or at a pinch several sheets of oiled glossy magazine paper.
paulh4

Keith,
as advice from Gary, I almost put up a jokey post about getting out the grease gun and foot pump, also wheel alignment and correct tyre pressures are very important.

And as Willy has put if it's new build then a return to whoever fitted the power steering as all other associated components to the steering should have been checked as part of the fitting of the power steering installation.
Nigel Atkins

The perception of how heavy the steering feels will be related to how often the B is driven compared to other vehicles. Owners that use their classics more regularly will be more used to the steering feel of it than those owners that much more often drive other vehicles.

I'm not sure how common fitting power steering to Bs is in the UK, at the price I'd guess it would put off a lot of casual B owners and those that drive the car more regularly may not see the need as has been stated.

I can't remember the B steering being light but neither was it particularly heavy other than perhaps compared with a modern light feeling PAS vehicles.

I had a Capri that did feel very heavy at kerbside parking but was fine on the move even at slow speeds.

Standard sized steering wheel, road wheels and tyres, correct tyre pressures, fully serviced and maintained system and parts, correct alignment should all add up to quite reasonable steering weight feel.

But if anyone personally wants power assisted steering then that's fine.
Nigel Atkins

Hello,

Moss sell those wedges name castor correction Kit that seems to render steering lighter.
I will rebuilt a MGA and to alleviate that problem I will fit an electric steering kit fROm a SatuRn Ion oR others GM products.

Chers,

J.G.C.
J. G. Catford

Depends who you ask. Some have said they make the car wander more than lightening the steering.

Both the wedges and power steering crop up on the MGOC forum from time to time. Wedges seem to make no difference at a standstill, and if the car is rolling then I find a need for them. At least power steering helps with the former. YMMV.
paulh4

I fitted a castor reduction kit when I refurbished the cross member a number of years ago. They reduce the castor from 6 degrees to 3. It’s my understanding the 6 degrees was used for use with cross ply tyres.

Prior to fitting these I found the steering weight would increase considerably on winding roads if I was pressing on. I was concerned I would be trading steering effort for straight line stability but as far as I can tell there’s no difference in a straight line and the car certainly doesn’t wander.

I did buy a TF EPAS system with the idea of fitting it to the B but as I don’t find the steering an issue except for very low speeds, I haven’t fitted it. I was also concerned about losing feel as I believe some EPAS systems can feel a bit dead.

I run a standard 15 inch steering wheel which I feel suits the car, when I purchased the car it had a 13 inch Mota Lita, this made the steering far too heavy and also obscured the two outer gauges.
R.A Davis

I started off with wedges but since they make no difference at parking speed I took them off again. An MGBs steering is acceptable once rolling along properly. I'm pleased with the PAS - parking is a breeze, although I would admit to slightly too much assistance at speed, but you really do soon get used to the feel of it. There is no loss of directional stability, even at the quite high speeds my V8 is capable of.

Since I bought my kit EZ can now supply a speed sensitive controller which should cure any feeling of over-assistance. Mine is simply torque sensing - the more effort the driver puts in, the more assistance it gives. The amount of assistance can be partially controlled by a potentiometer control which I usually have at the minimum setting. Even at the minimum setting, parking the car is just as easy as my modern VW.
Mike Howlett

I believe that Nigel has made some good points about how heavy the steering is and how your perception of it may be influenced by how often you drive the car, I will note, however, that when my older daughter was 15, and we were rebuilding her 77 MGB, she had no problems with excessive force being required when parking. Factory steering wheel.

As to the original reason for the post, lack of self-centering of the system, it might be of interest to note that I have been driving my 79 B and my 77 International Scout regularly this last week, especially after the original post. I find that neither tends to "self center" when minor changes of direction (about 10 to 15 degrees) are made, but continue on in the direction they were pointed in. On the one test that I made, the steering did come back towards center when coming out of a 90 degree turn. Not having a truly modern car to compare my vehicles against (newest is a 2002 Toyota pick up truck), I do not know if modern cars, due to safety regulations, tend to be more self-centering or not. Again, this gets back to Nigel's comment about driving frequency of the classic car. I wonder if, perhaps, the car is functioning well, but the operator is not familiar with driving older, classic, automobiles?

Les
Les Bengtson

Les is right about modern cars feeling completely different to our classics from the 60s and 70s. The modern car disconnects the driver from the machine in many ways by power assistance on all sorts of things. The brakes is perhaps the most noticeable thing. If I have been driving my MGB and then get into the VW I nearly stand the car on its nose the first time I hit the brakes. My brother-in-law's 2016 Mini is even worse. The brakes are so over-servoed that I constantly worry about being smashed up the rear.

By the way Les, I had no idea what an International Scout was and had to look it up. That never made it across the pond.
Mike Howlett

Being able to turn an MGB wheel 10 to 15 degrees without it returning when released would concern me.

Both mine are the same in that any manual input from the straight-ahead returns when the wheel is released. Even a change in camber on the road is enough to make the car drift, but only very light pressure is needed to hold it on line so I don't get wander in terms of continual changes in diirection either.
paulh4

This thread was discussed between 20/01/2021 and 24/01/2021

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