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MG MGB Technical - Propylene Glycol anti freeze

Does anyone in the US/France have any experience of using this type in older MG's as according to a recent RR enthusiasts article, modern OAT based anti-freeze is not good for classic/vintage engines because it attacks solder and engines that combine mixed metal components. The article says that France has mandated the use of propylene glycol because of it's 'green' credentials.I've found a US imported product being sold through Performance Oils but it's very expensive and would hope that the same product from France would be cheaper.Anyone else read this article as it's made me think about what I've been using.
SJ Powers

I thought that anti freeze was ethylene glycol.
This is the common anti freeze which is coloured green and readily available in Australia. The modern anti freeze is red.


Mick
M F Anderson

Ethylene glycol has been used for donkey's years in cars with soldered rads and no problems. Why change?
Art Pearse

See feature on the V8 Register website on antifreeze

www.v8register.net

Explains all if you read the whole article.

Need to be careful

George
MGB and RV8
G R Wilder

OAT is used in my modern MG, but AFAIK there is nothing stopping you continuing with the older ethylene glycol in classic MGs, in the UK at least.
Paul Hunt 2010

I was told that one should never use the red antifreeze in anything that wasn't designed for it, only use the green. I was going to use it, the red, in my 93 Chevy truck when I drained the system to make a repair and the Chevy dealer said no! Beyond that, everything I own has the green in it. PJ
Paul Jennings

I think the red and green antifreeze solutions sold in the US are both ethylene glycol based. The difference is in the corrosion inhibitors. Red is for extended change interval designed cooling systems. I don't think it would hurt to use in a totally flushed older system. Don't mix the two.

Propylene glycol is less toxic and as such considered "green". I am sure it needs some sort of inhibitor package also. You can find it on the shelf but I don't know if it is extended interval or not. Definitely more expensive but safer for animals that might ingest it.

I've always gone with green except in vehicles that require the more expensive red ethylene glycol.

Bob McCoy
Robert McCoy

Dear all many thanks for your comments but especially to George Wilder and the V8 register who have a very good article on their website,some of which has come from the FHVC.Ethylene Glycol is indeed the base of original anti freeze, but you will no longer find it readily available on the shelf in the UK.Both Blucol and Comma are marketing their own versions via specialist outlets but I'm sure that many classic car owners are running their car cooling systems on OAT based anti freeze oblivious to the potential damage it can cause.I've found that in the USA AMS Oil are marketing a Propylene Glycol anti freeze and it's available in the UK at a very high price.I'm sure it won't be long before Ethylene Glycol is banned in Europe as it is very toxic and France has already taken this measure, so we'll all be looking for an alternative at sensible prices.By the way don't be fooled by anti freeze colours or standards classifications as these have all become muddled as well. It's best to read the published articles for more details.
SJ Powers

So ethylene glycol is toxic and propylene glycol isn't? Toxic to whom or what? I would not drink either of them, and surely toxicity isn't an in-use issue? I don't think engine oil is too god for you either (except castor oil).
BTW, what is OAT?
Art Pearse

The big toxic concern is with pets as they love the taste of the green stuff. I have purchased pet-safe antifreeze here in Canada for only a few dollars more than the standard stuff.
Rich McKIe

Organic Acid Technology, usually orange in colour, mixing this with ethylene glycol (green) causes sludging. Some newer OAT products are said to be compatible with all OAT and glycol types and are green or yellow. Also HOAT (Hybrid OAT), both are claimed to have a life of five years or 150,000km

Polypropylene glycol is apparently "generally recognized as safe" by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in food! Should be replaced when it turns reddish in colour (sounds like ForLife fluid which comes already diluted). Looks like it needs to be periodically changed or subjected to "regular monitoring of freeze protection, pH, specific gravity, inhibitor level, color and biological contamination" as once bacterial slime starts the corrosion rate increases.
Paul Hunt 2010

I hope the polypropylene antifreeze if different than what we use in all our building hydronic heating systems.

We use a polyproplene glycol product. We buy it by the drum premixed at 50/50 The down side of this product is that if overheated it can turn corossive. Very corrosive very quickly. It has to be tested regularly for ph level.

We buy premixed as it has been discovered that depending on the minerals in local water supplies the corrosion inhibitors are renderd neutral.
Kelvin Hawkins

That's is what OAT has been accused of, specifically DEX-COOL in GM, with several class-action lawsuits in America and Canada. GM claim that the initial overheating has been caused by running with low coolant levels, but that has been caused by new expansion tanks introduced at the same time as the new coolant with pressure caps that have been sticking in the open position.
Paul Hunt 2010

Dex-Cool contains (I'm reading this straight from the label on the
bottle): ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, sodium 2-ethyl
hexanoate, sodium neodecanoate.

I do not know whether if this stuff is toxic, but the label on the
bottle does say that, upon ingestion,..."do NOT induce vomiting;
IMMEDIATELY call a Poison Control Center".

Dex-Cool was specified for use in certain GM cars - or else the
engine warranty will be voided.

Years later, a rash of some GM models experienced failure
of intake manifold gaskets and head gaskets in the areas
of coolant passages. Dex-Cool was suspected to have
corroded the gasket materials in those areas.

Class-action lawsuits were filed. I do not know what the
rulings were of those cases.

GM later modified the gaskets to be more resistant to
corrosion in the area of the coolant passages.

I do not believe that any head gaskets for classic MGs
were also modified to be as resistant to corrosion
as GM's gaskets.
Daniel Wong

Only polypropylene is 'non-toxic', DEX-COOL is ethylene glycol/OAT and hence toxic.
Paul Hunt 2010

I think propylene glycol is used in ice cream. I prefer vanilla when I make a chocolate malt -- with extra malt of course.

I used low-tox antifreeze in the mga when we had a doggie. Never noticed any problems with the condition of the coolant.

Tom
Tom Custer

I prefer my malt in a beer ...
Paul Hunt 2010

Propylene glycol antifreeze has been marketed in the USA for many years under the name 'Sierra.' Its purpose is to avoid killing animals in the event that you should leak coolant onto the ground - surprisingly, animals seem to like the taste of ethylene glycol.

I ran it in my '78 for years, no problems with it at all, it performed much like normal coolant and survived driving in hot weather in California and Florida where the MG's cooling system was already working near its capacity. The main issues with cooling systems on an MGB tend to be the with the condition of the cooling system itself; the choice of which coolant you use is a very minor consideration by comparison.

I think the propylene glycol-based stuff is fine, and it does feel nice to know that leaked or spilt coolant won't take out the neighbor's cat.

Fear not.
Sam Good

"nice to know that leaked or spilt coolant won't take out the neighbor's cat"

Hmmm, depends on the cat ...
Paul Hunt 2010

This thread was discussed between 25/03/2010 and 09/04/2010

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