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MG MGB Technical - REmoving Frozen Phillips head Screws

I am not sure whether my experience is of benefit, but, I wanted to share some thoughts on aspects of MGB or any MG restoration for that matter, of how to overcome some of the tribulations of the restoration process.

Given the ages of our cars,(my BGT is now almost 48 years old) there comes a time when certain parts are required to be removed for ongoing maintenance or for a restoration job. In my case, it will be a total resto, so everything is removed for refurbishment or replacement. Let me dwell on the headlamps and the buckets that they nest in.

I discovered that the machine screws holding the headlamp buckets in place were completely frozen solid. Phillips Head screwdrivers made no impression and trusty Vice Grips simply slipped off as these screws were almost welded in place. No amount of penetrating oil, hammer taps, damaged screw removers or fervent encouragement would get them to turn, one way or the other. So, what to do? – my solution was to grind off the screw heads, remove the bucket and then drill out the offending screws. Easier said than done.

To enable the clear removal of the frozen screws, firstly I used a damaged screw removal burr bit to open up the Phillips head slots into a tiny concaved dish. This now gave me a centering point for my drill bit to accurately centre the hole I intended, so that it didn’t wander off to the side and damage the captive nut thread. At this point I had no idea of what was in store but I went ahead and that is how I managed it. Trying to centre a drill bit into a tiny flat circle of ground down screw shaft, after the head is ground off, is almost impossible, hence the pre-drilling of the screw head first and foremost.

By drilling through the centre of the screw head firstly with a 1/8th or smaller bit, this provides a centre hole for the following larger bit to drill out the offend screw shaft. Now the screw head is ground off, and if you have drilled deep enough you will now have a small central hole in the ground down screw shaft, to redrill, with a larger, but no more than a 5/32” bit. Be prepared to use a good many drill bits, and others may have better methods, but with no obvious alternative, that is how I managed my frozen screw removal problem.

Maurie P
R M Prior

I would always drill into the centre of the head, the cross-slots make an ideal guide for that purpose. On a single-slot head I'd try centre-punching before drilling.

By starting small the heat generated by drilling can be enough to 'unfreeze' the threads, and you still have the heads on to grip and unscrew the remainder.

If the mounting ring that is attached to the wing is beyond reuse - as one of mine was - replacements are available, although not from the usual MGB suspects when I needed one but they were from Mini suppliers part number 14A6693 which seems to be a standard Lucas 7" part.

Part of the outer wing round the headlight had rotted badly, bashing and bending two bits of flat sheet with hammers and grips to produce the double curvature was the biggest challenge.
paulh4

Well all screws on an MG are Pozidrive, hence a Phillips screwdriver WILL struggle to make an impression.
Using a centre (slocombe) drill works even better for centring. Jobbers drills can "catch" and snap.
Allan Reeling

Allan,
I used to think all screws were Pozidriv but then something changed my mind, can't remember what now but now I'm not so sure they originally were.

I think it depends on the screw or the state of it as to whether Pozi or Phillips screwdriver works best. In the late 70s I bought a No.3 and No.4 Phillip drivers as bottom drawer items and I've yet to ever use the No.4 but I've used the No.3 on at least my present midget.

For extraction of those with bad heads just recently I've seen an advert whilst watching YouTube videos that shows a set of double-ended bits that put a hole (slocombe?) and other end extract the screw by reverse thread I expect. I always skip it before the end and now of course I can't find it to see what they are called.
Nigel Atkins

Maurie,
well done on getting the screws out. I find most modern HSS bits blunt if you look at them and smaller ones break unless you constantly smile at them.

I'm in between replacing headlight bowls but have no problem with rusty fittings anywhere on the car as they're on and off so often because of the state of the classic car trade, I might as well have wing-nuts on everything.

I'm not sure which screws you mean by machine screws as my bowls were held in by setscrews/bolts, washers and nuts, bought as a set of four of each now. The nuts are a pain to get at on the Midget and its wheel off and back-ache for me. I'm sure there used to be full kits with bowl, inner bowl, seal and all fixings but to save money I refurbed (brushed the rust and put Kurust on) the inner bowl to save a few pounds.

I've only done one side and am putting off doing the other side but must this week.

The main pain is getting the bullets out of the bullet connectors without damage. This time of year the covers on the connectors are too stiff to want to move off the metal innards, there must be a secret to getting this done without damage(?).

Also I put silicone grease in the connectors to stop damp and muck getting in - don't do that its wrong, don't ask why I did it - so I've also got to remove them and clean them up more too.

Good luck to you but I loathe working on my car, always something happens to make it even more annoying for me especially this time of year when it's usually so cold and wet (no garage for me).

I always let PlusGas do the hard work of removing rusted fixing, it does require time and patience but I've never in a rush on my car so no problem to me.
Nigel Atkins

Silicone grease is death to electrical connections. I use Vaseline for it's lubricating and sealing properties.
paulh4

Nigel,
i find it easiest sacrifice the female connector sleeve. I cut the rubber open with a sharp pair of pointed scissors (kitchen ones are best!) ,prise open the metal sleeve with something suitable depending on whether a single or double connector & then the bullets fall out without having to pull them. Use new connectors which are cheap as chips , a smear of dielectric grease or Vaseline & then put back together preferably with a set of bullet closure tools!
Cheers
Charles
Charles9

Thanks Paul and Charles.

It was when putting the jar of silicone back I realised what I'd done, I only wanted to seal the openings and used masking tape (as well) anyway. I realise now I've got to do even more and thorough cleaning.

I've still got some contralube 770 that I use for electrical contacts on the car, especially on the exposed bullets behind the rad grille.

Thinking about it I've a few spare modern bullet connectors that I stopped using as they're poor at holding the bullets firmly, no real indent on them but the covers are plastic and a bit loose but I could use them.

When I can get the cover off I just use a small screwdriver to walk the bullets out from the centre gap and can then clean the connector and use it again. The bullets shouldn't fall out from the old connectors at least, often they're furred up anyway.

I bought a closing tool, went for the more expensive style but didn't get along with it, I have small worn old hands so I bought the cheaper version and use that.



Nigel Atkins

Nigel

The B has captive nuts welded into the wing for the headlamp bowl.
Dave O'Neill 2

Cheers Dave, I couldn't remember that, no wonder I can't think of removing a wheel to get at them.

Do you know what those double-ended bits are called to get screws out that I kept seeing adverts for until I wanted to?
Nigel Atkins

On mine at least the bowl screws into a mounting ring that is welded to the wing proper. The screws on both (cars) mine are self-tappers. The mounting ring can be replaced if needs be.

Nigel is the first person to have similar complaints to me about current (ho ho) bullet connectors from a variety of sources, they are nowhere near as good as the originals.

On originals the insulating sleeve is rubber that grips the metal sleeve (top), new ones are plastic that slides all too easily to expose metal parts.

TBC






paulh4

Continued:

The indentation that is supposed to grip the head of the bullet is barely present on new ones, and there is no indentation on the back of new ones that prevents the first bullet being pushed in too far.

Unless to take care to ensure that the back of opposing bullets is flush with the end of the metal sleeve the plastic sleeve doesn't have to slide far to expose live connections at one end or the other.





paulh4

This thread was discussed between 22/02/2021 and 23/02/2021

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