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MG MGB Technical - reusing piston rings
| I've decided to rebuild the engine in my '68b, since the last rebuild (4000 miles ago). I've learned alot from this site and various books that I should have done to improve perf.(balancing etc.) I plan on having parts balanced and matched and all bearings replaced but was wondering what to do with the rings and bores. All parts show min.wear but the 'might as well' phrase keeps comming up. I'm thinking that the rings have just bedded in. Also condsidering having the cyl. head reworked by S.Brown, any opinions? |
| Jim Bartol |
| Jim- Since the pistons have a mere 4,000 miles on them, I'd just replace the rings. Unless you have reason to believe that something is amiss with them, there's no point in replacing the bearings as the machinework involved in balancing the crankshaft doesn't involve them. |
| Steve S. |
| Steve Thanks for reply,what should I do with the bores-just clean them or rehone? I also want to balance the connecting rods and match them to the pistons,how important is it that they go back to the original cyl. thanks.jim |
| Jim Bartol |
| A light rehoning of the bores is in order with new rings. You won't be taking much off, just setting in a cris-cross pattern which will help the rings seat. It is very important to not go out of limits of the rings and pistons you choose to use. If honing will take the cylinders out too far, I would go up the next size with a rebore and hone. You can put in rings without honing, but be prepared for a more extended break in. With a rehone, new rings, and pistons in good shape and low miles, pistons can be moved to a different cylinder for balance purposes. I think it is more important to match the rods to their bearings and locations on the crankshaft. Steve is right, with good oil changes you won't notice any difference in bearing longevity over the life of your rebuild with the 4,000 miles already on the clock. You didn't ask, but seating rings is critical. A lot of people 'baby' their engines after rebuild, I don't. I drive it hard at varying throttle settings, but with enough pressure to drive the rings to the bores. Don't 'lug' the engine during break-in, and don't let it loaf at cruise. Your going to wnat to keep the revs pretty high, so using a gear lower than you are accustom to is advisable. No Overdrive. 15 minutes each of three sets of break in will do wonders. warm regards, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Jim- Since your engine has only 4,000 miles on it, I'd expect the old honing grooves to still be there, so I'd not be surprised if you need to do nothing more than just clean them. Most engine machineshops carefully match the diameters of the bores to those of the pistons, so I would label the pistons according to which bores they came out of. Since you'll be balancing the connecting rods end-for-end, it will make no difference which cylinder they go back into. |
| Steve S. |
| Jim. You do not mention why you are rebuilding the engine again. This will have some influence on what is required to be done. Bearings might well be reused if they are in good condition. If they are scratched they should be replaced and the crankshaft inspected for damage. As to the piston rings. I had to rebuild rebuild the engine on my daughter's car after 3K miles due to the flex hose going to the oil cooler springing a leak. When I tore the engine down, there were significant honing marks still visible and the piston rings showed some bright and some black portions around the outside edge. This indicates that they had not fully seated to the bores and I reused them with no problems. Engine has been running very well for many years now. When rebuilding the engine, I took the opportunity to have Peter Burgess build an Econo-Tune cylinder head for it. I recommend Peter's work as being the best available. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Les- The rebuild started because this summer I noticed a slight whistle sound from the engine when under load(up hills while accelerating). I checked for vacuum leaks, alternator, belt and bearings, and could not find the cause of the whistle. I did a compression test and #3 cyl. was 40-45 psi less then 1,2,4. Took the head off and found #3 intake valve seat cracked, able to spin the hardened seat in the cyl. head. The seats were put in by a local machine shop and it looks like they punched small punch marks around all the seats to, I assume, expand the metal to keep the seats in. Now I see in all the pictures of Peter Burgess' heads that there are no punch marks. Anyway, I've lost a lot of confidence in my machine shop, that being my first full engine rebuild, I am suspect of the info they gave me (measurements, etc) and their knowledge of these engines. Now I'd like to go over everything and improve performance while I'm at it. (Balancing and improved head) The outside edges of the rings on all the pistons are shiny. Some slight honing marks on the cyl. bores. |
| Jim Bartol |
| Jim- The seat inserts are supposed to be press-fitted into place. If punching was necessary to keep them in place, then the machinist goofed and cut the counterbores for the seat inserts oversize. This was done in hopes of getting the engine through a short (maybe 30 day) warranty period. If it lasts that long, they can always try to refuse honoring the warranty. Find a decent shop that warranties all their work for a full year at a minimum. If the shop x-rays the connecting rods and crankshaft for flaws, then the warranty should be at for least two years. If a shop (or rebuilder) gives a warranty of less than a year, then you're dealing with sleazeballs that know that for at least a part of those 90 days the engine will sit around waiting for the owner to install it, and then more time for the car to finish being made roadworthy. Remember, you get what you pay for. |
| Steve S. |
| Hello, Concerning engine overhaul. What is the right ring gap position for a 4 rings pistons(3 comp+1 oil control)? to avoid blowby? Lets start with front of engine(piston) being at 12o'clock. Also does anybody ever tried total seal gapless rings? My B engine is only 20,000 miles old in 12 years and as I need to replace seals I intend to replace rings and bearings. Is there a ring material better for that job like chrome, cr-moly or steel, etc? Thanks all, JGC |
| Jean Guy Catford |
| Just to make sure that you get good seal this time around, do a light dingle-berry hone job on the cylinders to revitalize the cross hatch, cover the crank with plastic if you are doing an in-frame, wash the ever loving fool out of the walls with solvent and then hot soapy water, and stick a set of Deves rings on the pistons. Ditto on Steve's post. Don't even bother to speak to the first machine shop again. They are incompetent. Just go find a really GOOD shop and pay their prices. Jack |
| jack a |
| Thanks for your comments and advice. I'll lightly hone cylinders and new rings. I've found a new machine shop that seems more enthusiastic and interested in this rebuild. So, with the help of Peter's and Steve's books, etc., I'll take my time this winter (long up here)and get this done right. Thanks again. Jim |
| Jim Bartol |
| Jean- Place the gap on the top compression ring perpendicular to the cylinder wall on the distributor side of the engine, then stagger the rest every 120 degrees. Chromium-faced rings are good for racers who run without airfilters, but will wear the cylinder walls faster. Molybdenum-impregnated ductile iron rings should give long service in your engine. Steel rings are great, but will be too thin for your pistons. Post your Email address so that we can pursue this matter offline. |
| Steve S. |
| Steve, Thanks fot the infos. my mail: iantr6(d0t)@yahoo(d0t)com |
| Jean Guy Catford |
| Jim, You are so lucky! I had a similar experience, only the loose seat in #4 broke loose and raised havoc - in both #4 and #3 (sucked into #3 through siamesed port). It beat up two pistons and scored the bore in #4. Steve, I thought the seats were inserted cryogenically. Or is it both? Cheers, all, Allen |
| Allen Bachelder |
| Jean: After rebuilding the engine in my BGT with gapless 2nd compression rings 15 years ago, I have not rebuilt another engine without them. After 135,000 miles, the compression was still within 10 psi between all of the cylinders. The car ran great until the head cracked with 155,000 on the rebuild. But the car has 433,000 miles on it so I'm not upset - I'll be rebuilding it after I finish the build in my ZA Magnette, which also has Total Seal rings in the 3-Main 1800 I built for it. I sent the second compression rings to Total Seal and they ground a groove in them them on a fixture and supplied the ring that fit the groove. It cost me $10 per ring for the conversion to gapless. The only proviso is to follow the instructions from Total Seal to the letter for installation. |
| John Perkins |
| Allen- I've never heard of an engine rebuilder that had cyrogenic equipment. Cryogenic freezing of valve seat inserts is done to harden them, most commonly for racing purposes. Most commercial shops simply rely on accurate machining to assure that the valve seat inserts stay in place. That works well enough for them, but I don't like taking chances. Whenever I fit valve seat inserts I spray them with WD-40, put them in a Ziplok bag, then freeze them in a deepfreeze. I take their diametrical measurement with the seats cold, then put them back in the deepfreeze. Afterwards I machine the counterbores for the seat inserts. Press-fitting them in while still cold pretty much guarantees that they'll stay in place after they warm up. Sadly, commercial shops omit the freezing step in order to save on time (money). They work on the law of averages, I work on the take-no-chances principle. |
| Steve S. |
| my better half bought me a computer for chrissy and I found this site how brill is that? Anyway Steve that sounds great advice with valve seat inserts, somebody told me there is an idiot not far from me who has such poor machining he welds them in place. Wish we had quality machists like you in the UK. |
| Jack H. |
| Hi Jack and welcome to the site. Enjoy your stay. By the way there is access to the archives for members. No costs ; fill in a form on line and that is that. Cheers , Pete. |
| Peter Thomas |
| Jack- Well, thank you for the compliment. Actually, I'm a former Tool & Diemaker who is lucky enough to be part owner (and silent partner) of a Tool & Die shop that is majority owned by a friend and fellow enthusiast. I get to use the machines and materials at cost, which is deducted from my share of the profits. If you're having trouble finding a decent machine shop, ask the racers at the local MG club. They should be able to point out the right shop for you. If such a local resource isn't available, just call around to different machine shops and ask them what kind of tolerances they can work to. If they ask what you need, don't tell them, just repeat the question. If they don't state that they can easily work to +/-.0001, then keep looking. Perhaps one of the best and most revealing tricks is to tell them that the specified clearance gap between the cylinder bore and the piston skirt is .0021” to .0033” at the top of the stroke and .0006” to .0012” at the bottom of the stroke. If they ask how many degrees of taper is needed, then they don't know how to do the trigonometry necessary to calculate the needed angle of taper. That means that you're dealing with mere semi-skilled machine operators, not real Machinists or Tool & Diemakers. No owner in his right mind would allow them to operate sensitive fine-tolerance machinery, so they won't have any in the shop, no matter what claims they make. Walk away and keep looking. Once you've found a likely prospect, tour the shop at the end of their work day. The shop should reflect pride of profession. It should be well lit and clean, including the machinery. That means no large amounts of metal chips scattered on the floor or lying in sodden heaps under the cutting stations. The tools should be in proper storage with nothing, including dirty rags, left lying around. Check to see if they have a heat treating furnace. Fine-tolerance machinery has to be kept in excellent condition in order to consistently produce such fine tolerances, plus fine-tolerance machinery is more expensive, plus the skill level required is higher, and thus the labor is also more expensive. In the end, you get what you pay for. If they really can do fine-tolerance machining, then grinding crankshaft journals, boring cylinder walls to the proper taper, and installing valve seat inserts should be child's play to them. |
| Steve S. |
| Thanks going to ring around and see if I can find someone to modify my valve seats as you have described Steve. |
| Jack H. |
| Jack H Derby Hiya I am not far from you and, when we are less than happy with insert fit, or there is a hairline crack to the inlet seat we do use a spot or two of 99% nickel rod to add security to the insert fit, is there a problem with this way? In some circumstances the head would be lost without weld. Am I the idiot you refer to? If so why not come down and meet me for yourself and then you can see what we do and why. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Fwiw,I'll be sending my cylinder head to Peter for repair and upgrade.I've heard nothing but good comments from his customers,I've learned in this case ,you do get what you pay for. Jim |
| Jim Bartol |
| Have you disappeared Jack H? I would like to have a chat with you. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Hello Peter I admire you to confront this situation. I believe you were the machineshop that my friend refered to when he told me that you needed to weld your seats in. I must admit to not being an engineer but I had never heard of that before and had not heard of seats falling out when done correctly by a competent machinist. So I must admit that when such an obviously skillful and knowledgable person such as Steve from virginia agreed that only a poor machinist would need to do this then I thought my original belief was correct. Obviously you would like to contest this notion, I can not say one way or another what is right and can only take note of more proffesional people's advice, so how do I choose between you and Steve and my mate. |
| Jack H. |
| Jack- I've known Peter Burgess for years now. You can take Peter's word as truthful and sincere. His integrity is reknown in the MGB community. He always stands behind his work and makes good on any reasonable complaint. Drop by his shop and discuss the matter. You may be surprised at what and how much you'll learn. There is an alternative method of installing valve seat inserts. Instead of press-fitting the valve seat insert as I do, the base of the valve seat insert is coated with an electroconductive base and then placed into the recess that has been machined into the head. A wedge-like conical electrode is then forced against the valve seat insert and electricity is then shot through the seat, the head acting as the ground for the circuit. The electrical power is so intense that the coating literally fuses the seat to the head. When the electrode is withdrawn, the seat can be seen to be glowing red hot!Laymen often refer to this process as "welding the seat in place", but to apply the term welding to it is really a bit of a stretch, as no exchange of metals takes place. This is the method most commonly used in mass production, and a few of the better specialty shops use this technique as it guarantees optimal heat disipation through the seat into the head. Sometimes, however, the seat doesn't fuse properly and becomes loose. |
| Steve S. |
| Jack When fitting inserts in old CI or al heads the material being removed varies, this can alter the rate of cut and can push the cutter over, dig the cutter in etc etc. You are not dealing with virgin material for removal. Even so, new materials vary. We are not dealing with billet forged material where the grain should be consistent. If you smell old castings pre-war etc you can smell the oils that have permeated through the casting, this shows laymen like myself that the castings are not solid as they are to the eye but a series of clumped molecules with god knows what inbetween! Leading us on to another problem...you come to me with a head already inserted with commonly fitted 3-4mm deep CI inserts, We now come to fit our deeper inserts at 6.5-7mm, if we cannot fit wider inserts we are stuck with the problem of making a hole deeper but perfectly lined up. With the best will in the world you will not line them up! So, maybe I am wrong in the learned opinion of your mate, but, if the fit aint right I am going to add some weld as an extra precaution to make your head alittle safer, would your mate just machine out the hole and hope they don't fall out? I back up my work so if an insert drops I will be buying someone some pistons. Personally I would rather have a safe head, up to you though mate, I only do around 250 heads a year of all sorts of types age material etc...I cannot weld the inserts in bronze Norton heads though...maybe some braze or are you agin that too? Our failure rate including cracked castings is sufficiently low that we can warrant the work for a good long time. We have experimented with freezing inerts in, we stopped the experiment when we discovered that the ice formation on the insert was interfering with the 'stiction' between CI/aly and the insert. On ally heads we use a special glue/lubricant that cost £47 for a very small bottle, this is a US product and works to perfection...maybe your friend doesn't like special glues either? Take care and voice worries to me and maybe not the ether. As a matter of interest who is your friend? Maybe you and he would like to come down and say hello? I can say I don't need to hide things or lie...no point there are loads of people out there who know more than I will ever know about engineering. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Jack- Peter has pointed out the things that I forgot to mention. Reworking a head with worn valve seat inserts is a matter that I didn't think to touch on. In order to remove worn valve seat inserts, some rebuilders heliarc weld a bead all the way around on the valve seat insert. As the bead cools, it shrinks and loosens it. Another trick that is sometimes used to remove a valve seat insert is to insert a valve that is somewhat smaller than the seat into the head and then weld the valve to the valve seat insert. The valve stem can then be used like a driver to push out the valve seat insert. However, damage to the counterbore where the old valve seat insert has resided is often the result, thus requiring new counterbores to be machined into the head. If wider valve seat inserts cannot be fitted in order to replace worn valve seat inserts, then the machinist is presented with the nightmare of making an identical-diameter counterbore deeper in order to accommodate a thicker valve seat insert, yet with its central axis perfectly concentric with that of the valve guide. If the head has distorted (and it frequently is found to be so), then the positional relationship of the valve guide and that of the valve seat may have relocated by as much as .004”. Under such circumstances, even with the best piloted end mill in the world, the central axis of the new counterbore cannot be concentric with that of the old, lessening the mounting pressure around the periphery of the valve seat insert in the counterbore! The counterbore for the new seat will be seen to be offset inside the old counterbore, so special measures will have to take up the space. The usual method is welding, as Peter does. |
| Steve S. |
| Hi Steve Happy New Year to you and everyone else. I remembered the warping problem with heads after I had pressed the submit button.. You are quite right to mention the warpage problem, a lot of Stateside heads seem to have run very hot with the emission controls etc. As you say, this adds to the nightmare. The other problem I forgot to mention was the removal of old inserts. Sometimes I have been accused of not fitting inserts and, on two occasions I have physically removed inserts to show Doubting Thomas's that we had in fact fitted inserts. Once run it can be difficult to see if inserts are fitted, on the odd occasion we have damaged our cutters cutting a counterbore when there is already one fitted(we usually hoik out the old inserts)the old insert just breaks away at the last moment, this can either break the cutter or roughen the counterbore...again I will weld a seat in plcae if necessary. It breaks our heart when the cutters break. We use a dedicated seat insert machine made by IDL (£6000 used 15 years ago!) we use US made cutters and pilots which perform very well, a friend who is a very competant machinist has helped us to improve the accuracy of the IDL with some cool mods to the way the head is held. We have also had to make new adapters as some of the original male cutters are now only avaialble as Pedersen female cutters. On odd occasions I use a special cutter for my MIRA seat cutting system to produce counterbores for which Keith will make inserts to suit by turning down inserts. This gets intersting at times as I can set the cutterto less than 0.1mm , even so the fit can vary depending on the metal being cut. We have to use a lubricant when cutting ally seats, it can be a wd40 type lubricant, engine oil, thinners(carb cleaner) or whatever suits...problem is..trial and error based on our judgement as there aint a book in the world that substitutes for practice, knowledge and experience. I am wondering if Jack H's friend is an engineer? Peter |
| peter burgess |
| OOPS should have been 0.01mm! 0.1 is 4 thou 0.01 is 4/10 Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Not to worry Peter. For every "Doubting Thomas" there are probably a hundred of us that have one of your heads on our cars, and absolutely love the work. I have personally recommeded you to anyone who has asked why my car goes so good. Cheers! and Happy New Year. |
| Paul K |
| It is good to have friends Thank you all very much. You always lift me up when the chips are down. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Peter- I don't think that you have anything to worry about concerning Jack's postings on this BBS. On the other hand, I do think that we've all noticed by now that after nine days Jack's "friend" hasn't seen fit to post on this matter, even though it's his head. Now that I think of it, who ever actually claimed that the alleged "friend" ever had his head in your shop? Nobody! Don't 'cha just hate innuendo?! |
| Steve S. |
| Jesuuus what are you all about? Thought when her indoors bought me my computer and I found this site heaven had opened. What do you mean good to have friends?? I am simply asking a question, the same question as I asked my friend. Why would he (who does not have a computer)want to post on this site. We simply discussed the best way to deal with unleaded fuel and he told me that he had heard the someone near us was welding in valve seats. I pesonally suggested that I couldn't understand why that was necessary! Coming to this iste I found somone who appeared to be a proffessional (Steve) agree with me that PROPERLY machined and a correct technique used the valve seat ought to be OK. Then in fairness Peter came to the forum and defended his position very well but now appears to be very upset and needing "friends" why? Also just as suddenly Steve has changed his mind also and is now agreeing that welding in the seat is the best idea. Gentlemen please make up your mind, and answer a simple question "without chips on your shoulders." Without the need to repair other issues should the seat need welding in? Having joined I have been able to access the archives and I believe that I have stepped on the toes of the gods of this site. If this is simply a mutual appreciation society best of luck gentlemen, I think a little thinking outside the box would do you well. Have a great year praising yourselves I will enjoy my MGB with its unleaded head. If the seats fall out I will let you know. |
| Jack H |
| Hello Jack, I work in automotive engineering and the way we fit seats is by machining the old seat out then give the new seat .006thou interference then warm the head up a little then knock it in ..In the case of a cracked head, SCRAP IT! |
| Malc |
| Jack- There's no contradiction or change of mind involved here, merely further elaboration. I suggest that you re-read my postings in their entirity. Simply put: you can fairly easily cut a counterbore into a head that has had no valve seat inserts installed previously, and then press-fit the valve seat inserts into place. However, under certain eventualities, welding is required if old valve seat inserts have had to be removed. Peening (punching) to hold a seat insert in place, on the other hand, is a tell-tale sign of very poor workmanship. We've done all we can to answer your questions by covering all the possibilities in our postings, but it does little good for you if you don't read them in detail. As for having "stepped on the toes of the gods", fear not. At this BBS you'll find them to be kind, as well as altogether quite mortal. As for this BBS being a Mutual Admiration Society, here we all tend to become mutal friends over the years. Hang around long enough and you won't be able to help becoming one, too. |
| Steve S. |
| Malc...what do you do if you cannot add the 6 thou? Say on a Race head where you will have the inlet seat impinging on the exhaust insert? If the head casting is worth £350-400 as in the case of TR4 head core would you scarp it when welding makes it safe? Jack, I reckon you put peoples backs up when you called me an idiot and you dont even know me, I reckon it was very rude and ignorant of you but I am used to people sometimes being like that so I would rather deal with your points rather than attack you. People maybe didnt like the way you attacked me either. There is no black and white answer to fitting inserts.The experience of the machinist is needed, we have been doing the work on vintage heads for some 25 years now. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Further to my last post...I had to rush off to take Simon to work...it will be good when he passes his test and gets a car....don't kids grow fast!! Jack, I have not said I weld in every seat, you seem to want me to be welding in every seat and prove me an idiot. It is easy to attack me on the internet. I cannot but help wonder if either you or your friend have some grudge and are trying to cause trouble. I have tried to explain in short postings what my techniques for reconditioning, repair and conversion are and neither you or your friend offer anti-thesis to this.As I say it seems like you've got it in for me. Malc, does your firm guarantee the inserts will stay in and put good any damage that results from inserts moving? On ally heads with problems we have the whole insert recess rewelded(by Metmachex Eng) and fit inserts again, the difficulty is on CI heads. The oldest head where I have welded in an insert was a 1902 De Dion with a hairline crack in it. If I had scrapped it where do you go to buy a new one? Again Jack I ask you who your friend is as you didn't tell me last time I also asked if he was an engineer? As a matter of interest Jack what work do you do and how would you respond if you were called an idiot on the WWW? Peter |
| peter burgess |
| There is no black and white answer to fitting inserts.The experience of the machinist is needed. You hit the nail on the head Peter. Yes we do guarantee all our work. The firm I work for has been on the go for more than 70 years. We too, work on all sorts of heads and as you know every head can have different problems. With a cracked head we can repair it but on an MGB it's not worth it. On something as old as a 1902 De Dion you have to try a repair. Jack nip in and see Peter and let him show you how it's done. |
| Malc |
| I have no argument with anyone Peter, I live in a free world where we take things as we find them. Obviously I have a difference of understanding of language to that of Steve S, one minute he says installing valve seats should be childs play to a competent machinist then because he realises he has stepped upon someones toes he changes his mind and agrees with you that the job is far more complicated than simple machined tollerances. However we could argue that point forever. You are obviously a very busy man Peter and will not miss my bit of trade, but simply so I do not misrepresent you again do you only weld in valve seats on heads that are not up to normal standards and would otherwise be scrap? And again out of interest if that is the case how many in percentage terms do you need to weld? |
| Jack H |
| Jack- The process that I initially described was for machining counterbores into a head that had never had valve seat inserts installed. Yes, that is indeed child's play for a competent machinist. Peter then described the factors that make installing new valve seat inserts into a head that has had previously had valve seat inserts installed, which is far from child's play. I then went on to elaborate on that matter in order to help you to understand what is involved in such a very different situation. I don't feel that I ever stepped on Peter's toes at any point. The whole idea has been to help you to understand the processes involved. That is what this BBS is about, MGB enthusiasts helping each other. |
| Steve S. |
| Jack, You said "So I must admit that when such an obviously skillful and knowledgable person such as Steve from virginia agreed that only a poor machinist would need to do this then I thought my original belief was correct. Obviously you would like to contest this notion, I can not say one way or another what is right and can only take note of more proffesional people's advice, so how do I choose between you and Steve and my mate." Well, I have NEVER seen Steve's work and can't comment on his skills (why is he OBVIOUSLY skilful and knowledgeable?), other than typing a great deal. I CAN comment on Peter's work as I use him exclusively to supply both modified and standard heads for my engines which have a worldwide reputation and carry 18 months no quibble guarantees - I have absolute faith in the fact Peter turns out good quality work and whether he works in a ultra clean high precision shop is almost immaterial when compared with years of working on B series (and other) cylinder heads - I leave the question of whether a weld is needed in a seat to him, he DOES actually know what he is talking about! |
| Chris at Octarine Services |
| Jack I do not weld every seat, it is only your friend that seems to have implied that. It is difficult to give you a percentage. If you said I weld one insert a month you might be near the mark, maybe 2 a month maybe none. Get a bad MGC head and it could be 6 on one head. Give me 20 DeDions to do with cracks and it would be 20. I came on this thread to respond to what I thought was a slur on my character and an unwarranted criticism of my working practices. You are still welcome to come and say hello, I do not need to tout for work from you, the invite would be so you can see what we do no strings attached we often have people drop in to make our aquaintance,on the other hand would you invite me to inspect what you do? You still haven't given me the pleasure of knowing your friends name and profession or replied to asking what you do and how you would respond to a posting like you wrote about me? It is you that opened the book Jack.As I said earlier I do not hide. All the best Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Hello Chris, sound comments I must agreee. I personally don't give a toss if someones work space is extremely tidy or not. I have found many times that the more untidy an engineer is the better and more economical his work is. Not always the case but does happen. I also agree with you that a persons ability can only be judged on their products not how much they can type. There are thousands of people who can talk a good job! Maybe I have misjudged you Peter, but I must admit that since our original conversation I have asked about a bit to find out what others think and I must say everyone who knows you has an opinion. Not always good as can be expected but yes they do have an opinion. I tend to like a person who is not afraid to speak his mind as it seems you are Peter although I do not want beating up! I must admit that I had been lead to believe that you always weld in your valve seats which I thought was not necessary if the job was done right. However you have put me right and have acknowledged that in thousands of cases that is not necessary and simple machining will surfice. Someone has been misrepresenting you Peter and I am pleased you have put me right. Perhaps one day I will pop in. By the way if you want to call me an idiot then be my guest, if you believe that I am incorrect in my opinion then it would be the correct response. It has been worthwhile to me our little conversation and what a wonderful thing this web is, sadly most people here are too patronising for my liking and thus that in my opinion is not such a good thing. May p[op back but I doubt it. |
| Jack H |
| Too bad, To see that the basic purpose of this forum pf seeking different opinions from peoples loving their car is spoiled. It is annoying to see it is a way to try to expose dispute or some kind of therapy... Behave like adults, please!!! Cheers, JGC |
| Jean Guy Catford |
| Jack you are most welcome to come and saY hi. I am sorry you have been mislead. Jean Je ne comprends pas ce que tu ecrit,pardonez moi mon francais est tres mauvais. Seule de l'ecole. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Peter, Very simple indeed: It appears to be an argument between two protagonist which is useless and does not inform us on the topic. May be it upset me slightly. And at the end I do not know what to do with valve seat problem. I once had a B valve seat replaced. After 3,000 miles it came of and I was unhappy with that. As solution the machinist punch it in place and when I saw those pinpoint marks in the head, I was mad. I still want to know what to do with that problem. Cheers, JGC |
| Jean Guy Catford |
| Jack, Don’t you just love the magic of the InterWeb! Great minds coming together to violently agree. We are blessed to have such incredible access to such a variety of minds and experiences that our lives should be nothing but one endless learning experience. Unfortunately, while we have the wiring and IP all sorted out, we can’t seem to get our minds around the process of digital discussions. Here we have Peter Burgess, Chris Betson, and Steve Strange – a trinity of wise guys – volunteering their time to share 3 lifetimes of good & bad experiences. Combine these fellows with the rest of contributing characters around the globe and I can’t imagine a more valuable resource being available anywhere at any price. If you want to learn more about your MG than you thought possible, I would advise you to stick with this crew. If they haven’t already, I’m sure they will soon forget your rocky introduction and will happily be giving you the best advice that they can to help you out on any topic you need to explore. This support will make your LBC a much happier experience, will hugely increase your knowledge & abilities, and will turn you into one of those valuable wise guys that the new owners (and goofs like me) desperately need. Good luck Joe |
| Joe Lucas |
| Amen! |
| Stu Rodger |
| Jean Can your machinist fit deeper inserts? They are available up to 8.5mm deep for MGB ex seats. It is a shame when people punch the seat surround, the cast iron is brittle and doesn't lend itself to peening. Ally can be rolled but looks a poor finish. Peter |
| peter burgess |
| Peter, Thank you for your input. I did not know that such insert exist. My problem for many years I did not modified my MGB and TR6 for unleaded afraid to have to replace valve seat. Cheers, JGC |
| Jean Guy Catford |
This thread was discussed between 22/12/2007 and 09/01/2008
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