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MG MGB Technical - Sleeved / Mag Type Lug Nuts & Washers, Minilite Ty

Well, I thought I could find this in the archives, but I could not.

Yesterday I dug out a set Minilite or Minilite type of wheels that I had bought years ago. It was a nice surprise to find that they are 5.5 x 15. If I can get enough clearance, I intend to put them on my 68 GT.

But, these wheels do not use the bevel / conical type of lug nuts, so I guess they use the sleeve type of lugs, and I also guess they use a washer. However, I have seen sleeve type lugs that use a flat washer, and I have seen sleeve type lugs that have the bevel cut on them, and they use a washer that accepts the bevel cut of the lug. The latter type is on my Sprite with the old ET slot mags. In this case they use an oval washer so that an offset washer can allow for different bolt circles.

How do I decide on the proper lugs for my wheels? The stud holes are, nominally, 11/16 inch, and the face around the hole is flycut as if to accept a washer. I did not measure the diameter of the flycut face. The hub thickness, after the flycutting, is about 9/16 inch.

My concern is, what is the centering mechanism for this type of wheel? If I use the commonly available sleeved lugs and flat washer combination, is the fit between the lug, washer, and flycut area of the wheel precise enough to center it? I don’t think the 11/16 holes in the wheels are exact enough to center on the lug sleeves, and if they were, I think the lugs would tend to seize in the wheels.

Alternatively, do I need sleeved lugs with the bevel cut for use with beveled washers? A quick google search indicates that these do not seem to be available except for the oval type washers used on the ET mags.

Also, if these are the original Minilite brand, would the name be prominently cast on the wheel? These wheels have a polished rim while the spokes retain the sand casting look.

Thanks,
Charley
C R Huff

Charley, if the shoulder of the lug nuts is a good snug fit in the wheel then either of the lug types you mentioned should work. I haven't seen the ones with the taper and have always use the flat washer type nuts with my alloy wheels. I've never had any problems with the wheel not centering even if the center of the hub does not match the diameter of the axle or front hub.
Bill Young

Thanks Bill,

I suspect you are right.

I think I will just buy some sleeved lugs with the flat washers and see how it feels.

I think the lug in the wheel will not be very snug, but I think the interface between lug and washer, and between the wheel and washer may make a good fit.

I'll see what happens.

Charley
C R Huff

Just a comment on the clearance, you should be fine with those sized wheels. I have them on my Roadsters with 185 (from memory) tires and have no rubbing issues. I believe from what it says in the archives most people start having problems when they go to 195 or wider.

Saying that the car hasn't moved from the garage yet though so perhaps when I go around an actual corner things might be different!

Simon
Simon Jansen

Thanks Simon, but I guess you haven't seen the thread about my shot front springs. I have to do something about that before I swap tires because my current 175 / 65 / 14 tires are rubbing the front plastic fender liners.

Charley
C R Huff

"if the shoulder of the lug nuts is a good snug fit in the wheel then either of the lug types you mentioned should work"

There must be a clearance otherwise you wouldn't be able to get them in and out of the wheel easily, and that has always bothered me a bit as it allows the wheel to take up various positions on the studs which might affect wheel balance. I was getting balance problems with the alloys on my V8 which uses those type of nuts, and for many years have used two Rostyle tapered nuts just nipped up on opposite studs to locate the wheel, then fit two of the sleeve nuts tightly, then replace the tapered nuts with the other two sleeve nuts.
Paul Hunt

Paul, that's an excellent idea! You then know that the wheel is exactly centered. I happen to have the lugs needed, I'll try it when I reinstall my wheels after I get the new tires (tyres) balanced.
Bill Young

Paul,

That does sound like a good idea. May I assume that you use the Rostyle lugs in conjunction with the flat washers?

Charley
C R Huff

Charley - the Rostyle lugs are used as is *just* to locate the wheel, which is why they are only just nipped up and not fully tightened. It is the taper of the nut engaging with the cylinder of the holes in the wheel which does the location.
Paul Hunt

Paul,

My thought was that if the factory intent was to center them with the washer/sleeve rather than with the wheel/sleeve, then nipping it up on the washer might be more correct.

Charley
C R Huff

Charley, I saw that but didn't make the connection sorry! I have the opposite problem and need shorter front springs. Mine are way too high! If the postage wasn't a killer you could have mine to try :)

Simon
Simon Jansen

Simon,

Hey, no need to apologize for failing to keep up with the infirmities of my cars. I can hardly keep up with them myself.

Yes, too bad about those shipping costs. They do get in the way of a lot of good trades.

Charley
C R Huff

Charley - the problem with the sleeved nuts is that because there is a clearance between those and the wheels the wheels can take up a number of positions in relation to the studs, i.e. they are *not* centered. Not much of a difference from one extreme to the other, but it is there. The beauty of the tapered nuts and wheel holes is that they ensure the wheel is always centred on the studs, at least. If you had washers between the tapered nuts and the wheel the situation would be even worse, as the wheel won't have the thickness of the sleeve between it and the studs and so will be able to take up positions which would be miles out.

Another factor is the four (on four-stud wheels) possible ways the wheel can be mounted. I've painted one stud and the back of one hole so I know I'm putting the wheel back on in the same rotational position. Really that should be done if you have managed to get on-car balancing done.
Paul Hunt

Paul,

That was a misunderstanding. I only meant that maybe the washers should be used while centering with the two taper nuts. I never intended to hold the wheels on with taper lugs.

Anyhow, I put the 15-inch wheels on the rear axel today, and centered them like you advised without the washers. The washers were not a precise fit into the flycut area of the wheels, so that was no help.

It really is nice. I rolled the tires (off the car) took the measurement, and it looks like I have an 8.1% step up on gear ratio. That with the overdrive is starting to make to a reasonable top gear.

Charley
C R Huff

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2008 and 24/11/2008

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