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MG MGB Technical - Sound Proofing.
| When the front suspension and steering is completed see thread in MGB conversions (OUT OF THE FIREPLACE) I am intending to do some proper sound proofing. I am looking to use a high tech material,E-Mat or Dyna Mat seem very similar and equaly expensive, about a £100 to do a GT. Has anyone used this type of material?and if so how effective did you find it. I intend using it on the bulkhead, footwells,transmission tunnel floors, rear bulkhead under the rear seat and boot floor and side areas. The seats are coming out any way to be replaced with some grey leather piped green which i think will contrast nicely with the new Jaguar Alpine Green two pack metallic paint. The intention is to achieve a car that will be comfortable to drive on a regular basis,and not to be tiring due to the ingress of engine and road noise. Picture of new colour. http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e258/castletine/P4010004.jpg Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
| Nice looking car Kevin! I used Dynamat on my restoration and the car seems very solid! Even with mine being a convertible, I can tell the difference with road noise coming through the floor and doors. The floor and tranny tunnel are also much cooler. The main difference to me is the solid feel of the car! Gregg Hanks http://homepage.mac.com/racerx69/Menu4.html 73 MGB SC 63 MGB 69 MGC GT 70 E-Type 2+2 |
| G Hanks |
| I use Grace Ice Shield. Cheaper and better. V |
| vem myers |
| Hi Kevin, I used Dyna mat on my '66 5 years ago and I am really pleased. All similar materials should have the same effects. I agree with G Hanks: cooler, quieter and feels more solid (less tinny. A new molded gear box tunnel carpet still fit after application with no problems. I have obvious recommendations prior to installation: 1. PREPERATION : Remove all of the old factory sound deadening material. Use a scraper (not a grinder). In my MGB experience the factory material traps dirt round the edges of the lines; the dirt traps moisture and so rust begins. Clean and paint the floor. 2. APPLICATION : I do not recommend putting the factory-type insulation back at allit does not work as well anyway and will trap dirt/moisture.... Place the new material down with rust and heat in mind. Use the largest pieces available. Don't leave seams or areas in the corner that will trap dust/moisture. Do the drivers side first in case you run out of material (it aint cheap). Of course, place it over the gear box tunnel and over the exhaust. |
| jjralston |
| Thanks guy's Greg & JJ you have confirmed what the UK suppliers say about the e-dead or dynamat products, it is a lot more expensive in the uk about $160 for 60 sq ft but sounds a worthwhile investment. Vem, I don't think there is anything like Grace Ice Shield over here but thanks for your comment. Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
| Barney Gaylord has kindly put my article on the subject on his MGA site, think it's under "body" FRM |
| FR Millmore |
| Hi Kevin I did mine with the sound mats from 'Car builder solutions'. They were a fair bit cheaper than the dyno mat and came in more manageable sections! I have done the whole car (195 BHP VVC K series BGT) and the difference in immense! Closing the doors now feels like you are in something much more substantial. I still get the compulsory wind noise from the quarter lights, but the tinny resonance is gone! One of the best mods I did.... |
| Ed Braclik |
| I used 6 inch window flash lapped 2 inches, similar to the ice gaurd, but 7 mil thick, for the inside of the doors. Check archives for a long thread 2 years ago documenting my app-tech for the deadner and the secret application for the hood. Vic |
| vem myers |
| Try "another Option for Noise Reduction" search archive,where I blather on and on about a really good fix for the subject. Vic |
| vem myers |
| Very nice color, Kevin! For those of you who've installed Dyna-Mat or some similar product, how much did it raise your seats off the floor? (I'm tall!) warmly, dave |
| Dave Braun |
| Hey Dave, Zero. The seats still set on the pedestals that sit on the floor surface itself. I cut out holes in the Dynamat to allow for that. The seat rail boards still sit on the carpet which is on the Dynamat, but the seat pedestals are still the limiting factor with regard to seat height. Gregg Hanks http://homepage.mac.com/racerx69/Menu4.html 73 MGB SC 63 MGB 69 MGC GT 70 E-Type 2+2 |
| g hanks |
| Good plan Gregg. Thanks! |
| Dave Braun |
| Vem. Did you use Grace Ice Shield under the hood as well? |
| Dave E |
| Kevin, Not a specific answer to your original question but a reference to a site mentioned on this BBS some time ago which may be of use. Link is: www.sounddeadenershowdown.com Cheers , Pete. |
| Peter Thomas |
| Dave E- No, that's the secret killer: Entry foot mats from Home Depot, about 3 x 4 x 3/4" thick very dense asphalt type @ $16/mat. Cut 1/2 to 3/4 wider,longer, and tuck it in between the rails and backside of the hood. The silencing is unbeleieveable. See the archives on "Another Option for Noise Reduction".Vic |
| vem myers |
| I am in the process of adding a sound deadener now myself. After searching the archives and surfing the Internet I figured Grace Ice Shield was the best option for me. It goes down extremely easy. I did find that any lose dirt will make it for it will not stick to well. I thought I had it clean before I started but I ended up removing the first section I was putting in. I wire brushed, vacuumed and wiped down the hole area I wanted to cover. Then started again. Also on the Grace Ice Shield I found if I heated it with a heat gun it conformed easier and stuck better to the floor and to itself. I have the other half of the car to do today. Then on to installing the carpets. |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| Did anyone notice a smell like tar when the car heats up? I have a version of the same stuff in my other car (Suzuki Samurai v6) and on a hot day, I can smell the stuff. Most of these products are made of the same material. |
| kids1 |
| Greg/Kevin, Nice looking cars. Kevin, I would love to pull my engine at some time and just clean/paint and re-wire. How difficult is it to pull the engine? Seems like I read somewhere about forks and special tools to get the transmission and engine back together or it was the clutch etc. My engine runs well and was supposenly rebuilt before I owned it. I'd still like to do a complete engine clean up, fix some studs on the manifold, paint etc. Looks like you had a lot of powder coating done? Nice job, lot's of money :-) Best regards, Doug |
| DT Toms |
| Here is the data sheet on Grace ice and water shield: http://www.graceathome.com/pages/downloads/GIWS-060.pdf I used Peel-And-Seal which comes under many names: http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf |
| kids1 |
| I heated each section I put up with a heat gun and did not notice any smell. And I had my head up in the foot well right there as I was heating it. I also did some test on my work benmch and really put the heat to 2 peaces bonding them together. I over heated them until they started melting. I did not notice a smell when I did this. It could be that my smeller is just not working right (broke my nose to many time boxing when I was younger) but if it was not strong enough for me to smell I am not going to worry about it. I went out this morning to check the side I did yesterday and it is bonded real good. I could not pull it loose. I do not know what I will do if I ever need to remove it. |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| OK I was just out doing the other side. (i'm on lunch break now)I did notice a smell this time. But only because I was thinking about it. I do not think it will be to bad when the hole car is done. At least I hope not. Bob |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| RSF- I'm going to strongly urge you to use the footmat liner for your hood, since you are clearly seriously interested in deadening sound and appear to be willing to spend the time investment required. Get to me off-Board at Vemarooski@aol.com and I'll send you a jpeg of my first install. Since then, I've done all 4 hoods, with equal excellent results! Kids1- I beleive the "tar smell" to be largely urban myth. After application the bitch is always covered with pad and carpet or isolated with the underdash covers. I just have not had any smell emination and want to dispel that "assumed" drawback as I think it knocks a great technique and puts folks off. RSF- If you haven't already, purchase a roll of window flash bitch in the 9-12" wide rolls. It's a bit thinner, but perfect to do the inside of the doors and the back skin side behind the rollup glass, which makes door closure a thunk and a pleasure. I also use the window flash for the splash box and arch areas trunk and cockpit side Vic |
| vem myers |
| Vic, I have the smell and it is strong on hot days when the car has been closed up. Then again, mine is Peel-and-Seal which may be different somehow. A friend and I took it for a 400 mile trip from FL to n.Texas and back the long way. He mentioned it on the first day and I had not told him of the installation. We tried covering seams and edges with duct tape to trap the scent. Bob, removing it is fairly easy on a very cold day with a putty knife. The colder, the stiffer. I haven't decided what to do with mine yet. I have a roll 3'x36' in the garage. Cost me $85. |
| kids1 |
| That was a 4000 mile trip. Sorry I couldn't edit it. |
| kids1 |
| VEM since you mentioned it I was thinking about the foot mat for the hood. Just have not gotten that far yet. I was also thinking about what you said on the doors. Since I have all the window components out this would be a good time to do that. I have been heating the Grace ice shield to get it to adhere real good to the floor and sides. I would be afraid to do that on the door exspecaly since it was just painted a few days ago. |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| Well I finished installing the Grace Ice shield. It took me about 12 hours to do. I'm not sure if I did it right but as far as I can tell it turned out OK. Here is the URL to a couple Pics of it. http://www.3fowlers.com/images/mgb/MGB%20sound%20dead%20002.jpg http://www.3fowlers.com/images/mgb/MGB%20sound%20dead%20001.jpg Today I just finished installing the carpet. I'm not happy with it. I got a carpet kit from VB and it did not fit well. I made due with what I had though. Tomorrow I will be working on the center console and maybe the dash. |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| Apologies for not responding to some of your threads. I have been watching the interesting inputs and taking on board the various comments and recomendations. Vem. Not sure we have anything similar to Grace ice shield in the UK but will do a little research at the builders merchants! Pete, I checked out sounddeadeners on line and found that the company is NF developments, very good company which produce lots goodies for the kit car market and used to produce the Ferrari P4 replica, they also make a pinion shaft for the MGB with an additional u/j at the rack end which might be helpful for chrome bumper conversions. Anyway their sound deadening product is a lot more expensive than what you can buy e-mat for off of e-bay, so still looking in that direction. Doug, Thanks for your comments, the engine bay is the same as when I did the engine conversion about 3yrs ago and all I did, was when the old B lump was removed completely strip the whole bay back to bare metal, I then treated it with rustcure carefully working it into all the seams and then brush painting the whole area with Hammerite. The engine bay wasn't very rusty, just some surface corrosion around the shelf which holds the pedal assembly,heater and brake servo. Pleased to say that there's been no return of any rust even where there is the odd chip in the paint. The engine bay need good clean after the repaint as the dust from rubbing down gets everywhere. The heater box was stripped, cleaned, primed, and painted with an aerosol and came out pretty well. The only area which was powder coated was the crossmember and wishbones, I bought a spare crossmember and had a spare set of lower wishbones which made it easy to have the powder coating done and assemble the new Moss coilover suspension off the car, then install it in one lump. I didn't go to the expence off pulling the engine and having the engine bay painted to body colour, you have to draw the line somewhere and the black engine bay looks fine in contrast to the new paint colour. Anyway back to the sound proofing, this is the next job and I was looking for confirmation that these products are effective and from your comments it certainly seems worthwhile,if it costs about a £100.00 to achieve a quieter driving enviroment with a more solid feel to the car especially the doors it will be very worthwhile. I am going to have to fit an additional centre silencer because at the moment with the RV8 single box system it sounds like a Nascar racer if you give it some stick and although fun it becomes a bit tiring after a while. I am currently waiting for a trim kit from Moss who were most helpful in getting a vinyl to match the grey leather seats, they are doing the kit at no extra charge and also supplying a matching console lid and gear lever gaiter, so will pull out the old trim and seats in a week or two and get started, sounds like it going to be a couple of weekends work but the finished product should be worth the effort. Will report back when it's done with some pics of the new interior, Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
| Sorry if it's been mentioned, but this was posted a while back and may give you some ideas. I seem to remember the chap was a pro in the field? http://www.vord.net/cars/mgb_mods/noise/sound-proofing.html |
| Steve Postins |
| Sorry all I see my links did not work. SO I put up a page and put some pics of the Ol'Lady's MGB there. You can see the sound deadening material I installed there. Again I am not sure I needed to do as much as I did but I could not see how it would hurt. http://www.3fowlers.com/Outside_main_web.htm |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| Bob. That about covers it then! Nice job and I don't think you can use too much. Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
| Bob, where are you in VA? I am in Richmond and would like to compare notes. |
| Dave E |
| I'm near Bedford. Out on the lake. |
| RSF Bob Fowler |
| After reading some of the comments, I've got one for you guys, http://www.secondskinaudio.com/ , try this maybe? It seems the material is thicker, no odor, although it maybe be a little pricier, possibly works better? I've always believed you get what you pay for. Just a thought. Geoff |
| Geoff Lund |
| Only one comment here. Make sure you not only cover the commonly thought of areas, but also the WHOLE of the underside of the firewall. Many installations I have seen end only on the lower vertical section up from the foot well floor. Heat and noise also move in from the underside of the "shelf" part of the firewall AND the second upper vertical section too. Do the whole job and you should be as well protected as you can be in an old car like the B. |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| Thanks Bob that's a good point. I had a good look when I had the seats out last weekend to trial fit my new seats. The whole area above the tunnel level is basically without any soundproofing at all, so must be a major source of noise being transmitted to the passenger compartment.Probably dificult to get everything covered without a complete strip down but certainly scope for improvement. Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
| Hey Kevin- The "top-cabin"-Plus job includes the splash boxes and wheel arches from the cockpit and boot side. Vic |
| vem myers |
| Vem. Thanks this is beginning to look like a marathon job.I will just cover what I can get at. Geof Second skin is available in the uk but is about twice the price of E-Mat which is available on e-bay 60sq.ft. for £95.00 but again twice the US price or more at current exchange rates.I think it will probably need more to cover everything. I'll do the floors,tunnel,front and rear bulkheads, the floor under the back seat and the boot floor and sides and see how quiet that makes it, not expecting Lexus quiet, but should make quite an inprovement. Kevin. |
| Kevin Jackson |
This thread was discussed between 08/04/2007 and 26/04/2007
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