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MG MGB Technical - Spin on oil filter, warning.
| G'day. I recently had to remove the starter motor and to do this had to remove the spin on filter adapter plate (the large alloy object in the picture.) I refitted it and about 30K into a trip the oil filter fell off. These adapters are commonly available in Australia and probably elsewhere. The picture shows the fitting (inside the rubber O ring) that screws into the long bolt next to it and the whole thing screws into the engine block and hold the adapter plate in position. The fitting with the 6 holes in it failed as shown in the next thread. I strongly suspect I over tightened it and caused the failure myself but thought it worth advising anyone else out there that it happened just in case it is a fault in manufacture. Tony  |
| Tony Oliver |
| This picture shows what is left of the fitting, the rest of the filter assembly is somewhere in NSW. As said before, probably my fault but you can clearly see that the small part was part of the fitting with the 6 holes in the previous entry. It has sheared off completely. Tony  |
| Tony Oliver |
| What cracked me up when I was changing my oil the first time was the fact that the oil filter is mounted upright so the oil spills out when you remove it. It was a pain in the ass and oil went feckin' everywhere! Without going and looking, can the filter mount be mounted onto the engine the other way up so the filter holds the oil? Just curious! |
| Ross Kelly |
| Ross, some of the 1970 to 1974 export modells made use of this type of filter base, with the caride projecting to the bottom. There is a parts dealer on the continent, Anglo Parts, that stocks it. May be Moss USA also can deliver this design. If you change the upright mouted filter take care to pick the right one WITH diaphragm or bleed it empty by loosening the line to the oil cooler and push a whole into the top of the canister before you spinn off the caridge. Tony, the filter base shown in your pics seems to show a non origional verion. Try to compare it to the stock design and you will find out the differences. Ralph |
| Ralph |
| Ross, The filter in Tony's picture is a modification to do just that! It allows the spin on filter to dangle down, making for clean oil changes. Moss and MGOC both sell these for about £20. I have one on the bench that I will fit next time the engine is out. You have to use a different spin on filter than the normal MGB one. I think it is the same as the midget spin on filter. Tony, Thanks for the warning, I shall be gentle when fitting mine!! Cheers Iain 67 BGT |
| I D Cameron |
| If you let the system drain for a while, it isn't messy at all. The mistake people make is draining the oil, then immediately removing the upright filter. On a LHD car you should be able to install a hanging spin-on filter. On RHD you cannot because the steering rack is in the way. |
| Steve Simmons |
| Tony. The standard 18V oil filter adapter will bolt right up to any of the four main bearing blocks. I have such a conversion on my 68GT. I have never had to loosen the adapter to remove and replace the starter. Ross. As Steve notes, allowing the system to drain for a while is the key. If you do that, the oil spillage is minimal. I put an old "kitty litter" pan under the filter area and that catches what little oil remains. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Sorry Gents. I was a bit short on information. It is an aftermarket kit fitted to an 18GBUH motor, but it is suitable for most 'B' series engines. The actual amount of metal left to hold it all together after the holes have been drilled to allow the oil to flow through is very small. I think the upside-down type looks a lot stronger but they are not as coomon as the other type. Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| steve you can fit one to rhd cars as thats nearly the same as the original filter set-up on early cars and the steering rack misses it iain the filter is a mini one or a gfe173 which is an anti syphon one. |
| Ste Brown |
| The filter was hanging first, then upended for some years, than hanging again for a very short while before being upended again. I reckon the original reason for moving it from hanging to upended had been forgotten and they got so many complaints about the mess when changing the filter on a recently run car that they tried it the other way again, only to very soon discover why they changed it to upended in the first place! If you change the oil and filter cold then fair enough, but the recommendation is to change it hot. I've been doing some timing tests on various filters recently and you would probably have to leave it to drain for several days with some, a minimum of overnight with others. After starting the oil draining I pull a few thicknesses of newspaper under my filter so that it forms a sort of cup. Spin off the old filter which loses about 1/2" of oil as viewed down the centre hole, then pull the middle of the newspaper 'cup' downwards over the tray which I have under the car anyway whilst doing an oil-change. Might need a bit of a wipe with more newspaper down the side of the block and the flange the sump bolts up to, but that's it, no dripping on the garage floor afterwards. |
| Paul Hunt 2 |
| I change hot, let it drain for 30-60 minutes and then remove the filter. I don't get that much oil spill. A rag wrapped around the base of the filter mount catches whatever does come out. Interesting about the hanging filters on RHD cars. I've never seen one, and it just doesn't LOOK like it would fit. I may look into this, because I hate the filter being in the way when I'm trying to loosen or tighten the dizzy clamp. |
| Steve Simmons |
| Steve, the hanging filter fits a RHD car. When I got the car it had the original filter which hung down and the after market version also hung down, before it dropped off that is. The only problems it causes is with the removal of the starter. Not a commonly performed task but it's a bit of a pain having to not only take the filter off, but also having to take the adapter off. From what you are saying I assume the upright filter interferes with the distributor clamp. Is that right? Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| It doesn't interfere directly with it, but it does limit the space available to get your hand and a wrench in there to loosen or tighten the nut. See here: http://www.mgnuts.com/mgbgt/accessories/oilfilter.jpg |
| Steve Simmons |
| In that photo, also note the steering column directly under the filter. The hanging unit must be a lot tighter to the engine somehow. This weekend I'll try to remember to compare a Moss hanging spin-on adapter to the factory inverted unit seen in the photo above, and figure out the differences. |
| Steve Simmons |
| Tony. Please note my original post. The factory 18V oil filter adapter does not get in the way of the steering column, does not affect access to the distributor, nor its clamp, and has worked quite well for several hundreds of thousands of cars. Very minor oil spillage, when changing filters, when changed after having let the sump drain for one half hour. Why use a second rate, aftermarket, "adapter" when the factory design is so much superior? Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Thanks Steve. Thats the first picture I've seen of the upright type. I am seriously thinking of getting one of those to replace the hanging type. Don't feel confident about the type I had fitted anymore after seeing the amount of metal that holds it all together. The hanging type sits very close to the block and is vertically orientated. The upright type obviously angles away from the block. Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| I do prefer the hanging type because it IS cleaner to change. It's also less in the way when performing maintenance. But the inverted filter isn't really that bad. As for aftermarket adapters, I've had a Moss adapter on my '65 for many, many years. It's quite solid and I wouldn't hesitate to put one on any daily driver. |
| Steve Simmons |
| Les, I think the adapter I have my eye on is a factory model using an upright filter. Does the adapter have a non-return valve or do I need a filter with non-return? I have a feeling I have read somewhere that a non-return is required on the upright filter. Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| Tony, The check valve is in the filter. Get a good one. I had a Fram filter that was completely empty when I changed it because the check valve did nothing. I had a Mann that did hold oil. When you say "upright" I assume you mean in the position that dumps the oil when you remove the filter. Charley |
| C R Huff |
| Tony, Not sure which adaptor you are currently considering. The one I have is from an Austin of like vintage to the Bs and it takes the Ryco Z23 filter, to my knowledge the only available filter here for the adaptor type, which has a 1/2" BSP screw fitting for the filter. Price here is around $23-26. Important with the Ryco is that it comes with both the anti-drain valve (LOL) and the pressure bypass valve built in. The adaptor itself does not have a bypass valve. The factory top-mounting cartridge type filter adaptor for the B contained the bypass valve in the housing. It was this one that I changed for the spin-on filter type. The latter does at least make for somewhat cleaner changes with appreciably less oil spill. It is possible to have a thread unit made for the changed version I have - that would be 1/2" BSP into the adaptor housing and, say, a 3/4" UNF thread for the filter itself. That would make for a wider range of filter choices, both Ryco and other brands, but whichever you chose would still need the bypass valve, with or without the anti-drain back feature. Do you have a photo of the type of adaptor you are considering? By the way I have one of the adaptors you pictured. Like you I was concerned about the extent to which it could be torqued into the block so tried a star washer between washer and nut. Don't do it! That prevents the filter seal from seating properly. Took me about 2 litres of oil on the garage floor to spot that. I have seen them successfully installed on club cars here however. Les, your point about the 18V adaptor is valid for the several hundred thousand cars in the US but trying to get one down here is like finding a hens tooth. They are on the rubber bumper Bs that have been imported since local production ceased, but convincing an owner of one of those to hand it over is altogether another matter. They realise what they have! Regards Roger |
| Roger T |
| I changed over from the inverted cartridge type filter (OE, 68) to the hanging style spin adapter very shortly after I put my car back on the road in 1988. Not only did it make for less messy changes, but I reasoned that since it was hanging upside down, I would not have to worry about it draining back into the sump and having to refill at start up. Then it also occurred to me that with the hanging type, there is always a bit extra oil in the system, since, when measuring at the dipstick, the pan's oil level does not reflect the amount in the filter. I have run like this for almost 20 yrs now and have had no problems. The only downside is that when having to replace the starter, you must remove the filter as there is only about 1/4" clearance between the filter and the end of the starter, making it impossible to remove the starter without removing the filter. Not a big deal, but something to be aware of. Perhaps also a reason why filters flip-flopped over time. Perhaps mechanics complained of this situation as making more work for them?? |
| Bob Muenchausen |
| To add a bit more to the discussion, I have been using a K & N oil filter on my '77 "B" for probably the last ten or so years. What is great is the filter has a "nut" wleded to the top of the casing, which makes it very easy to unfasten. They are a bit pricey, but I think that they are worth it. Their site is: www.knfilters.com Donald Elliott Noblesville, Indiana |
| DonaldElliott |
| Tony. You need an oil filter having an anti-drain feature incorporated into the filter design. The Mann W917 works very well as do the K&N. Size of the threaded portion of the 18V adapter (the portion the filter screws onto) is 3/4"-16 UNF. A fairly common size. If, as Roger suggests, the 18V oil filter adapter is rare in Oz, it is not that rare here in Arizona and the economy is weak with the US dollar down in value. It should be possible to find a good, used 18V oil filter adapter at a lower price than Moss wants for their reproduction 18V oil filter adapter. If anyone from outside the US wants an 18V oil filter adapter, send me an e-mail through my website (Les@custompistols "dot" com) with "MG Oil Filter" in the subject line. I will get the e-mail address for Bob and Gil Schaulin and forward any e-mails to them. I have no commercial relationship with their wrecking yard, except as a frequent customer. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Thanks Gents. So much to learn. Here is a link to Evilbay showing the part for sale that I am considering. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320240423020&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011 Also, Roger is right on the money. The number of spares available over here is limited. Most commonly available ones are easily got through various specialist suppliers, but more esoteric ones are just not available here. Overseas is often the only avenue of supply. Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| Tony. Standard 18V oil filter adapter. You will also want the bolt that secures it to the engine block. When fitting, you would want to use a new copper washer between the head of the bolt and the bottom of the adapter and a new rubber sealing ring between the adapter and the block. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Thanks Les. I'll have a bid on it in that case. What size bolt holds it on? Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| Les, Does the standard 18V adaptor have the pressure bypass valve incorporated into the housing as the cartridge type did, or does that need to be in the spin-on filter case? Regards Roger |
| Roger T |
| Roger, It does not have bypass valve. It requires a filter with a bypass valve. Clifton |
| Clifton Gordon |
| Thanks Clifton. |
| Roger T |
| Tony. Had to dig through my spare parts to find a loose bolt for the 18V oil filter adapter. It measures as follows: Over all length: 3.329" Length of shaft: 2.994" Length of threaded section: 1.297" Diameter of untreaded shaft: .495" Diameter of threaded shaft: .487" Pitch of threads: 13 tpi AF of the hex head: .741" Copper washer between the head of the bolt and the bottom of the oil filter adapter measures: Thickness: .045" Outer diameter: .675" Inner diameter: .518" Thread pattern is 1/2"-13 Unified National Coarse and the bolt is of a nominal 3" length (length of the shaft determines bolt length). This should allow you to purchase what you need if the used adapter does not come with the bolt and washer. Les |
| Les Bengtson |
| Wow! Thanks Les. That should be enough for me to source a bolt. Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| Tony, That ebay ad said they were breaking several GTs for parts. Seems that they should have the mounting bolt you need. Charley |
| C R Huff |
| Tony, What Rodger T said is exactly what I did. I grabed an upright spin-on oil filter bracket from an Austin 1800 at a wrecker for about $20. It is exactly the same as the 18V one except it has a different thread size. The Filter to use is a Ryco Z23 for the 1800 bracket or the Z38 for the MBG bracket. The two filters are exactly the same with anti drain back tube and preasure relief valve, the only difference is the thread in the end. I found it to be very neat to change. With the anti drain back tube it doesnt empty it's self all over the place when you take it off. So before you order one from overseas, have a look around your local wrecker yards to see if they have some Austin 1800s you can take one off. You can then make sure you get all the bolts & wshers & things. From what I can see you can't fit an upright filter if you have a generator (MK1), Also due to the length of the MK2 starter motor, it doesn't look like a handing one will fit, But correct me if I'm wrong. I just found a good picture I took of the engine before I put it in the car, showing the filter setup. Tony if you can tell me how to put images up like you did I can show you. |
| Matt |
| Thanks Matt. On the part just under this when you reply there is an "Upload" link. Click on that, browse your picture till you get the right one and then tell it to upload. I didn't get the UK one as a long time MGB owner told me he could get a filter adapter from a Morris Major. With your suggestion of the 1800 motor I will have a go at some of the local wreckers. Trouble is, very few wreckers around this area will have anything to do with old Morris type cars. Flash wheels and other junky stuff for rev heads is more their style! Tony |
| Tony Oliver |
| I wasn't logged in before so it wasn't there. Anyway here is the picture, I hope it helps. Good luck with finding a bracket. If You can't find one let me know and I'll see if I can dig one up.  |
| MD Johnson |
This thread was discussed between 17/04/2008 and 26/04/2008
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