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MG MGB Technical - Steering and direction

hi there,
I drove the whole summer the GT and was a pleasure after all the problems... now it's just a feeling but should I take it more seriously .. at the beginning the steering wheel was quite stiff as the car hasn't been driven for a while and more and more it becomes easier to turn but recently as I had to force a bit on the steering as I am parking in a difficult area I feel liek the steering wheel is getting loosen ...

is it possible? should I make it checked by a mechanic? thanks a lot
Alexia

Alexia, come to Scotland and take your porridge first thing every morning and that will fix your problem.

On a more serious note it seems that your king pins might be starting to seize. Jack up the front of the car and with the weight off the wheels grease the three nipples on each side until fresh grease can be seen coming from the thrust washers and the bottom pivot. Move the steering back and forth and grease again if you wish. Hopefully you have caught it in time and this will improve the situation.
Iain MacKintosh

hi Iain,

thanks for the offer but I am not sure that the porridge will fix my problem (I don't understand the scottish humour i think ... :) ) ... I'll make it checked then as I can't jack up myself the car I would be transformed in porridge by the car crashing on me !!

have a nice ride with your GT
Alexia
Alexia

Alexia - I always weigh in when I see people, particularly people who might be somewhat new to working on their cars, being advised to jack up the front of their MGB.

Most people will take their hydraulic jack, put it under the MGB crossmember and lift away. It is crucial to "hook" the cup of the jack to the back edge of the cross member to prevent the car slipping off the cross member, ruining the radiator, your day, and maybe yourself.

The jack should have high and low edges, and the rear edge of the cross member should nestle in nicely. Of course, once up, jack stands are required.

Safety Fast!
John Z

John,

I would never go under an MGB without all the safety checked ... never rely on a jack !!
Alexia

You could also check your steering rack boots for leaks and make sure the rack has oil in it perhaps?

Simon
Simon Jansen

Alexia,

Pardon my look to the simple: Have you checked the air pressure in the tires? Low pressure equals difficult steering. Also, what do you mean by the steering wheel feels loose? The wheel itself is fastened by a nut which can come loose.
Paul Hanley

Alexia - please don't misunderstand. 98% or more people know about and believe in jack stands. I was talking about having the car slide down the flat and (usually) slippery flat bottom of the cross member during that transition time when you would be picking up and getting ready to place the jack stands under the car.

If you already knew about the lip on the hydraulic jack, so much the better!

Octagonally,

John
John Z

I think we must at least credit our regular board readers with the knowledge of being able to jack a vehicle up safely and the safety precautions needed thereafter if not the ability to ask how to do it. As a engineer for over 30 years I fully support the need for Health and Safety but if we were to adopt H&S policies literally we wound never get anything done AT ALL. This lady has been an avid contributor to our board for a long time now and it is great that she is enjoying her MG so much. She is having the car checked by others which is fine and now also has an idea how to point them in the right direction.
Keep coming back to the Board Alexia and let us know how you get on.
Iain MacKintosh

Then why have members of this board reported putting holes in their radiators on occaision?

Like Alexia and anyone with half a brain I never crawled under a car supported only by a jack. That's not the issue.

But I learned on this board that it is more than possible to have the car slip off the cross member, as the thing is flat without inherent catches, in the moment before putting on the stands. I don't know if I naturally hooked up the edge of the cross member when raising the front end, or if I was merely lucky for the first several years I owned the car.

But I was happy to learn of a more fail safe technique through the good graces of the people on this BBS, and use that knowledge everytime I raise the car.

No aspersions meant or implied.

John Z

Have to disagree, Iain. A novice could well read a simplified 'jack it up' instruction aimed at someone else more knowledgeable and *not* be aware of the pitfalls. I was a novice once and almost found out the hard way about locking the jack cup behind the back edge of the front cross-member that John Z mentions, fortunately it didn't slip right off. The thing is for no one to take offence when the advice is given but not personlly needed.
Paul Hunt 2

Maybe that's true Paul but I was basing my comments on the fact that Alexia has been around this board for a long time and I didn't therefore consider her to be a novice. I do agree that there are many jacking pitfalls and for someone who has never done this before it can be a minefield. In this context John's points are well made
Iain MacKintosh

ouhouh guys please !! thanks Iain for the compliment about me not being a novice! and it's true as I have been many times changing engine parts myself, working on the bodyshell, painting my car with waxoyl underneath and Iain was a great source of understandable advices especially for a french girl!

anyway I've seen that another one has some problems with his steering wheel but the opposite issue.. I would bet on my kingpins or bolts which are seizing ... will let you know guys
happy drive!!
Alexia

Funny, I've never seen mention of a car slipping off the jack for that particular reason. My crossmember has a concave area right in the middle. Whether it's by design or whether it's there from thousands of jackings pushing up on that spot I don't know. But I always place the jack there without problem. I also leave the parking brake off / out of gear until the car is up to prevent the changing angle of the car from rocking the jack, and to prevent the crossmember moving away from the jack as is goes up and back. Once up, I always put the hand brake on. But in case no one knows this, ALWAYS leave the car out of gear (in neutral) when jacked up!
Steve Simmons

Ah Steve, you've picked up the very points that were in my mind. On one of my cars the underside of the cross member is slightly indented, the other is correct and completely flat. The jack pad moves forward during jacking and is in real risk of slipping off the front edge. As long as you are aware of this you can position it near the rear to prevent this happening. I too jack the car on the level with the handbrake off to allow the car to come forward with the jack but I'm afraid I couldn't confidently recommend this to others. You really have to watch this every step of the way but I don't know of any other way to do it. I personally would not use John Zs method of "hooking the cup" presumably half and half over the rear edge of the crossmember as this puts a twisting action of the cup locating pin. I very recently had this situation on my Audi A4 and the offset losad actually broke the retaining circlip and pulled both the cup and pin out of the jack. Luckily I had stands under the car and no harm or damage was done.

When jacking any vehicle for that matter with a trolley jack it must either be done with the handbrake off (not recommended) otherwise the jack must be on a smooth surface to allow it follow the cup centre. The bigger the trolley jack the less the problem. Either way you must continually check the security of jack location as you lift the vehicle.
Iain MacKintosh

I haven't heard it mentioned here, but when jacking up the front end, I block the rear tires front and back sides. When jacking, the trolley jack will move ever so slowly on it's wheels to make up for the horizontal movement of the jacking point. I've also jacked up both the front and rear ends of the car while the opposite end is on jack stands, still relying on the jack to take care of the horizontal movement.
As Iain says, this all takes complete care and attention, keeping one's body and extremities well out of the way, going slowly and methodically.
Bill

A bit of levity on the discussion of jack stands. Has anyone read the warning on the jack stand?

I collect warning labels and signs, most of which are really liability protection notices.

Here is what my moderately expensive, heavy duty, jack stands say.

"WARNING - DO NOT WORK ON OR UNDER A VEHICLE WHILE IT IS SUPPORTED BY JACK STANDS"

Ok, so what are they supposed to be used for?
Bruce Cunha

It is interesting to read the advice on the jacking point for the front of the MG. I certainly will look more closely when I jack up the front next time. I always use blocks under the rear wheels and stands, I believe my front member has a depression in the middle either by design, good luck or repeated lifting. When jacking up the rear I have always positioned the cup of the jack under the join of the cover and the cover face of the diff. I would be interested in any comments in this regard.
David Levy

I don't bother blocking the rear wheels when I jack up the front as the handbrake is adequate. I do block the front wheels when jacking up the rear, and position the cup as you describe. Again getting this wrong can cause the diff to slip on the cup. I also only jack up under the middle by exception, preferring to jack each side up independantly right out by the wheels. Jacking in the middle puts the whole weight of the car over a much longer length of the axle than normal - double the force over several times the distance and all that.
Paul Hunt 2

I don't think you are ever going to eliminate all risk when jacking a car. As for axle stands carrying a health warning I think it is only normal that any manufacturer would apply such a warning but my understanding on this is that the US manufacturer is responsible for the stand for life, even if it is resurrected from a dump and that's one tall order.

I'm never happy working under a car on stands, the welding could crack, pins shear or just tip. I have to admit to using stands but usually try to leave the jack in as well. I am not happy about jacking one end of the car when the other is on stands again just in case the stands tip but I think it all just goes to highlight how dangerous an operation this can be and how much care we must take before lifting our vehicles let alone venturing underneath. I'm sure that you have all seen cars jacked in strange places and this highlights the knowledge that is required and a good understanding of physics before any lifting loads are applied.
Iain MacKintosh

Some times when my car is on axle stands I put a spare wheel or 2 under the car as an extra precaution.

I have not had a trolley jack cup slip from under the front cross member or the rear diff. But I always make sure the garage floor is clean and the castors are lined up so that the there is no resistance to the jack creeping as it rises.

David
David Witham

Ancient undulating paving or sloping gravel are my options so I appreciate all of the safety reminders above.
Steve Postins

This thread was discussed between 11/10/2005 and 17/10/2005

MG MGB Technical index

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