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MG MGB Technical - Steering column telescoping.

'73 BGT - my inner column is a little too willing to "telescope" in and out while driving. It can travel about 2", and I'm looking for ideas as to how to tighten the grip of the upper nylon bush, preferably without losing the semi-collapse feature for obvious reasons. Am I missing something? - I can't find the specific issue in the archives.
In theory it might be possible to insert wedges, thanks to the corrugated design of the upper nylon bush - but someone may well have come up with a solution before.
All advice gratefully received - sorry I can't for the life of me get the picture to transfer in the correct orientation.
John.



J P Hall

It sounds like your column has had an impact and collapsed. Often occurs when removing the wheel with brute force.

I’m surprised there’s nothing in the archives. There certainly is in the midget & Sprite archives. Have a look there, it should give you a few pointers, although it’s nothing to do with the grip of the upper bush.
Dave O'Neill 2

"sorry I can't for the life of me get the picture to transfer in the correct orientation."

Well of course you can't! You live upside down on the bottom of the world.

Seriously, have a read of Paul Hunt's long article on the steering column here http://mgb-stuff.org.uk/suspensiontext.htm#column

Mike Howlett

Mine does this, too, but only by about 1/4". I suspect for the wheel removal issue mentioned by Dave.

Another issue: has anybody else found the plastic bush (as illustrated by John), singularly lacking in its ability to take up play? I had up and down play at the wheel end. Replaced it (third time), along with the one at the bottom, and still have same issues with new one. Anybody had one made up in phospor bronze?
Peter Allen

Unlike the later full energy-absorbing column the mid-era collapsible inner is only held in position by the UJ. Disconnecting that allows the whole column to move in and out through the tube, so yes if that happens with the U/J attached it is the shear pegs that have sheared.

The later full energy-absorbing column has the upper half retained by a bearing and circlips, so when the shear pegs go on those the only effect at the wheel is a little more rotational free play than normal, no in and out movement.
paulh4

Thanks all - I had read your detailed sections Paul, and following your comment it appears I need to go back to square one, remove and disassemble steering column; repair or replace depending on what I find. I'll report back with anything that might interest others.
John.
J P Hall

My '70 GT had the same issue when I acquired it, so I took the whole column out and dismantled it. The "rounded rectangular", collapsable section had 2 (I think) plastic "pins", only about 3 or 4 mm in diameter, maintaining the column length. Both of these were sheared.
No obvious frontal impact, more likely stuck steering wheel and a lot of pulling, whacking at some time.
Allan Reeling

So: - First pic confirms everyone's suspicions - at some stage in its life, upward (pulling) pressure has sheared enough of the top 2 epoxy nibs to enable about 2" upward travel of the inner column; most likely from yanking on the steering wheel - so glad I am anal about using my steering wheel puller. There was enough left of the lower 2 nibs to at least resist further upward travel, though this would not have lasted long.
An interesting feature seen in pic 2, is that at some stage someone has drilled through the "outer inner", about 3mm into the "inner inner", and fitted a tiny roll pin. I doubt this was done at manufacture, but it's actually quite useful, because it serves as a witness mark to the orientation of each portion of the shaft, for reassembly.
Next step - and a big thank you to Gerry Masterson on the MGExp site - is to reproduce the original design using epoxy goop through the 2 holes on one side, round the waisted section and out the opposing hole. Remembering to slide the lower bush onto the shaft before joining the 2 halves together.
I should end up with a complete repair, preserving the telescoping function as originally designed. New bushes ordered, so will post result in a few days. Thanks as always for your comments.
John.






J P Hall

Upward or downward, one of the removal 'techniques' is to hammer the end of the shaft under the horn-push. But unless you wedge your knees tightly against the back of the wheel, as if you were trying to push it off that way, hammering by itself will only shear the pegs, it won't break the taper.

The other method is rocking the wheel i.e. push down hard on one side while pulling up on the other, then keep reversing. But the first time I needed to remove either my 73 or 75 (full energy absorbing) that did nothing at all, the knees and hammer trick were needed for both. Once removed that way further removals have been done with the rocking method, but it still takes quite some effort and perseverance.
paulh4

John,
(if it matters?) if you've not already done so you do need to check that the roll pin was put in with the two halves of the steering facing each other correctly and not 180 degrees out.

I had a very good steering wheeler damaged by using a puller.

Best method I've found and used is as Paul's first but more description in this John Twist, University Motors video '01 MG Steering Wheel Removal'. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwf2BDC5DMo
Nigel Atkins

He's right about the pencil going in sprung end first as otherwise it can contact the base of the switch in the horn push and sound the horn. I've heard some insist it should go in the other way round.

But it's not a 'brush' as he says, that's fixed to the column and rubs on a brass ring on the back of the wheel (71 on) as it is turned. It is a 'pencil', and just sits between the back of that brass ring and the 'live' part inside the switch, it doesn't rub on anything as a brush would. Some wheels e.g. my old motolita just have a piece of wire soldered to the back of the brass ring going to a stud on the horn push.






paulh4

I have tried our domestic suppliers without success; and I cannot find a UK supplier who has stock of the lower column bush MPB 1002, and who will post it to Australia. I did find one outfit in the UK which has the stock but doesn't send stuff overseas - WHY??
Having disassembled the entire column (inner) for repair, it would be opportune to put in a new bush, even though the old one is serviceable.
Has anyone here cobbled up a suitable bush from (eg) poly pipe, and wants to save me reinventing the wheel?
Thanks always. John.
J P Hall

Phone a Friend in the UK?
paulh4

There's one on ebay UK.

It's been listed at least five times with no bids.

I could buy it and post it to you, if the seller doesn't want to post internationally.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124419009005
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave, thanks for your kind offer - your post crossed with an email from a UK supplier who is quite happy to post, so I'm putting together an order. Otherwise I would certainly have taken you up!
Looking forward to reassembling the steering and using the B; early signs are that we're in for a hot summer here, so the Webasto will have to stay closed.
Yours, John.
J P Hall

The easy (and modern) fix is to swap the original column for a EPS system from Easysteer.co.uk, which is both collapsible and power assisted.
Dominic Clancy

Interesting, thanks Dominic - I hadn't seen their videos before; having just shelled out for stainless steel bumpers, eps will have to wait for now. Oh, and my dear wife is hinting that airconditioning in the BGT would be nice - now that will be expensive!
John.
J P Hall

Peter Allen, one of the causes of the small amount of movement you describe is the UJ spline not tight. Would be worth checking.
Paul Walbran

Also U-joint and rack wear.

By holding either side of the UJ with grips you should be able to work out where the play is. The U-joint bolts should take out all play in the splines there, if not something is wrong with one of the three components.
paulh4

Following my post on the 28th : I have injected 2-pack epoxy resin into the holes as described by Gerry Masterman, with complete success. I also replaced the little roll-pin, as I now think it might be original, having spotted the identical setup in a couple of other column photos on the web. The rollpin helped locate the 2 column halves accurately while injecting the epoxy goop. Column now reassembled, and should be back into position later today; I also took the steering rack out while I had the opportunity ("because I could"), flushed with kero and repack with moly/graphite grease, while waiting for new gaiters to arrive. It's a pain living so far from any suppliers - but we don't have covid!
Hope this helps anyone else with the telescoping steering column issue. John.
J P Hall

Well done.

Things might have improved or be different down your way but if you change gaiters hold on to your existing gaiters and keep an eye on the new ones.
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 27/10/2020 and 10/11/2020

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