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MG MGB Technical - Steering doesn't center after turn

Based on items I've read in the archive, it sounds like the steering on my 1980 MGB should self-center after a turn -- but it doesn't. The swivel axels turned freely when I had the tie-end rods off for replacement. I've checked the rack for oil and even drained it to check the bearing at the bottom of teh rack. Both seemed ok. I've installed new shocks and bushings. I've got new tires on the front with the proper inflation. Front-end Alignment seems ok in that it does not pull to either side.

I've only the car for only a few months, and the steering did not return to center before or after the work described above.

What else should I check?
D Emerson

It should self center as you suspect. You didn't mention if the three grease fittings on each swivel pin have been lubricated. If the car hasn't received routine lubrication the old grease can harden and make steering stiff. If the steering is too stiff it will not self center. Assuming you have lubricated the fittings, do they all take grease? When I bought my 74 it didn't steer very well and the fittings wouldn't accept grease. I disassembled the swivel pins and cleaned the old grease out to get the steering right. Toe in is the only thing that can be adjusted on the MGB, have you verified that toe in is correct? Does the car have stock wheels or wheels with a stock offset? I assume you have checked there is no visual indication of anything binding the tie rods when turning the steering from lock to lock. Good Luck, Clifton

Clifton Gordon

The simple answer is that whoever replaced the tierod end did not adjust the to-in properly. Without the 1/16" to 1/8" the steering wheel will not return to center
gerry masterman

All of the fittings take grease. However, when I first greased the swivel axels one lower fitting took several pumps of the gun before grease came out from the rubber gaskets. I'm not sure if it wasn't taking grease or if it just had not been greased for some time. The wheels are the stock rostyle wheels. Toe-in has not been checked - I'll find out how to do so and check it.
D Emerson

Since the swivel axels moved freely when the tie-rod ends were off, doesn't this remove the possibility of hardened grease being the problem??
D Emerson

If the steering rack has been removed from the front subframe, chech that the 2 shims that attach the rack to the front subframe are on the correct holes. Mine where on the botom bolts rather than the top which caused the steering to be stiff and not return. Remove them from the bottom and put them of the top if that's your problem and the rack will align with the steering shaft. If the shaft is not in alignment with the rack perfectly it will not return.


Also remove the 2 bolts that hold the cover plate on the steering box where the shaft meets the rack. Take care not to loose the shims and add oil to the box.

Andy
Andy Preston

Yes, free movement of the swivel pins should rule out hardened grease.

You can check your toe in with two jack stands and a roll of string using the rear wheels as a reference.
Tie the string around the top of one jack stand and place the jack stand behind the rear wheel with the center of the jack stand in line with the center of the tire. Place the second jack stand in front of the left tront wheel. Pull the string tight and tie it around the top of the jack stand in front of the car.
While keeping the string pulled tight move the front jack stand so the string just touches the front sidewall of the rear tire. The string should be in contact with the front tire sidewalls. You may have to gently move the steering wheel to get the front tire parallel with the string. Move the jack stands to the right side of the car and set up the string as you did on the left but DO NOT move the steering wheel. If you have toe in the string will touch the rear sidewall of the right front tire and there will be some space between the string and the front sidewall. This space is your toe in. It should be around 1/16" to 1/8" as Gerry mentioned. Adjust by loosening the tie rod jam nut and turning the tie rod to get the correct toe in.

This method assunes that your rear axle assembly is square with the car and your wheels are reasonably straight. It is not as accurate as an alignment machine but done carefully it is close enough for the MGB. You can also use two straight 1" X 4" boards, lay them against the front tire sidewalls and measure the distance between them at the rear and front of the wheels, the difference will be your approximate toe in. I know it's crude but this system is still frequently used race tracks for quick alignment checks. FWIW, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

I had the toe-in checked, and the tires were toed-out instead of in. Got it corrected within spec, and the steering is beter but it still does not return to the center position after turning.

Following Andy's suggestion, I'm checking the rack & column alignment. I found the "furniture leg cap" approach in the archives and plan on placing the caps on the shafts at the u-joint to check alignment. But, what's the best way to get the shafts out of the u-joint? The UJ bolts are out, but I don't have enough room to slide the shafts out. Do I have to drain the rack and slide the shaft out from the bottom of the rack?
D Emerson

Have you checked the U joint on the steering shaft? I have had, and have seen these cause the exact problem. They have no provision for greasing, and can freeze. Easy to check prior to dissassembing the entire rack.

HTH

Ron
RJS Smith

To remove the u joint, remove both bolts, apply some Kroil or penetrating oil of your choice, then tap the u joint down until it clears the steering shaft. Sometime they get rusted in place
gerry masterman

Does the steering move freely when the car is jacked up . If too many shims are removed from the steering box it wil bind .
DO NOT SLAM THE WHEELS AGAINST THE STOP WHILE THE CAR IS JACKED UP
S Best

I'm aligning the rack and steering column and have the two shafts aligned vertically. However, the horiztonal alignment is off. Based on what I've read, the steering column needs to moved for horizontal adjustment, but I'm not seeing how to do so. I'm loosened the 3 bolts that bolt the bottom of the column to the frame as well as the bolts under the steering wheel, but I'm not getting enoungh play to get the two shafts aligned.

Any help is appreciated....
D Emerson

Have you tried loosening the rack bolts to check how much movement is available there?
HTH,
Rufus
R Pool

I don't gain any horizontal play when I loosen the rack. The books I have as well as some archive articles state that the column must be adjusted to correct the horizontal alignment, but I don't see where the movement can come from since the three bolts at the base do not allow for any movement.
D Emerson

Is there any evidence of a prior accident? The shafts from the rack and steering coloum should basically be in line. Look at the inner fender wells and the frame rails If things are not smooth and rails have extra welding, it could be prior damage. These cars are old and most have a long past history. The steering should be smooth and self centering. I have had several, the shafts should be in line for the most part. The angle maybe off but that is the job of the U joint in the shaft. There is not much play in the rack mounts, a combination of the rack, and the cross member. Look at the frame in the area where the cross memeber attatches. If there is damage it will be seen here.

HTH

Ron
Ron Smith

Had the same problem as you. Steering would not self center even after new swivel axles and toe in adjustment. My rack pinion and steering column shaft were out of alignment, and I also could not get as much horizontal alignment as I needed for adjustment. I looked very hard for accident damage as well, but could find none. I took out a die grinder with a small carbide bit and made the lower column mounting holes a bit wider on one side. When that wasn't enough I did the same thing to the steering rack holes. I can assure you it is worth the effort to get that alignment perfect. My car is an absolute dream to drive now.
I'm willing to bet that there are a lot more MGB's out there like this and the owners just chalk up the experience to a lack of power steering.

Scott
Scott Wooley

It is surprisingly common for the rack mounting brackets to be displaced laterally due to side impact, as a curb hit, Equally easy to remove the rack and smack 'em back, one at a time, until the rack lines up with the column. Do the steering wheel side first, then the other until the rack bolts drop in freely. Not all cars have the shims for vertical adjustment, they are for adjustment after all.
FRM
http://www.usachoice.net/gofanu
FR Millmore

FR: Thanks for the feedback. The PO told me that one of the front fenders was replaced due to an accident, but I don't think the frame or cross member was damaged. I'll compare the position of the mounting brackets to another MG and see if they are off. I had not thought about the possibility of forcing the brackets to the needed position...
D Emerson

If you take the rack off, you can probably see the difference in the brackets, measure from similar points on the frame rails to confirm. As I said, do the steering wheel side first, then line up the other side. It's all pretty stiff when bolted together, but soggy when apart. I worried about the first one a lot longer than it took to fix!
FRM
http://www.usachoice.net/gofanu
FR Millmore

I'll second and third that vote for the Steering shaft u-joint. Also even if the U-joint is not failing, it is possible to assemble the thing so tightly..ie the shaft into and out of are under pressure..that it doesnt turn very freely. What I mean is that you can push the steering upper shaft and /or lower shaft into the u - joint so far that is causes a binding in the steering column. Loosen the joint and let the upper piece seek it's own lesser tightness.
G. Wayne Hardy

I have something that resembles what you are experiensing after a lowering of the front suspension.

Before the lowering, lower wishbones were paralell with the ground or pointing slightly downwards. After lowering they are pointing slightly upwards. I have always thought that this was the cause of the steering not selfcentering.

Erik/ RBī79
Erik

If you want your steering rack to center simply remove one of the shims in the steering box.
Paul Hanley

Collapse, however slight, of the x-member pads will also cause a mis-alignment of the steering. Replacement will correct some and use of urethane pads may require adjustment in the other direction.

Mike!
mike!

Mike: Thanks for the info. I know my cross memeber pads need to be replaced, so I may need to bump this up on the priority list.

Hopefully I'll be able to check into the pads and the brackets soon and provide some feedback. I've not had much time lately as we had hosted a family reunion on the 4th...
D Emerson

This thread was discussed between 26/06/2004 and 05/07/2004

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