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MG MGB Technical - Tie rod ends and steering probs

Hi Folks,
I am writing on behalf of a friend who has just had an extensive restoration done on a late model Mk1 MGB. The tie rod ends are bound up rock solid (they are new) and the only way to move them is with a spanner. I noticed yesterday that the ends are resting on the back plates of the disk. Is this normal or is there something wrong somewhere. I have an mga twin cam so have nothing to compare.
This checking of the front end all came about because the steering is not returning after going around a corner.
Makes me think that the steering geometry is not quite right. The cars drives and feels fine other than that.
Wheel alignment is OK, nothing showing up on the tyres.
Thanks in anticipation.

Steve in Australia.
s foster

That sounds wrong. The tie rod ends should be movable by hand and the levers that connect them to the hub should hold them about 1/2" away from the disc back plates. I can post a pic if you like, but not tonight!
Stan Best

Hi Stan
Thanks for your reply, a photo would be great(at your convenience).It may shed a little light on what is turning out to be a bit of a problem.
Regards,
Steve
s foster

I lied, the track rod ends are very close to the disc covers, but do not touch them, hope these help, let me know if yoiu need anything more.


Stan Best

same side


Stan Best

t'other side


Stan Best

and a GA one of the rack on the cross member. My car steers beautifully using this set up the rack is original having only a few shims out, the gaiters and track rod ends have been replaced once in it's lifetime.


Stan Best

Steve, There have been some complaints in the recent past about tie rod ends that are too large and are causing binding as you describe. I would encourage your friend to check with his supplier as they may have some new information relating to this problem. RAY
RAY

Hi Steve,

In relation to your other problem, the lack of self-centre action in the steering.
The self-centre action on all cars is caused by the castor angle of the front suspension. This is the angle on the upright when viewed from the side.
Unfortunately the MG Workshop Manuals do not give a specified castor angle, probably because there is no adjustment.
Can you compare it with your MGA Twin Cam? They should probably have the same angle.
Has the front end been in an accident and re-straightened?

I assume that you have turned the steering for the full travel with the wheels off the ground, and there is on binding off-centre?

Mick
Mick Anderson

I suppose that this self-centre steering and castor angle should be explained further.
The self-centre effect is because the axis of the stub axle is slightly behind the vertical axis of the steering pivot.
This is obtained by tilting the upright forward at the top (castor angle), or if the upright is vertical, having the stub axle axis slightly behind the vertical upright axis in the actual assembly itself.

This can be seen in action on the castor wheels fitted to furniture and supermarket trolleys (maybe not a good example, as they have excessive action making steering difficult).

Mick
Mick Anderson

Correction.
Tilting the upright backward at the top, forward at the bottom.


Mick
Mick Anderson

It appears that the caster angle for the MGB is 7 degrees.
However this can be reduced to about 2 degrees when using modern radial tyres.
This gives lighter steering bit still self-centres.

See image note.



Mick


Mick Anderson

The caster angle for the MGB can be set by using spacers between the front crossmember and the unit chassis, at the four mounting bolts.

See image.



Mick


Mick Anderson

Changing the castor angle by using spacers between the cross-member and the chassis rails means the steering rack has to be realigned with additional spacers. It is vitally important that this is done accurately or rapid wear of the UJ and pinion bearing will result.

In my experience new track-rod ends are very stiff, I'm not surprised you can only articulate them off-car (if that is what you are saying) with a spanner or grips.
Paul Hunt 2

The next three postings have images of a tool used to obtain steering column alignment on a MGA, and I assume the MGB is the same.
This proper alignment will eliminate the excessive wear on the pinion and the U-jount.

Mick


Mick Anderson

The second image.


Mick


Mick Anderson

The third image.


Mick


Mick Anderson

Those pictures are of an MGB, not an MGA, see http://www.asciimation.co.nz/pics/page8.html

However the dimensions given are *not* correct for other cars, it seems Simon Jansen has an oddball mix of column and rack on his car. Where he gives 29mm as the distance from the centre of the slot to the tip it seems to be 45mm on other CB cars including my own, and 33mm on RB (or at least it is on my RB V8).
Paul Hunt 2

To Stan, Ray, Mick, and Paul.
Thank you very much for shedding some light on my friends problem with the steering on his MGB. Hopefully this weekend we will be able to put all of the suggestions into practice and come up with a cure to the lousy steering.
Mick, great to see you at the MG National Meeting at Tamworth at easter.

Regards to all,
Steve
s foster

This thread was discussed between 20/04/2008 and 25/04/2008

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