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MG MGB Technical - Tool specifications

Anyone have a set of steering shaft alignment tools they can measure for me? (tool number 18G 1140) I need the dimensions.
Bruce-C

Bruce. Some more information for those of us who do not want to look up a specification number among a large amount of reference data?

Les
Les Bengtson

Bruce - I thought you had an early MGB. If so, you don't need the alignment tools. The way I read things, that is only needed for the collapsible column. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Bruce you have mail.
Henri
Henri Van Groningen

I was under impression they were needed for *all* steering shafts, the Workshop Manual includes alignment in the section on refitting the earlier column.

See here and scroll down about 2/3rds http://www.asciimation.co.nz/pics/page8.html

There is one dimension missing, I think, and that is the depth of the hole. It isn't critical (the position of the point is set by the notch and bolt) but it does need to be deep enough for the shaft to go in at least that far.
Paul Hunt 2

I was thinking of making one from a bit of inch square softwood. Mark the centre and drill right through with a small drill. Then drill the big hole. Saw and chisel a slot to sight the retaining bolt then use a cable tie in the slot to retain it. Make a pointer with an old nail or maybe a bit of rivet. It'll be a bodge, but it'll work. Especially now I have the dimensions!
Neil
Neil

My son is studying to be a machinist and has the ability to do independent projects. I received some very nice specifications for the pointers from Henri. He made a modification that makes it easy to put on and take off.

I am going to have the son make me a pair. If they turn out ok, I will have him turn out a number of pairs and let all here know.

These would be nice for clubs. I plan to add a pair to our club tool chest.

Dave

Got to tell you. My steering has actually been the only item on my 67 that I am not all that sure it is correct. We spent a day at a club workshop adjusting the shims and I still feel it is not as it should be.
We looked at the steering unit and it is good. We also checked the frame for straigness. I have to recheck the rebuilt front suspension to assure it is not to tight, but when I do that, I also want to use the pointers to make absolutly sure we have the steering correct.
Bruce-C

The steering on my '67 GT was tight after I rebuilt the front end. I had no idea the column needed to be aligned, and I had discarded the shims. Research indicated the need to align, so I set the column up by eye, adding shims until it looked right. This made an improvement, but it still was a little stiff, so I added more shims and disovered that made it worse.

I removed the latest shims to get back to my eyesight alignment. Knowing that sometimes things are aligned best with help from the things themselves, I fastened the rack not quite finger-tight and wiggled the steering wheel back and forth a few times before re-tightening the fasteners. This fixed it.

Evidently there is enough play in the fastening points to change the alignment from close to perfect, assuming you have the correct shims in place. -G.
Glenn G

Having spent an hour in the garage trying to make a set of pointers from the dimensions in Paul's links, I stopped to think what I was trying to achieve. I think I am trying to get the centrelines of the two shafts to cross, effectively in the middle of the spider. That's what it says in the link website too. But using a ruler with the UJ still on (so a bit rough), I reckon it to be 45mm from the centreline of the locating/clamp bolt to the centre line of the spider. That would make the 29mm in the picture a bit short!

Mine's a 1970 GT. I can see that the rubber bumper UJ 'looks' different, are the dimensions different?

Henri, would you be so kind as to e-mail me the dimensions you have? My address is:
neil AT port-z DOT fsnet DOT co DOT UK

Thanks in anticipation,

Neil
Neil

Bruce,
This is from a previous discussion - might be of some help.
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Posted 21 December 2005 at 22:18:24 UK time
Steve Buchina, Alabama, USA, sbakf@bellsouth.net

Does anyone have the spec's for one of these tools? Saw one on ebay recently (search Item number 8012743561), but it had already been sold. Looking at the pictures - doesn't seem that complicated. Thinking about having one made. Were steering shaft diameters all the same (say '65 on)? Final question, does one really need to use one of these tools in order to get proper steering alignment?
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 00:36:15 UK time
Chris at Octarine Services, Essex, United Kingdom, mail@octarine-services.co.uk; http://www.octarine-services.co.uk

Final answer - no.

Search the archives - it has been discussed before.
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 01:37:34 UK time
Simon Jansen, Auckland, New Zealand, jansens@asciimation.co.nz

I made my own. There are a couple of pictures here: http://www.asciimation.co.nz/pics/page5.html

None of that is really needed. I just like any excuse to get to use a lathe and mill.
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 06:15:28 UK time
Steve Buchina, Alabama, USA, sbakf@bellsouth.net

Simon,
Did you write down, happen to remember or could you measure for me the distance from the clamping hole to the tip (point)? One of my sons, who's home for Christmas, saw the picture of this tool hanging on my shop wall. He said, "I can make one of those if you need one." All he needs are the measurements. He wants to make it out of brass with a stainless point. I figure - sure. If I never use it - it sure would look pretty in my special tool drawer.
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 12:47:47 UK time
Frank, NC

I some thread I have read recently...Moss is in the process of having these made for sale...unfortunately I am sure it will be at a premium price.
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 13:29:09 UK time
Clifton Gordon, North Carolina, USA

Steve, I measured a Steering shaft and column from a chrome bumper car, the column was a collapsible type, 68-74. Measurements at the splines .750" diameter. Center of clamping bolt to end of steering shaft is about .725". The clamping area on the column shaft is a flat section for adjusting, the center of the flat area to the end of shaft is about .750". Allow a few thou for a decent fit. All chrome bumper cars should have the same dimensions, I'm not sure about rubber bumper cars.

The thread Frank mentioned is;
Thread: Aftermarket steering racks vs. OEM
It's near the bottom of this section.

Clifton
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 14:45:55 UK time
Paul Hunt 2, Solihull UK, paul.hunt1@blueyonder.co.uk http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk

Certainly on my RB V8 the UJ is replaced as a complete unit and does not have a replaceable spider and bearings as the CB roadster does, so the dimensions could well be different. But in both cases the centre of the spider is in the centre of the gap, which is where the two points must meet. In the past I've wrapped a bit of stiff copper wire round each shaft with its point the requisite distance from the end of the shaft, then tweaked radially to be in the centre of the shaft as judged by rotating it, then adjusting the column clamps and rack shims so the two meet.
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 16:17:46 UK time
Steve Buchina, Alabama, USA, sbakf@bellsouth.net

Thanks everyone,
Took measurement of steering shaft diameter on one of my 66 B's - as Clifton noted, measured 0.75 inch. Distance from center of clamping bolt groove (rounded not flat on mine) to end of steering shaft - measured 0.77 inch. I'm guessing that my son will also need to know how far the gauge point (cone) protrudes past the shaft end (i.e., to mimic distance from shaft end to center of universal joint). Not sure that this distance is that critical, but a quick measurement for the latter suggests a distance of 1 inch. I think I'll have my son make it with a brass set screw and a gauge length and bore depth deep enough to give at least 0.5 inch free-play either way. Does all of this seem correct?
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Posted 22 December 2005 at 18:14:39 UK time
Simon Jansen, Auckland, New Zealand, jansens@asciimation.co.nz

Sorry Steve, I didn't see this last night. When I get home tonight I can measure up mine. But basically the angle of the point and the length of the hole inside the tool don't matter at all. Just the distance from the locking bolt to the centre of the spider in the middle of the u-joint. If you have that you can measure it on there. On mine with the locking bolt though there wasn't any real movement of the tool or the u-joint up and down the shaft.

Paul's method really does work just as well though.
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Posted 28 December 2005 at 00:07:39 UK time
glg , Massachusetts, USA

Probably too late to mean anything:

I took two sharpened pencils and taped them to the top of both shafts -- from the rack and pinion and the steering wheel -- then made alignenment with the shims on the rack to frame.

Lacking a lathe, (just getting too old to begin building a machine shop) the pictures of the tool lead to the pencil idea.

Just passing on some personal experiences -- probably not woth much.

good luck.
Steve Buchina

Steve,

So in these threads Simon Jansen says that the critical diemsnion is from the centre of the locking bolt to the centre of the spider. The measurements suggest 3/4" from locking bolt groove to end of shaft, and another 1" to the intersection point. That ties up with my measurement of 45mm. So why does the drawing show 29mm???

Neil
Neil22

I'd never checked the measurements, just assumed they were right since someone had gone to the trouble of making the tool! On a V8 UJ (yokes and spider as an assembly), same part number as a 4-cylinder RB, it is more like 32 or 33mm between the centre of the bolt and the centre of the spider, so neither 29mm nor 45mm!.

I attach an image, don't forget parallax has 'moved' the zero line of the ruler to the left of the centre of the spider, it actually is over the centre, and the camera moved to be in line (more or less!) with the clamp bolt hole.


Paul Hunt 2

Thanks for taking the picture. As you say Paul, certainly not 29mm! Looking at the Moss catalogue, the RB UJ is certainly 'shorter' than the chrome bumper UJ. As I said, my measurement was a bit rough as I have not taken the UJ off yet, but it's certainly more than 32mm. When it's off I'll take a similar photograph.

In the picture though, the pointers line up... On a chrome bumper car, the position of the steering column itself is variable because the outer column is only clamped in place. So, you could get the two ends closer together such the tool would line up. But when you put the UJ on, the inner column would not sit back in the outer column in the same place.

Back to the drawing board.

Neil
Neil22

Sorry for chiming in late! Thanks Paul for emailing me. I went and found the tools and remeasured them and my u-joint and my measurements look right to me.

It's tricky measuring on the car but I have tried to attach a couple of pictures here. They don't show the best way to measure things but it was the best way to show the measurements if that makes sense. I do remember being very careful when measuring this up when everything was off the car. I will add the dimension of the depth of the hole and add a comment saying those measurements worked for me. I think if people make these themselves they need to match them to their car specifically. The holes on mine go in about 40mm (to the tapered point of the hole).

Perhaps there are different sized U-Joints around? Mine is a 78B that was originally US left hand drive and was converted over before got the car. Goodness only knows what parts they used!

To get things to line up I made sure the rack was bolted firmly in place with the cone points matching. Then you have to remove the steering column to get the cones off. When I reassembled I slid the column back onto the spider leaving the bolts loose enough that the column could move but not slip. By carefully sliding it into place I figured it would naturally adjust to the position with the least amount of sideways stress on it. I jiggled it about a bit then tightened everything up carefully so as not to move it's position.

Simon



Simon Jansen

And the picture of the cone itself. Again just trying to show what the measurement is (bit blurry sorry)!



Simon Jansen

Right.

CHROME bumper specifications follow...!

Distance from centreline of clamping bolt to centreline of spider = 1&3/4"

Distance from end of shaft to centreline of spider = 1".

These measurements seem quite precise.

So I made a Blue Peter tool, using an old cork, two barbecue skewers and some superglue. Not precision made, I'll agree. The pointers run true; the photo makes them look wonky! But it works, and the dimensions are correct... Note that the inner column does move in and out by a couple of inches (enough to get the UJ on and off at any rate).

I'm selling 'replica' tools at £25 plus a bottle of French red. And I get to drink the wine.

:-)

Neil




Neil22

... and yes, the sharp witted amongst you are right that it was SPANISH wine...

N
Neil22

Neil,
Sorry, I've been away from the computer since my last post - it's Sat. and my wife had a bunch of honey do's for me today. Glad you got the same measurements (i.e., 0.75" clamp bolt to shaft end and 1" shaft end to center of UJ).

I do like the corks and skewers - simplicity is beautiful, sometimes. A couple 1" roofing tacks passed through some of those self adhesive furniture pads (or 0.75" tube push-ons) might also be an option.

To update my older posting above - my son did make me some very nice pointers to align my steering shafts. He turned them out of 1.5" round stock (brass). He center bored them (0.75") to a depth such that once the shaft is bottomed out, the pointed tip (stainless steel) is 0.9" out on one and 1" out from the shaft's end for the other. Additionally, because we opted for a single set screw, the pointers can be easily adjusted out to the ideal distance of 1" (or more if necessary). I haven't had a chance to use them (yet), but I'm confident they will work well when the time comes.
Steve Buchina

Bruce,

I've got some forstner bits (flat bottom drills) and seriously considered making some pointers out of a carrot!

Neil
Neil

Wasn't there a song about 'flat bottom drills' ...
Paul Hunt 2

I attended the BMTA conference a couple of weeks ago where Moss was a vendor and they had the tool you are looking for.
Moss part # 453-622 cost $25.99.
JOHN

I have just bolted a new cross member to my car with my rebuilt suspension. I was just going to put the shims back where they were on the last crossmember and see if the steering was OK, but i really like the look of cork solution and might give that a go!

Iain
67 BGT
I D Cameron

Iain - you should definitely check the alignment properly with a new cross-member as the brackets are almost certainly going to be different. With misaligned shafts they would have to be *very* far out to feel anything, but even slight misalignment is enough to cause excessive wear and premature failure.
Paul Hunt 2

This thread was discussed between 16/01/2008 and 31/01/2008

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