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MG MGB Technical - Valve Tappets

I found a company in Turkey that makes chilled iron tappets for BMC engines. Their web site is;http://www.oygarsan.com/
If you click on mechanical tappets the first entry is a BMC 2A-13 tappet. It appears to be the same dimensions as the 18V tappets. See a picture at; http://www.oygarsan.com/katalog/tappcata/28.htm
They mention that the diameters given are approximate,
based on my recent experience we are getting tappets with approximate diameters.

I sent an email asking if their tappets are sold in the USA. I received the following reply from Mr. Ata KONGUOGLU

Dear Mr.GORDON,

Thank you for your kind interest to our company.
only 1 type of our tappets are sold in USA.
Did you check the dimensions of 2A-13 tappets
are OK and How many pieces do you need?

Best regards,
Ata KONGUOGLU

Can someone who knows a little about metalurgy comment on the use of chilled iron tappets with the commonly available MGB camshafts. Wonder if the quality is any good, I don't think Turkey can be called a high tech nation. I have a Cam Terminology printout from Web Cam that states chilled iron lifters are compatible with steel and hardface overlay cams only. I'll wait awhile before getting back to Mr. KONGUOGLU.

Thanks, Clifton

Clifton Gordon

Clifton - For some good answers to your questions about the tappets, call Delta Cams in Tacoma, WA 800-562-5500. The will also do a cobalt weld ont he cams, which give a super hard finish to the cams. They may even be able to tell you something about the turkish outfit. Let us know what you find out. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

2A13 tappets are the bucket B series ones to fit the MGB, also they fit the A series in midgets.

OE tappets were chilled cast iron - as are all currently manufactured ones that I know of.
Chris Betson

Chis. Thanks for your interesting comments. I noticed that Advanced Performance Technology Parts lists three different cam followers; http://www.aptfast.com/Main_Index_Page.htm
CF01 Cam Followers/Lifters, short, MGA & MGB for $5.48 each.
CF01-N Cam Followers/Lifters, short, MGA & MGB-Nitrided for $7.48 each.
CF02 Cam followers/Lifters, short, MGA & MGB chilled iron for $149 per set.

It makes one wonder why the high price on the chilled iron lifters if the stock replacement lifters are chilled iron.

I think I need to touch base with APTP to find what is different about thier chilled iron lifters

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Form a tribological viewpoint chilled cast iron and hardened steel is a good combination. The B & A series have iron tappets and steel cams, most modern engines like K series have them the other way round. You should not run steel on steel as this is likely to wear out very quickley.
Paul Hollingworth

Clifton, I don't know much about cams, but Isky does, and here's an excerpt from a 1983 catalog:

"Isky chilled iron solid lifters are compatable with our hardface overlay series cams only (not for cast billet type cams). Hardened by the chill-plate method which produces ideal surface grain structure, these Isky jewels are the only flat tappets that will survive in the grueling environment of today's funny car, fuel-dragster and competition engines."

I looked up MGA & MGB and Isky used to offer (may still) pt# SP-002 lightweight chilled iron racing lifters for 1500, 1600, 1622, and 1800 cc engines.
Glenn

Paul, Thanks for your input. Are the B & A tappets still chilled iron as Chris thinks? I started this thread because on my recently rebuilt engine for my 74 roadster I have some serious valve train nosie that is getting worse. The cam is a reground Crane and I don't know if it is iron or steel, I didn't realize I needed to know what it was made of. I have gone down to .012" clearance hot and it is still too noisy. The rocker shaft was reconditioned by someone in England and should be ok. British Automotive http://www.mgbmga.com/tech/index.html doesn't recommend Crane cams because of lifter/cam compatibility problems, I should have listened to them and trashed the cam rather than regrinding it.

Glenn, The Isky lifters are not available now. I understand they were phased out several years ago. Their information on chilled iron lifters is the same information I have read in several places.

Regards, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Clifton, given your Crane and noise, it would be interesting to see what a dial indicator says your cam lift is at the rockers. Any shiny oil at change?
vem myers

Vern, Nothing unusual in the oil. I did measure the valve lift and as I suspected I have some wear. The grind I have should have .376" intake lift and .380" exhaust lift. I checked with the dial indicator on the spring retainers trying to place the dial plunger at the same point on each retainer.

Ex. is #1 .342", #2 .364", #3 .362", #4 .376".
In. is #1 .350", #2 .354", #3 .342", #4 .364".

Not good numbers, so I have a winter project.

Clifton

Clifton Gordon

Clifton, how many miles are on the cam?

I'm just curious. I've had my MG 11 years, but only worked on it in spurts. This year I've been pretty dedicated (or stubborn) and have made a lot of progress. Point being, I've never been inside the engine further than adjusting the valves.

Do you guys use GM EOS or anything similar when breaking in a new cam? Chevy people swear by that stuff.
Glenn

Clifton. I wonder what they would have been if you had measured immediately after installing the cam? Right now, you are looking at tappet wear, cam lobe wear or inconsistantly machined cam lobes. We always make a big thing about "dialing in the cam", but no one ever mentions checking out the cam lobes to see if they are machined to approximately the same size. Interesting. Les
Les Bengtson

Glenn; I have about 3k miles on the cam since the engine was rebuilt and the cam reground. The cam was removed from my engine and reground at rebuild because it had two lobes with some wear. It was a Crane that was installed by some previous owner, it was probably installed in the mid 80's. It worked for 12 to 15 years before regrinding, however there were three or four pitted lifters when I disassembled the engine.
The old lifters were stock type lifters, I don't know if they were after market. I installed new lifters at rebuild. I replaced the head with a Mike Brown reworked head about 1200 miles after the rebuild and checked the lifters at that time and found three were pitted. I replaced them with new lifters. I used BlueRacer cam lube, a Crane Cams product, for assembly on all cam lobes and bearings and on crank and rod bearings. I used a paste type assembly lube on the lifters, CRC, Sta-Lube EP. GM EOS is as good as you can buy.

Les, I didn't record any figures for new cam lift, I looked at the lift on #1 intake and exhaust lobes when I dialed the cam in and as I recall they were good. When I replaced the head after rebuild I did measure and record the cam lift on 6 lobes, can't figure why I didn't record the others. They were as follows; #1 ex .263", #2 ex .263", in .262", #3 ex .263", #4 ex .263",in .263". Multiply by 1.42 rocker ratio and the valve lift was .372"-.373" at that time.

I did note that # exhaust is .003" more than my earlier reading. I don't know if rocker ratios are a little more than stated or maybe the dial caliper alignment was a little off on one of the readings. It isn't easy to be consistant because there isn't a good solid level plate to mount the magnetic base on the head.

Had I expected to have problems I would have taken and recorded more information.

Clifton



Clifton Gordon

Clifton:
Last fall I made a similar discovery on my car when measuring valve lift as you did. I started a thread on the subject and the concensus seemed to be that the problem was in an inconsistant shaping of the rocker arm pads at the valve end. I measured the cam lift at the pushrods and found those measurements to be consistant, so I guess the concensus was correct. You may be suffering from the same problem.
Marvin Deupree

Marvin, I almost used the pads but I elected to use the top of the valve spring retainer which should be a little more accurate? Before doing anything I will make some type of clamp to attach around the push rods and see if there is a difference when measuring at the push rods. Clifton
Clifton Gordon

They even do a set of hydraulic lifters for the Rover V8. Interesting.

Frank
Frank de Groot

Marvin, I made up a pedestal to attach to the push rods for the dial indicator plunger and rechecked. You are right, changing locations made a world of difference. My new readings range from a low of .259" on three push rods to a high of .262". These figures give valve lift from .368" to .372". All very close.
Thanks for reminding me of what I should have remembered, I just thought the spring retainers would be close enough to see if I have problem. Looks like the only problem have is a valve clatter I need to locate. I've made enough, too many, comments on this subject so this thread can retire. Lesson learned, don't always trust what you see the fisrt time you check. Thanks all for helping keep an old man honest. Cheers, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Clifton- I bought a Norwest "1/4" grind some years ago on a previous rebuild ( #3 I believe on the 1971) and the cam ate itself in 3 months. When I pulled the junker out, the lobes looked more round than not. Doug Jackson has some very interesting observations on the Crane at mgbmga@mindspring.com, and recommends a hardness test for every lifter, claiming in a lot of 50, 4 failed hardness. I'm told even the Piper will vary in hardness based on weather you are purchasing a regrind or fresh billet. Vic
vem myers

This thread was discussed between 19/08/2003 and 30/08/2003

MG MGB Technical index

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