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MG MGB Technical - What do you think (Long)
Need suggestions Back Ground on 1977 mgb roadster: I have had a MG that was given to me about 4-5 years ago. The back ground on this car is that my father bought it in 1987 drove if for a year then was PCS’d (military) over seas. Since our family was to big for the MG to be a family car it was driven to my grand mothers and park for the duration of tour (about 6 years). The car was parked in a field and not ran (people raided things off). Back in 1995 my father messed around and got the car running (by putting a Weber side draft carb and header due to the fact the original car had fell apart). The car was drove for about a week then he took the coil off to help someone get the car started. The car then was part for the next three years in a field. In 1998 I decided to take an auto body course that a local community college offered (it was a joke held at another school for juveniles with problems). My father gave me the car as a birthday present so I could work on it (for that class). Well I got the car the last week of class (well the class went like this you bring something to fix and the instructor would spent 5-10 mins with you trying to show you what to do). So I learned nothing in that class. Mean while I sanded down the hood front finder trunk lid trunk floor and primmer it. The car has sat like that for 2 years now getting a little bit of rust as it sit on the parts sanded down. I have not been able to get the car to run (wires cut here and their) so I am unsure of the wiring even being correct. At one point the car did start for a few seconds then I let off of the gas and the car cut off not to start again. After a year I kind of messed with the car and took the carb off and cleaned it out real good then put it back on the car (still no good). Condition of the Car: Wiring: Bad Carb: Questionable Engine: Unknown Bakes: Will not hold fluid (so unknown/bad) Head: Rebuilt in 1995 Hood: Needs replacing Trunk Lid: Needs replaced Trunk Floor: Needs replaced Sills: Have spot rust. Floor pans: Ok/Unknown Doors: Passenger side needs replaced (ripped and rusted). Battery: New Starter: Rebuilt. Other major items: Unknown condion. Plans for the car: Get new hood, trunk lid and trunk floor pan (have the floor pan welded in by local body shop). New sill and have them put in (not a big thing at this time). I also want to replace all of the bushings, and fix the brakes, fuel system and get a new fuel tank. I would also like to have the a new radiator or have the one that is in the car looked at by a radiator shop and brought up to speed. I would not mind having the engine gone through and rebuilt. Then rewire the car with a complete wiring kit. As for the car I was looking at a Weber downdraft and a crane ignition. That is what I would like to do to the car. Can anyone give me a guess as to how much of the cost of the above items? What are something’s that I could to myself to keep the cost down. I have some tools, air compressor, Haynes manual for the car. Another thing what is the min I could or should do to get this car running: Keep in mind I have a very tight budget meaning I would have to buy parts over time and do most of the work myself. I know some will say get rid of the car and get another that is better shape. Unfortunately this is probably as close as I will ever get to own another MG (wife). So what I have is what I am stuck with and I kind of attached since it is about the only thing my father has ever given me. Thanks for reading and any input on above subject. |
James |
>>>What do you think (Long) I think I'd give this about a D+ for grammar. |
E. B. White |
Mr. White would NEVER have been that cruel, "E.B." C'mon, the guy is trying to save a B... . . . Give him a break. Finely tuned language skills are not a prerequisite to LBC mechanics. |
Kim de Bourbon |
So now not only are people asses on this site, but they seem to be English professors as well. As for owning a MG sometime I wonder why I should share an enthusiasm for a car with such pompous asses. Here is my theory in life if you cannot help someone then just admit it, to insult someone because you think your better just makes you look like an ass. |
The G |
James~ That's an interesting story. I guess the basic decision you're trying to make is whether to keep the car or not. I suppose one way to decide is to try to list all the parts the car needs to be made back into a car, figure how much of the repair work you can do yourself and how much you'll have to hire out. If you totalled up all the time and money required, then multilied it by one-and-a-half or so, you'd be in the ball park. You'd also be too overwhelmed to continue. A different approach, and one it sounds like you're already thinking about, is the emotional attachment you have to the car. I have lots of stuff, including cars, that have no purpose in my possession other than I like having them around. It might be that way with your MG. In that case, if it took you ten or fifteen years to get it back on the road, it would be worth it. There's a small something special in driving around in your dad's old car. If you do start working on the car, it might be helpful to make a list, or plan of the work you want to do. Break it into small tasks and cross off each item as you finish it. This way you'll get a sense of accomplishment rather than having this unending project lurking in your garage for years on end. I find that if I do a little bit frequently, I'm more productive than if I try to do a lot suddenly. Small amounts of money, spent over time, are also easier to afford as you're on a budget. My thought on the sequence of working on any old car is to get the brakes and steering in perfect working first, then attend to the rest as needed. As far as the details and sequence of work, parts availability and sources and technical advice the people here can and will help you through the entire process. They'll enjoy it as much as you will. Be sure to let them know of your progress. Good Luck! |
Art Dodge |
James, GO FOR IT. I am in similar position in that I acquired a 72B (after a 30 year longing to own one) in June this year. The cars previous owner was a High school student (well accorind to paperworkj left in the car that is) and you can image the state of disrepair that the car is in. Engine would run kinda - certainly would not idle not matter how much time I spent playing with the carbs. No interior, ecept seats, left. Bent body panels ( somehow he bent the bumper overider and the peak near the drivers headlight but nothing in between). So far only a couple of spots of surface rust found ( on the bonnet and boot, oops my British is showing make that hood and trunk lids). I have spent just over $300 in the last month and that was just to get the engine to a state where it would run - I havent even looked at the total overhaul I can guarentee it needs. The point Im getting arpound to making is simple that is the MG is the car of your dreams (and mine is) the cost and time involved in bring one back from the car graveyard is irrelevant. Enjoy the time spent tinkering, spread the cost out of a few years (I have my rebuild planned so that I can do just that AND have the car on the road most of the time. I REPEAT GO FOR IT and have fun Simon |
Simon |
James: Art Dodge has given much sage advice. Buy a Haynes Manual, get the Moss Motors or Victoria British Catalog and estimate your potential investment. They list the prices of those things you asked about. Moss also has an on-line catalog. Your state may also require pollution emmissions testing, meaning that getting it to run may not be enough to keep on the road legally. The rubber bumper models are more complex than the earlier models and missing hoses, air pump and air injection rails removed, bad wiring, NAPA fuel pumps and other DPO fixes make putting it right all the more difficult. The mechanicals are the easy part. Body rust is the worst enemy of the MBG owner. If the trunk floor and doors are rusted the floor pans are probably worse. The MGB depends on the strength and integrity of the sills. Spot rust on the outside, or actual holes, may be the first sign of serious rust in this area, which is made of three panels. The inner panel, which you can not see, functions like a bridge truss. If this is bad theen body strength is threatened. Simple patch panel welding is not enough. Research the archives on this forum and you will see that it is a very involved process for most non professionals. Critically evaluate the body condition before dumping a ton of cash into making it run. Your car may be a labor of love, but frankly you can buy another one for much less than you will have to spend to fix this one, and enjoy driving it now. Keep your dad's car for parts. I have owned 50+ cars and I do not get very sentimental about any of them. They were (are) merely inanimate objects that exist for our fun. If your are not having fun, you will start to hate it. If you end up hating the car over a long and tortured restoration process, and ruin other relationships due to some single minded dedication to the project, then it definately is not worth it. Have fun! Regards, Andy |
Andrew Blackley |
James, ignore the blather of character assassination. The items you need to assess are, the cost of this restoration, and is it worth the effort. Obviouly, this car has "family value" and hey, why not learn to restore THIS car?? The skills you acquire from this experience will give you an idea as to whether or not you want to do another MG. You may want to restore an MG-A or a TF someday. You could spend time and $$ on far less worthy past times. The internet is a fantastic source of parts, technology, and guidance. Let us know, what you are going to do Cheers Gary |
gary n. hansen |
You appear to want to restore the car for sentimental reasons. I wouldnt calculate the costs now as it may tend to discourage you. Make a list of what needs to be done, system by system. Pick a point and start. Remember that used parts can be used in some areas to cut costs. I'd concentrate on getting the engine running (I feel better working on a car I know at least runs.) So you need to look at the wiring and carb situation first. Get a Haynes manual for MGB's and take advantage of the experience this BBS offers. Is there a MG or British car club in your area? Join up and you have another great resource for advise, help, and parts. |
william fox |
Scrap it and buy a cheap complete car that has far less work required. if its sentimentality that is the problem keep the vin plate and swap it to the new car. |
Bob |
I'd say go for it. I restored my father's 190SL over a period of 5 years. I just turned it into a family affair. Of course it was blind luck that I found it, after being lost for 15 years. The work's difficult, but by doing most, if not all yourself, it is worth the time and effort. I promise you'll not have time to get in trouble in bars or dance halls. My son and I built my MGB racer much the same way. Over a period of time with the cost spread over the entire project. Fix the brakes (seals and a rebuilt master), clean the carb well and reset the timing, and enjoy the out come. When you get it running, you can then start worrying about the body. Start with a MOSS catalogue, they have the best diagrams of what you see. BTW I teach English at one of the area Universities. Sounds like some of you folks need to bug off. |
George |
Hi James, First off, where are you exactly? I may have some parts for you if you're interested - I'm in Oak Park straight west and across the street from Chicago. Used body parts such as front fenders, trunk lids, and doors are a great way to save money and possibly work. Assuming they're OE, you know they fit what they came off of as well as anything you can buy new, probably better, and should fit as well on your car. Regarding your engine, I'd do a compression check and check oil pressure (once you get it to run for a little bit) to get a rough idea of its condition. If it's good enough, leave it alone and worry about the carb and other external bits that make it run right, as in the parts that are easiest to fix and have the most obvious impact on running. Electrical wise, get a new harness from British Wiring in Itasca(?) and start from scratch with putting the wiring in according to you Hayne's wiring diagram. Yes, I noticed you said you already have a Haynes book. The only problems I've ever had with MG wiring has been due to corroded connections (to be expected on a 30 yo car) and, mostly, due to previous owners messing with the wiring. I'd also start from scratch with the brakes, just for safety's sake. If need be, you may be able to find used drums. Unlike the engine, which I would let go until it NEEDED it as long as it will make the car go reasonably well and you other places to spend money, don't skimp on the brakes. When I did my car, I welded in new floors, rockers (all 4 pieces), jack points and crossmember outriggers, trunk floor, bugle sections, footwell repair, others, plus got new to me front fenders and doors. The sentimental attachment is that I have a car that I KNOW is rock solid and I built it. I guess I could have scrapped it and got another one, but a) then it would have cost more. Parts weren't so much (a hell of a lot less than a heritage shell!) and I don't charge myself for my time because I'm not selling the car, and I enjoy it. b) Rusty cars are a simple fact of life around here. In the Upper Midwest, nearly any car in unrestored condition that is 22 to 40 years old will have rust to some extent, and there aren't so many MGBs on the road anymore that we should toss one out if someone wants to restore it. And I've never been especially attached to any of my cars' VIN plates, I like the cars. c) A "better car" may very well have had rust on the inner sills and other interior surfaces of the rocker assembly, or in the panel joints. You can't see this, and while this is better condition than visibly rusty rockers, it sure isn't as good as new panels that have been welded together right and rustproofed. So, James, it sounds like your car isn't nearly as bad as mine was, and you're starting out with a reason to restore THAT car, so go for it! And be patient with it! Safety Fast, Wade |
Wade Keene |
James, Not matter what method you use to proceed there is one thing to always keep in mind: every minute you spend on the car is another minute closer to completing it. Take every job, no matter how small, start to finish & regard it as one more job done. Even if it takes you an hour & at the end all you have to show is a set of cleaned xyz's then that is one hour of labour & a job done. Looking at the car as a whole job will be daunting & you may be put off, or you may start with a flurry & quickly fade. If you can set yourself aside a specified amount of time EVERY day. Be it only an hour. Use the time however you wish. Make that hour yours ~ accept no calls, trivial disturbances, petty interuptions (other than, perhaps Mrs. offering/bringing you coffee/beverage of choice). An OH SO IMPORTANT ~ keep a log. Take copious detailed photographs & record everything you do/remove/clean/paint/etc. Do not throw ANYTHING away. It may not be salvageable but it may come in handy to compare to a new/used one to make sure it is the same. And last-but-not-least enjoy it. Some small words of advice from someone who is in the process of doing exactly what you are about to do. Keep us all posted. We love to help/commiserate with another MGophile. Regards, Graham |
Graham |
James, Being an old Shade Tree and ASE Master Tech, I can tell you first hand that restoring something that was in the family is a treasure (I honestly think that). I've had a plethora of "American Muscle" cars and have now obtained a 1980 MGB from my wife's father, it sat in a garage under boxxes and crates for well over 4 years and I've been scouring the helpful users here, various catalogs, and talking to every British Import Repair shop within 100 miles to get what i need to build it back to it's old glory. If you love cars, turning wrenches, and family hairlooms, then you have the best of all worlds. Give it a new life and enjoy it to the fullest. I am and no matter how long or how much it takes, to me as an auto enthusiast, it's MORE than worth it. :) Oh, and as far as grammar goes... Let Ye who hath not a mistake made be the first to cast a stone, otherwise Shut It !! Sincerely, D G Smith II |
D G Smith II |
I can honestly say I have a car that suffered a similar fate as yours. It was a '72 roadster (I often senilely misstate it as a '71). I went overseas and it sat in a field and got worse than it already was. I finally came home and decided to restore it. What did I do? I bugged the folks on here with my frequently asked questions and neglected the (finally garaged) car even more until I decided that it was really too far gone for a sane person to pump as much money into it as needed. I bought a '68 with less headaches attached to it. "Ol' Red" will stay in the family a few spare parts at a time, it seems. I've found a few metaphors (and quite a few expletives) for my old MGB. One is an onion. The more parts I peeled off the car, the more stuff I found wrong with it that was previously hidden. Eventually, I decided that my onion was too rotten. I found a new onion and started peeling it. It wasn't rotten. To sound a bit Zen-like, you only get out of a bucket, what was put into the bucket. You don't necessarily have to fill the bucket yourself, but it must be filled somehow. I felt that my '72 was a rusty bucket that would never hold anything in it for long. Rather than expensively patching it, I bought a better bucket. Kevin Smith (I hope this post passes grammar inspection) |
Kevin Smith |
James You have a huge project ahead of you but remember the 'RULE OF 3s'. It takes 3 times as long, costs 3 times as much and when you are finished, it is worth 1/3 of what you thought it would be. I spent an average of 52 hours per month for the past 18 doing a similar restoration and on my 4th tank of petrol. |
Jay |
James, it looks as though the BBS board has given you wise guidance. So, chum, what's the verdict?? Do you go for it or buy another MGB and use yours as a parts car?? We are on your side regardless!! Cheers mate, Gary P.S. Don't forget to throw you head back and laugh at this project as you go along. After all, it IS fun. |
gary n. hansen |
I agree completely with Andy! It's not that he's from ohio but HE UNDERSTANDS! I'm 2 years into the resto of my 72/73 B... It's a love hate relationship... Solid body except for floors (replaced) and some minor body dinks... I paid $1000 (us) for the car complete & lots of extras too... solid castle rails/sils & rockers well cared for... Good pressure It don't leak twixt #2 & #3! strong runner a car WORTH restoration TIME and money = (equate to) time AWAY from the wife and children.... Once the little lady ask's you "where 'ya gonna put the car seat" you're done! I't don't sound like a pleasant road your heading down I'm halfway down it and wish I woulda just drove her to the yard.... |
HowY |
This thread was discussed between 10/08/2002 and 12/08/2002
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