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MG MGB Technical - wire wheel convertion..

Recently i bought on the ebay a set of used wire wheels, and i would like to do the convertion on my 71B.
Question is, would it be a good ideia, and are they diferent hubs, front and rear, i heard there is long and short ones?
Alfredo
alfredo

I have a rostyle wheels..
Alf
alfredo

The rear axle housings are different lengths. The best way to convert to wire wheels is to change the entire rear axle.
Steve Simmons

Alfredo,

It exist modified rear hub that are shorter than regular ones and it is more easy than change whole rear axle.

Cheers,

JGC
Jean Guy Catford

I have wire wheels and there are a few things I would say:

- The hubs (front and rear) are list priced at $150 / each. That is $600. I think you can find new hubs for half that if you look around. Used hubs are a problem. A lot of them have worn splines, worn hubs are no good, they allow the wheel to cog (slip)

- Wire wheels are a dime a dozen, good ones are expensive or hard to find. A good wheel has several components - The center hub, has clean and crisp splines. Worn splines are a problem, same as above. Also watch the rims and how true they are. Bent rims and out of true wheels are difficult to retrue. The cost can exceed the cost of a new wheel.

- The standard wheel is a painted 60 spoke rim. There are also 72 spoke wheels. The more spokes the better. There are different sizes, 14X4.5 is standard while 14 X 5 or 5.5 is a little better. Some people use 15 X 5.5, and these were used on the MGC. In my mind I think this: painted 1)60 spokes 14 X 4.5 new $200, good used $100, bad used - worthless. 2)72 spokes 14 X 5 new $300, good used $150, bad used - worthless. Chrome ads $75 bucks to the new price. There are 2 (common) kinds India (Moss) and Dayton. Dayton is better.

- Balancing and mounting - You have to find a place to do it, and there are issues about tubes, etc. $100 for 4.

- The rear dif is different, Atleast $100 maybe $500.

SO, $300 for the hubs, $400-$1200 for the wheels, $100 to $500 for the dif is about $800 - $2000 for a "look". The wheels themselves are generally lower preformance. Why do you want to do this?
Frank Baker

You can buy special "changeover/adaptor" rear hubs that allow for the different axle widths and let you use wire wheels on your orrigional rostyle axle. I was quoted $120 Australian (apply exchange rate) for this 3 years ago. For the front just buy new hubs.
Peter

Peter, thats sound easier, where can i get them from?
alfredo

Keep in mind the adapters will increase wheel track by around 1".
Steve Simmons

I wonder where can i get these "changeover/adaptor" rear hubs ....my supliers only stock the plain hubs convertion.
alf
Alfredo

http://www.mgocaccessories.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_Accessories__Wire_Wheel_Conversions_185.html
michel

Alfredo,

As previously replied by Michel, MGOC sells them. These hubs were commonly used on TR's and need not the rear axle case swap at the expense of a reduced wheel track compared to this offered by the factory original equipement.
Renou

Lol, im totally the opposite, i want to convert my 71'B' from wire wheels to 4 stud so can have bigger alloys and also better handling for track days. how much are the 4stud hubs as ive not yet looked into this?

Chris
C.F. Capes

I put minilite reproductions (Mintex) on my racin' "B" Knock-on centers and all. 14"x5.5" and I run Kumho 205/55r-14 victoracers. It really needs the longer lower a-arms to take full advantage of the rubber. The spiders on the wheel are stronger than the wires so you can really hank down on the nut. No worries. If I had a v-8 I may stress a little but with the b-series there's no touble.



Mike!
mike!

Chris, if you do so i will be glad to buy from you the hubs,
alf
alfredo

I used conversion hubs but was then plagued with the left rear tyre fouling the arch. Harder springs (RB roadster on a CB) cured that, and gave an inch extra ride height which eliminated most of the grounding and bump-stop hitting that I was also getting, but made for a very choppy and unpleasant ride over some surfaces. Eventually I fitted a proper wire-wheel axle and went back to the correct (new) springs which stopped the fouling and the unpleasant ride, but brought the grounding back. So I cut'n'shut some rear shackles to give an extra inch or so and now everything is hunky-dory. Despite my tales of woe someone bought the conversion hubs off me, never heard how he got on with them.
Paul Hunt

As an aside to Paul Hunt's comments. I had been having problems with fouling on the nearside rear wheel arch following a wire wheel conversion by the PO. My car is a 1973 MGBGT by the way. A bit of an odd one here. I was contemplating going down the same route as Paul, but quite by chance I had a puncture on that wheel (chrome wires)and put on the spare which was a painted wire wheel, same wheel size though! The tyre was a Michelin MX 165R14 (which they unfortunately don't make any more!. Anyway the upshot of it was that the fouling disappeared and I am not sure why.Presumably either the wheel is slightly different in some way or the absolute bog standard tyre doesn't bulge out as much as modern 165/80 * 14 tyres, hence no fouling! If it is the tyre, then long term I have a decision to make as the nearest Michelin to this now appears to be the XAS 165HR14, but it is very expensive and would be a leap of faith to try it out! If anyone has any thoughts or experience on the above I'd be very interested to hear!
cheers
Paul Eades
Paul Eades

If one were to use the conversion rear hubs, is there any reason you cpildn't change the offset of the wheel by changing spoke length? I know we used to do this on our motorbiks- I don't see any reason it couldn't be done on an MGB wheel.
greg fast

Interesting, could be an odd wheel with a different offset (and as such if you could determine and obtain wheels with the required offset that would enable you to use conversion hubs but have the correct clearance). Drop a plumbline from the outside face of the wing and measure the distance from that to the rim and the sidewall on each. But as on mine it only fouled when cornering, not when travelling in a straight line it could just be that the sidewall is stiffer on the spare. Or a combination of any two ... or all three!
Paul Hunt

The problem with changing the dish (offset) on a wire wheel is that the more you move the rim from center, the weaker the wheel gets. The reason for this is that the two main sets of spokes (inside and outside) are only equal when the rim is centered. As you move the rim of center, the spokes on the side the wheel is moving toward get tighter while the opposite spokes get looser. The tighter set can only go so tight, so at a certain point you reach a real unbalance where the looser spokes are way too lose and the tighter spokes are at their useable limit.

The tighter spokes are now transmitting more shock into the rim than designed due to not only the added tension, but the more direct angle at which they point at the rim. On the opposite side of the wheel, you have spokes which are too loose to provide optimal support. The extreme angle of the tighter spokes offers no lateral support for the wheel so the looser spokes are taking up the slack. Problem is, their looseness is allowing them to flex more than normal and when added to the low tension, they will come out of balance and the wheel will go out of true.

That's the basics of it anyway.
Steve Simmons

Not sure I agree.

First, the spokes should remain equally tight. You loosen 1 set, and tighten the opposing one until tension is regained on the spoke loosened. This will cause fewer threads to engage in one set of spokes, and more on the other. There may come a point where too few threads are engaged on a spoke set- in that event, longer spokes would be required. The corresponding opposing spokes could bottom in the nipples, in which case shorter spokes would be required. If the inside spokes are loosened and the outer ones tightened, the rim will change offset.

I don't know where the idea is coming from that one the inboard spokes will run loose- the act of changing wheel offset causes any reduction in tension to be regained.

I'm unprepared to comment quantitatively on the effect of reduction in spoke angle resulting from revising the rim offset, but just scrating a couple of assumptions showed a 5.7 degree reduction in angle (from 28.5 to 22.8). Granted these were based on a couple of assumptions, and I havn't done any loadings, but if I were really interested (and I'm not, I dislike wire wheels) I'd be talking to a wire wheel manufacturer about outfitting hubs with 8gauge stainless spokes, just like we did when we ran 4" wide hoops on the 500cc motorcross bikes converted to road racers in the late 70's

greg fast

regarding my previous post, 2nd paragraph, " If the inside spokes are loosened and the outer ones tightened, the rim will change offset"

And if you loosen the outside spokes and tighten the inside spokes, the rim will also change offset, but this time in the direction that's desired.

Third Paragraph- " don't know where the idea is coming from that one the inboard spokes will run loose"- should read "don't know where the idea is coming from that the ooutboard spokes will run loose." Same deal, had my offsets backwards
gre fast

The one issue you aren't including in the equation is the change in angle to the rim versus tension required to pull the rim into position. A spoke at a steep angle to the rim will require a higher tension to pul the rim to point X over the hub than a spoke at a lower angle. If both sets of spokes were set to equal tension, the rim would center itself over a position which is calculated by (if I remember my formulas correctly) (Hub Center) - (Steep Angle / 2) + (Shallow Angle / 2). I have the feeling that equation is totally wrong but it's the basic idea. I'm just too lazy to look it up right now. Essentially the only time spoke tension is equal is when the rim is perfectly centered.
Steve Simmons

Alfredo, good luck to you in your quest to convert to wires. I have them on my midget and while they look nice, they absolutly stink in the upkeep dept. What with hubs and splines and spoke problems I'm looking forward to the day I'm rid of them.
J. T. White

Re: JT White's comments

I think JT's comments capture one of the problems. If you are interested in preformance, wire wheels are going to cost a lot more to get it. It can be done.

If it is the look you are after - hey, an MG with wire wheels is the "look" of the British sports car. I have the wire wheels and I feel that the cost is something I am willing to do (for the look), but it is an expensive look and the upkeep is a lot more.
F Murch

what surprises me is the fact the guy who first fit wires to the cars never realise after 40 or so years s many clever enginners doubt his skills, and yet most of them still enjoy the wire rides.i would say the users ratio is 2/1 concerning wire/steel wheels.
If i whant a rally or speedy car i would fit steel wheels, but for a nice afternoon journey to the seaside, i would prefer a wires, i love when the sunshines on them...my next winter job most probably is swap them to wires..
appreciate all your comments.
alfredo
alfredo

The trick is to use new, or nearly new, splines on new wheels. Do this and keep a light coat of grease on the splines, and your wheels /hubs should last as long as you do! My '65 B is still on the original hubs after 300,000 miles and they still look great. I only changed the wheels because I wanted to go 15". The old wheels still have excellent splines.
Steve Simmons

Why not just buy bolt on wire wheels from dayton, they look great and no problem swapping axles. Rick
RLH Rick

Hi, something I'd like to add is that there are two conical face sets; one at the inboard end of the splined hubs which mates with it's buddy the conical face you see in the wheel center when viewed from behind.
And.
The outer pair; one's on the outer end of the wheel center, the other inside the knock-off nut.

These are what the designers (Rudge/Whitworth) had in mind as the primary torque bearing 'lock' from brake or drive, to the wheel.

The splines are there as 'fail safe' to cope with the heavier loads.

So what?

Simply that the two sets of cones ought to be well cleaned and lightly greased every time the wheel is off.

This is almost universally ignored and is the primary cause of spline wear as they (the splines,) have become the only workers on the team. Not the 'fail-safe'!

Follow this little maintenance tip and you can forget about hub/spline wear.....No kidding.

Stewart



stewart

This thread was discussed between 30/05/2005 and 12/06/2005

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