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MG MGF Technical - Blown head gasket
|I have just had the head gasket go on my F. It was repaired in 2 working days along so I am happy with the service. What I am not happy about is that it went in the first place after 37,000 miles on a 3 year old (P Reg) car. The car appeard fine going to work but coming home the water temperature went off the scale and steam was coming out of the boot vents within 2-3 miles.|
The dealer said that there could be several reasons for it failing and did not know why it had failed in my case. They did change the cooling systems pressure cap as it is an old design and can apparently leak.
What are other peoples experiences of blown head gaskets, are they particularly common on cars of this age? Is there a general problem with this that MG are not owning up to and has anybody had any success in getting compensation for this fault on out of waranty cars?
Many thanks in advance,
Sorry to hear about your HGF, but sorry to say it is a common problem on the BBS. Your car infact seems to be quite high mileage. Mine went at 32000 but did have warranty.
Dirk has a history of number of HGF on his web page.
I am not sure wether rover pay up for cars out of warranty.
|Just one question-|
When did you last have a Service and was the coolant changed?
Sorry that two questionsb but related.
|Last service was 24,000 - I don't think that a coolant change is standard at that service (first is at 36 and then every 24?) so I guess it has never been changed (not sure on that though).|
Can you give me the name of Dirk's web sit - that should make interesting reading?
|Oh Dave, welcome 2 da klubb of the famous MGF HGF! You are number 126 of 'registered BBS head gasket failures'... :-|
Head gaskets are sadly indeed a pain in the a** on MGFs. My & my brother both have passed 65.000 miles and we both had already 2 headgaskets blown, about £500 each to fix. Officially there is of course no reason to worry, always our fault, but the Hall Of Shame proves that the official version is more or less bull ;-)
visit my site and get scared :p
your data still has to be completed (already listed) so feel free to send me the missing details
|If your's was a 1.8i Dave it's possible that the problem started with a failing seal between inlet manifold and head.|
If not caught quickly the subsequent coolant loss can lead to blown head gasket.
The problem will not affect vvcs - different manifolds.
My wife phoned me at 6.30 this evening - "I've got steam coming out the back". She looked underneath to find the dreaded green stuff dripping. My worst fears are that it is the head gasket. Having got the car home I jacked up the rear and looked with a torch. Sure enough their is more than a drip from the head gasket line with the engine running - dripping all over alternator etc.
This has happened on a VVC car registered on 2/1/97 and completed only 24,000 miles - never thrashed and
Question is - will Rover pay some/all of the cost?
Car is now 6 months out of warranty.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Steve & Carole Bowley
|Steve & Carole Bowley|
I would certainly try to get some contribution towards the cost of the work.
Dirks website should give you information to use as amunition.
BTW, my car still has the original coolant cap - despite the HG failing at 24,000 miles and having scheduled services which included a coolant change at 33,000. Should I be worried?
|I've had the coolant cap on my car replaced, but the new one (not so new now) still leaks. Is there any great significance in this alone? I mean should I be rushing out for another replacement, or is it just a case of needing to keep a closer eye on the coolant level due to an extra amount of loss via the cap?|
me too, my new coolant cap still leaks.
This W-E, I topped up the coolant bottle and it hasn't leaked so far. I wonder if the tightening torque of the cap has an influence ... (I remember I tightened it less hard than before)
|Steve& Carole, this type of failure you have experianced is common, the gasket above the alternator can blow out due to the very small surface area on the head between the water jacket and the outer face, some 5-6mm, this coupled with the deficencies (IMO) of the gasket materials causes the seal,which is bonded to the steel gasket, to blow out causing a massive water leak.We have available(from August 7th)a new gasket design which will help make this less of a problem, sorry we can't help with it at the moment!At a rough estimate it should take 6 hours to rectify,around £280.00 inc materials and labour.|
|As JT pointed out earlier this week a subtle change has occurred in the layout of the sealing material and the bonding agent used to affix this to the metal gasket. I can confirm this as I have has a new gasket delivered yesterday which has the same very minor changes.|
For those interested there are some very small reinforcing 'spars' of sealing material which appear to be designed to provide extra security for the sealing properties of the gasket. This is on the opposite side (inlet) to the failure point recorded here, but of note the gasket I have also shows an increased used of the bonding agent in several places again probably designed to help resist the failures reported on this BBS and elsewhere.
The part numbers remain the same as previous gaskets.
Incidentally I have a new gasket in preparation for an intended head removal to replace a standard head for a modified one. However with two 1.8i K engined cars it may be usefull to have a spare set of gaskets on hand!!
|Steve & Carole,|
Yes, I believe they should pay some - the whole HGF problem is starting to smell like an inherent design fault that Rover is trying to brush under the carpet (and at c£500 a pop I am not supprised, Oi, Vai! Business is business). I will be calling them now that I believe that it is not just bad luck (try 0800 620 820 - customer services) - I will post my findings once I have spoken to them)
Paul *2 + Fabrice,
Don't know about the cap - I guess a new one can't hurt (unless someone knows better) - I havn't looked at mine yet to play spot the diference.
£280 sounds good value - The dealer cost I have paid is £485 - Is that just for a head gasket? my repair replaced:
GRC1184 Pressure Cap
GUG704094MG Gasket - (what is this???)
GUG704430MG Gasket - Exh Manifold
GUG705074VC Cam Gasket
These are lifted directly from the invoice (replace head gasket and all other necessary gaskets) - A question, are these necessary, and more importantly, are they sufficient - should more be changed? - The garage never shewed me the failed gasket to see where the failure occurred and did not explain the cause of the failure. Could replacement of studs and nuts be because of a failure in onee of them due to under/over tightning? Also what is the difference between your gasket(s) and the official, high quality ;-) Rover parts?
|Dave - re the parts list, it looks fine to me.|
The studs and nuts look like those required for the upgrade fix to the inlet manifold fastenings to prevent the well know inlet manifold gasket problem on 1.8i's
(I assume you have a 1.8i)
The modest dealer price does not suggest that the head underwent any pressure testing and possible skimming - which is what I'd have reccommended.
Queen "Another One Bites The Dust"
|a, 7*FX108047 Nuts - inlet manifold to head nuts|
b, 7*TE108065M Studs - Studs for above
c, GRC1184 Pressure Cap - GRC 184 expan tank cap??
d, GUG702576HG Gasket-Cylinder - head gasket
e, GUG704094MG Gasket - ?? not listed on my 1999 MGF or R200 parts slides, however GUG 704052MG is the inlet manifold gasket seal listed for both which may again have been superceded - worth checking if it has.
f, GUG704430MG Gasket - Exh Manifold - correct
g, GUG705074VC Cam Gasket - cam cover
The earlier (pre 1999) inlet manifold gasket is a moulded rubber type of seal that fits into a recess in the plastic inlet manifold. There is a history of these earlier seals hardening and leaking with use and gae, although this doesn't affect all engines. The later seal is green (subject to that comment I have made above re the part numbers) and is replaced along with the studs and nuts, which hold the inlet manifold to the head, as a complete job as JT says. (It is listed in a service bulletin for this to be done this way)
The need for skimming is a last resort to keep serviceability on an otherwise scrap head, then just 20 thou is permitted, although some manage to do more. Often heavily skimmed heads have some problems with detonating on standard unleaded afterwards due to raised compression and/or too many rough and exposed edges not cleaned off after skimming, glowing red hot and causing detonation. Another effect of head skimming is that it causes retarded cam timing. All good reasons for not skimming unless it is absolutely necessary.
The whole issue around skimming is whether the head has a flat face. This is very simple to check with a straight edge over a number of different directions to cover the whole surface and all directions. If it is flat then there simply isn't a problem and the head can go straight back on with confidence.
Writing this listening to Queen 'Who wants to live forever?'!!
There is no bonding agent on the HG, what you spot is flash from the moulding process which varies a little. As far as I remember the little spars have always been there. Any concerns on the bonding of the elastomeric tracks should be dispelled. The track is moulded directly onto the stainless steel after very careful cleaning process. The product is only handled by robots during transfer. Once the gasket is clamped in situe, this holds the track in place. The clamping of the track between the head and block is controlled by the compression limiters either end of the gasket. Under normal running conditions, there should be no further problems. However, if overheating occurs, the material takes a compression set (showing the impression of collapse or even melting). This is usually more obvious at the exhaust side of the head due to this being the hottest area. The gasket then leaks making the problem worse. IMO head gasket failures are the symptom of overheating - not the cause. It would seem however that this design of gasket is less robust than others under overheat conditions. Overheating is complex problem to resolve (which I have discussed in previous thread) due to the many components interacting to result in overheating - the head gasket is if you like the safety valve. (many of these comments can also relate to the 1.8i inlet manifold gasket)
| Dave - An update - yes it is the HG. Spoke to Rover on the helpline first who took all the details including where the car was going to be fixed. Dunham in Luton now have the car (very prompt service) and we have been quoted £410 all inclusive and Dunham will put in a claim to Rover. Will let you know the outcome. |
Mike - thanks for the comments alas too late for us but good luck with the new product.
Steve & Carole Bowley
|Steve & Carole Bowley|
Thanks for the more detailed knowledge in respect of production methods used for these gaskets. My description is a loose decription since I did not know what materials are used or the methoid of fixing. However your conclusion of the gasket failing being a symptom of another failure rather than a gasket defect. For some time I have believed the gasket failing was a display of a cooling issue.
|Which brings us back to the old question - how do we keep the engine cool, or rather from over heating.|
|Daft idead of the day: Will a more powerful fan in the engine bay be of any use to keep down the engine temp?|
|David Lamas Loureiro|
|David,not a daft idea, been looking at that very idea myself!(a la Porsche911)|
|Indeed not a daft idea. The engine bay temperature is an ongoing area of some detailed examination of mine and I have a couple of modifications in situ to try and reduce the underbonnet temps. |
The recent thread on engine bay temp covered many ideas and theories and makes for interesting reading. I still suspect that spot temps around the engine are running higher for the 1.8 engine in the F chassis than in the equivalent FWD applications running these engines. The difference , if it exists, may be one small reason to help explain the apparent higher incidence of problems with the F application. I have now access to an accurate enough temp probe to be able to progress a number of ideas, and do a number of tests to see if theory is reflected in practice.
I'm sure that if you can keep the engine bay temps down with your fan, you will have many prospective buyers (including myself).
|David Lamas Loureiro|
|OK.. so we want more airflow through the engine bay to improve the cooling.|
We can either:
blow air in with a fan (from the sides)
direct air up from underneath with a scoop/wing/.. a la MR2
How about "sucking" the air out with some form of venturi with on or in the bootlid.
Has anyone looked at the aerodynamics of the bootlid with the hood up and down? Is the problem that the (hot) air can't get "out" because of the pressure of the airflow over the bootlid?
Could a small "spoiler" in front of the bootlid grill "suck" the air out more effectively (not being an aero engineer, myself!).
|Don't even think about trying to suck the hot air out with a fan. Much more effective to blow in cold air, mainly due to density considerations..|
Why not fit a 82 deg.C thermostat next time some job is done that includes emptying / refilling the cooling system ? After all first K-series was happy with 82 deg. The race for higher and higher cooling temps is because every year there is a needed (small) gain in cleaner exthaust gasses. And remember that the thermostat on the "F" is on the INLET to engine block! Even more important to keep coolant temp at safe level...
Regards , Carl.
Changing your thermo for a lower setting is most inlikely to help. In overheat conditions the thermostat is bang open anyway - it's there to speed warm up.In fact you may do more harm than good as a speedy warm up reduces engine wear. The only benefit is that the thermostat may be faulty ie staying closed or not opening fully. If the engine has overheated, then the thermo may have been damaged by this so I would always suggest changing this during any overheating repair!
Sorry Terry but totally dissagree with You on this one. The reason for that is as follows:
1. The heat transfer from engine block to coolant takes place AFTER thermostat , letting in 82-84 deg. coolant instead of 92-94 deg. helps a lot. Specially to keep hotspots and boiling down in block area.
2. If as You say thermostat is already fully open and "out of control" this must be due to front radiator not up to the job. After all coolant that enters block via thermostat comes from radiator OUTLET.
3. Warming up ,ie. start from cold is NOT affected by changing temp. on thermostat. Time /temp. scale will be the same as with old thermostate all the way up to opening temp !
4. Did change to old original K-series 82deg.C thermostat when coolant change was due last September.
So far I have noticed lower operating temps over all , less "mist" from engine bay after hard track runs and don´t regret the change at all.
Regards , Carl.
|this weekend had to think 3 times of head gasket worries:|
1) guy with a BMW 528 (not the latest model), 190,000 kms troublefree on the clock, follows us in the city, all of a sudden he shuts down engine, restarts and goes on. Next crossroads, he does it again. After 2 minutes we arrive where we have to be: ask guy what's wrong: sudden overheating. No smoke, no leaks, but you heard the sound over boiling coolant from expansion reservoir... No help cooling down the car, restarted within a minute. Purging didn't help either. Towed by BMW.
Ahum, the famous 5 series...
2) drove with a friend with a Golf VR6, he drove for 3 hours nonstop at 200+ km/h, about 5000rpm. Oiltemp never got hotter than 100°, coolant gauge always stayed in middle. WOW! if I could do that with an MGF!
3) same friend admitted his dad's Carrera 996 cabrio its whole engine was replaced FOC by Porsche after 13K miles during routine maintenance because of 'a potential problem'... ahum, even Porsche...
Anyway, MGF engine runs clearly too hot. Lately I noticed that my heating inside the car on max is REALLY REALLY HOT, and heats up really fast too, although temp gauges all are normal. Should I be worried?
I am not sure what you are trying to say.
As Terry says the thermostat only controls the water up to the point that it is at its operating temperature, that is it recirculates the water around the engine until the set degrees are reached then the thermostat opens allowing the water to fully circulate and be cooled.
I can not see the thermostat having any influence after the engine is at operating temperature unless, of course, the thermostat is faulty.
Ted, that would mean that the cooling system was unable to cool the engine below 92 deg C! The 'operating temperature' of the engine is set by the thermostat, not some inherent characteristic of the engine, and the thermostat is not fully open all the time. As long as the radiator is up to the job (and I believe it is) then the 82 deg thermostat opens earlier and maintains the coolant temp in the engine at 82 deg (more or less). Terry is talking about the engine overheating, in which case the thermostat rating is irrelevant as it is indeed fully open.
I promise you I have drivern my F for 3 hours at 5,000 revs, only problem was it did not deliver 200kph....
Glad to see you are still Fing around!
|I agree with you what both say, however what I think Terry is saying and what I believe is that the engine, under normal circumstances is not going to drop below the thermostat setting of 92c (or whatever) and this presumably is the temperature that Rover feel is correct for the *F*.|
The thermostat is there to keep the water within the engine circulation area until it reaches this operating temperature so enabling the engine to quickly reach the desired temperature.
I do not know if this has any bearing on the HGFs or not, I just feel that is more likely due to problems with the long plumbing runs and airlocks.
Guess all contributors got a point here but what I was aiming at was ; In fitting a thermostate (82 deg.C) that obviously was fitted to the first series of K-engines before the race for minimum CO and NOX -gases I would keep the heat on engine (and related surrounding components) down . This seems to happen too, only thing is that I was expecting oil temp to drop considerably more than it does after the change. This belives me to think that oil-temp lives it´s own life ,not that much influenced by coolant temp. This can most clearly be seen in the sudden increase in oil temp when overtaking several lorries etc. for some miles in 3 or 4 gear and then slowing down to normal motorway speed. So for getting the oil-temp down further measures like an oil-cooler is needed..
Anyway , my F runs as stated in previous thread cooler now and stresses to seals and electronics hopefully will be lower without any added engine wear.
Regards , Carl.
|Well that got you all talking, thanks for taking my side Ted.|
The thermo does not "control" the engine temperature apart from ensuring that coolant is not passed to the radiator until it's opening temperature. After this the coolant temperature may (and will) go over the thermostat operating temp. Then the rad fan kicks in. Running coolant temperature will depend, for example, on engine power demand (the old right foot), water pump speed, and ambient temperature (changes the heat transfer rate of rad) plus of course engine bay temperature. All of which is not the whole story for overheating.
The reason Carl's F runs cooler now is probably due to the old thermo opening far too late (or not at all, or partially) due to a fault! Otherwise changing the thermo may have resulted in a better air lock bleed.
|>>2) drove with a friend with a Golf VR6, he drove for 3 hours nonstop at 200+ km/h, about 5000rpm. Oiltemp never got hotter than 100°, coolant gauge always stayed in middle. WOW! if I could do that with an MGF!<<|
So the indicator on the coolant gauge was malfunctioning ;-)
Just for info,
The thermostat in any car does control the water temp. It is the most basic example of a closed loop control system.
Every thermostat will have a range of operation. ie begins to open at X deg, fully open at Y deg.
The Workshop manual states begins to open (X) at 86-90, and fully open at 102 (Y)
Coolant temp in engine circuit < X (be that 82 or 92) then thermo is closed, and water circulated around engine only.
Coolant temp in engine circuit > X but < Y thermostat in "control". Passing a proportion of the water from the radiator circuit (and so allowing flow around that circuit) into the engine circuit.
Coolant temp > Y thermostat will be fully open and all water will circulate thru engine then to radiator.
In theory, as Kes states, the thermostat will usually be in the "control" range, as the radiator will be easily able to cool the water allowed to flow from it sufficiently that, when it returns to the engine circuit, it mixes with the non cooled water.
If the amount of water passed through the rad is too great, then, on returning and mixing with recirc, it will arrive at the thermostat, which, on measuring the temp of it, will close slightly. Thus the control "loop" is maintained.
Technically, whilst moving, the thermostat will never be fully open, the temperature of the engine will be being cointrolled by the thermostat to between X and Y (86 - 102) (there being a sufficient flow of air across the radiator to fully cool the water in that circuit)
When stationary, it is possible that, due to no air flow over the radiator, the water in the radiator loop is not cooled sufficiently. The thermostat will continue to open until the temp. reaches Y (102). It will now be fully open.
Now the engine cooling system temp is controlled by the radiator fan. The EMS signals the fan to kick in (set to start at 102 and shut off at 96) and blow air across the fins to cool the water passing through the rad.
Loads of factors will alter how much energy the cooling system has to get rid of, (as Terry says) foot down, long decel, heater on/off, going up hill, high electrical loads etc etc, but these do not actually "control" the water temp, merely have an effect on it, which the thermostat will react to.
Fitting an earlier opening thermostat will set an engines baseline operating water temp to that temp. However, when stationary, its all academic as its the fan kick in temp which counts. I guess the way to get a lower operating temp overall is to fit a lower operating temp thermostat, and "adjust" the ECM to kick in and cut out at a lower range.
|Interesting that my Elise, with the same engine as my old F, generally runs a lot cooler.|
|I really want to own an MGF...and I can nearly afford one! The information on this site is outstanding and its great to think there are people who do give a monkey's about other people and their cherished sports cars. |
But perhaps everyone's being too helpful!
You see I keep reading these things about blown head gaskets..and, to be honest, It's putting me off buying the car I have drooled over since I first saw it. I don't want to drive a Mazda and I know for a fact that God has a BRG VVC.
Please tell me it's ok to by an MGF and that it ain't gonna let me down.
I happened to have just purchased MGF BRG VVC last Feb. (second hand done 9700km)
I didn't know if this kind of BBS actually existed before I bought it. I liked it for its looks and its performance (not upto turbo charged Subarus, but we don't just go for straight 0-100kms all the time). I didn't want to buy a jap car for my first car, and I really wanted to go for something european. And I am quite satisfied with it so far.
Problems I have faced,
1. Leak = kinda fixed with new windows stop and adjustment.
2. Oil leak = this was fixed in 3 mins, just by tightening the CAM cover. Haven't leaked an oil since April. Not even a drop
Those are the only 2 I have faced. I did some modifications myself, like.. shortening the gearstick which is highly recommended. I love it. and installed K&N 57i kit. Also put Castrol SLX Full-synthetic oil in it. (changed headunit and did lots of other little gadgety stuff)
Simply put, this is the first car that I can use it as both fun wise and other daily uses like traveling. I look good driving it, and I can possibly take it for a north island tour hopefully at the end of this year. (Hey I live in New Zealand).
I quite liked an Elise as well, but firstly I was short of money, and secondly I was quite disappointed at the interior of the car (it has nothing to reduce the weight). I don't think I can use it for travelling.
One lasting I can say is that, this is the car that I get excited all over the place whenever I sit in the drivers seat. It's been full 6 months that I had it for and it's still as exciting as before!!!
Take it for a test drive, and You will BUY it. That's all I can say.
|Maybe we should all be moving over to the competition head gasket as advertised in Mike Saturs latest products page ...|
(HGF @ 43K)
Thanks for you advice! Glad to here that you love your MGF.
I agree about the lotus, too expensive and even more impractical than the Polo G40 I used to drive, (not that the G40 is a bad car, it just had emense difficulty with boring stuff like breaking and resisting supercharger blow ups!).
As you can see I'm a tad twitchy about anything that involves a greater than 50% chance of blowing up.
This aint going to be an easy decision, my heart keeps shouting MGF,the Car magazines keep offering the MX5 messianic status whilst my 70 year old father, (who once owned an MG),informs me that an MGF is a woman's car.
I want to feel confident my MGF is reliable as well as fun!
|Maybe the MX-5 is not as reliable as you may think. My boss has one, and he has had nothing but hassle with it, admittedly nothing really major but it is in and out of the garage all the time. Anyway, if anything, the MX-5 has more of a 'hairdressers car' reputation than the 'F'. I am not slagging them off cause they are fun to drive, but so is the 'F' plus you get a more comfortable ride. I have had my Abingdon (MGF limited edition) for 2 months now, and so far everything is hunky dorey, it still puts a smile on my face when I drive it.|
|Any car could break down|
It ain't the badge on the car that's important - it's the attitude of the dealer. Having said that, the MGF does need an understanding dealer, whereas the MX-5 could be fixed by any decent garage (so not my local mazda dealer then)
It doesn't matter what the magazines like - they're out to sell their own product, and I can't comprehend statements like - "it's a woman's car", or ... "a hairdressers car", other than assume it's a prejudice of theirs.
So, if you have a good MG dealer, get the MGF; else the MX-5. In any case, get a drive a both.
|Buy an MGF Paul, we all love 'em, and I have no plans to dispose of my 4.5 year old example any time yet!|
Regarding HGF, reading through this thread, and knowledge of others, we all seem to think that heat build up is the primary cause of HGF. HGF is not the diagnosis of the problem, rather a symptom.
As far as I recall, no one ever reports that water coolant temperature is anything but normal until the time of the failure. No one seems to recall oil temp. Assuming that the failure is usualy unheralded, it would suggest very localised heat build up, away from the temperature sensors recording these parameters.
Second point is engine temperatures in the MGF. Dirk is, I think, spot on in his observation that the MGF's K-series does indeed run relatively hot, even though water coolant temperatures appear normal. A spirited drive can frequently see oil temperatures reach and sometimes even exceed 120 celcius, whereas percieved wisdom implies that oil temperatures of 100 celcius or more is BAD for longevity of the engine and HGs.
So I wonder if we have a two fold aetiology of the HGF problem. An engine that runs often very high oil temperatures, and the potential for localised over heating. The latter could easily be exacerbated by air locks in a cooling system that is notoriously difficult to bleed, or by the introduction of air by a leaking cooling system.
Therefore, there appears to be two potential solutions.
1. Fit a thermostatically controlled oil cooler (Techspeed do a very effective conversion for MGFs)- a particularly sensible precaution if you frequently see high oil temperatures when driving your F (everyone's driving style varies, so this may not necessarily apply to everyone)
2. Ensure that the cooling system is in good order, and adequately bleed.
Unfortunately, the number of cars fitted with oil coolers is small, so we may never know whether this is the most appropriate course of action from the relative numbers of HGF between oil cooled cars and those that are not.
|To add to Robs observations I am certain that the fact the MGF K series engine has been expanded internally from 1400cc originally (I think) to 1800cc today means that valuable 'mating surface area' has been sacrificed in the quest for extra power.|
However having said that and what Rob has said does not change the fact that many *F*s do not suffer from HGF (cue Dirk). Mine like Robs is 4.5 years old and (touch wood) has not had any major problems.
Just go out and buy one and enjoy it!
|Chris, Steve, Rob and Ted,|
Thank you for your encouragement. Interesting to read about oil temps. Being an 'enthusiastic' driver I would hate to think my future MGF would bare a deep seated resentment against my addiction to hard acceleration! But the thought of that engine sitting behind me...(something a bit freudian in this but it does it for me.)
I agree about the importance of understanding dealers. All the cars I have driven have been cared for by Ian and Anthony at Parkhill Garage, Rainhill.This is because they have never let me down in 13 years of 'negligent' motoring and I trust them implicitly. Anthony likes the MGF,(incidently he now drives my old G40)and reckons they are 'ok' to work on. He asked his mate, who owns an MGF, about HGF he said had encountered no problems and was impressed by the car so far.
Thanks again. I'll let you know how I get on as I plunge into the second hand car market. All I've got to do is find the money and sell my 106 Ralle, (which, by the way, is one of the best handling cars I've ever blown up!)
Back to the land of dreams...
This thread was discussed between 17/07/2000 and 02/08/2000
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