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MG MGF Technical - Brake discs and brake pads

Thanks to Mike P, I now know which are the best pads for the MGF, and by a staggeringly large margin. But I guess all you chaps with Mintex 1177s knew that already!

Yup, the Mintex 1177 is categorically the superior brake pad; Mike's car had phenomenal bite from the pads on standard discs (but are grooved to prevent glazing), and the retardation was excellent. I'd say about twice as good as EBC green stuff pads, which themselves are a very useful improvement over the standard fare.

Two problems with these metallo-matrix pads:
1. Squeal under mild brake loads- probably could live with that for the improved brake performance
2. Apparently increased disc wear (although Mike and Paul's discs appear to be holding up well).

Which lead me to Halfords to find out how much their discs were. I was expected good things after someone here reported that the discs were very cheap- around 20 quid... But no! Halfords retail them for 29.99 each.

Not such a good deal after all then :o(

Anyone know where to get the best value brake discs? Are ordering Maestro items (the same as ours remember) going to be cheaper???

Cheers

Rob
Rob Bell

Hi Rob !

So, Mintex 1177's are better than Green Stuff ?
Good news for me as i've been unsuccessful so far to find a Green Stuff supplier in Belgium.
Do you know if the Mintex, as the EBC, don't produce brake dust that sticks to alloys ?
BTW, are you sure that the braking performance you noticed on Mike's car is only attibutable to the pads, not to brake fluid, hoses, ... ?

I found this on Mintex website :"The first material M1144 is mainly used for fast road use and is primarily targeted at hot hatch drivers. The other three materials M1155, M1166 and M1177 are specifically for circuit and rally competition use only."
So, shouldn't compare the Green Stuff to 1144 ? I recall that there are also in the EBC range pads that are targeted to competition use (Red Stuff, ...)

What are the downsides of fitting competition pads to a road car ? A too high optimum temperature, hard to reach in normal use (city driving, ...) ? Are they eating discs much faster ?

Regards,
Fabrice
Fabrice

The Mintex pads are certainly considerably more abrasive than fast road pads, that is true. This is why I am intersted to discover how much replacement discs cost- not that mine will need replacing for some considerable time yet. I suspect replacements would be needed rather more frequently.

Other down sides?

They work too well! I'd probably become worried that dozy drivers would pile into the back of me every time I applied the brakes! They work from cold too- fabulously- but get better when hot which must be mind blowing. The main problem with such sharp brakes is the propensity to lock up- one would have to get skilled in cadence braking!!! Seriously though, I don't see that as a problem.
They cost twice as much as the EBC Greens- but 88 quid is not too excessive IMO for a pair of pads.

Availability may be a problem though- I think that they are a Rover Sport item? Does anyone know the answer to this one? It may mean that you need to have a competition licence to buy them :o/

Regarding other specs of the braking system, Mike's car was using DOT4 brake fluid (standard on the F I think), and had braided hoses (which I have, but have not yet fitted onto the car). Neither would explain the excellent retardation achieved as higher spec brake fluid only prevents boiling and the hoses only improve pedal feel...

Regarding brake dust- no idea! Probably less than standard pads.

Rob

BTW Yes, you are right, Green stuff pads probably are more comparable to 1144s. But then I was interested in the best pads available that are practical on the road too- and these 1177s seem to fit the bill brilliantly.
Rob Bell

Surely if they are Mintex then you can buy them at any Mintex re-seller!.

If they wear the discs more quickly than standard I assume this is the front discs which I seem to remember are ventilated composite discs - they wont be cheap.

Ted
Ted Newman

Techspeed will probably supply you with Mintex pads.

As regards discs, Brown & gammons were advertising them at something like 45 per pair - although they are not on their currect adverts.

Anyone tried EBC redstuff for road use? Being red in colour, they would go rather well with my red calipers!

Paul
P9 VLS
Paul


Availability.
I'm told that the Mintex 1177s (and I presume 1166s and 1155s) are only
available through RoverSport and they demand a comp.license.
This was a year or so ago so it may be false now.
I know that I briefly tried to find a local supplier without sucess.
The local Mintex shop at Castle Coombe had 1144,1155 & 1166 in their
Mintex brochure, but not 1177s and it was a 2000 brochure. Hmmm...
(See why I thought I needed new pads below! Doh!)

Why 1177s and nothing less ?
Because I need to brake from cold. 1177s do that ... and then just get better! :o)
Anything 'less' will probably stop much better than standard... but only when warm.

Regarding pedal feel. New fluid will help as I'm told any fluid will go off slightly within
6 months. Braded hoses might, but are more for safety I guess.
A bracket (sp?) to stop the main cylinder flexing with the bulkhead does improve things.
"Try this at home kids..." Watch the bulkhead flex when someone pushes down on
the brake pedal. It moves much more than I'd expect.

I managed to glaze the pads for the first time at a recent track day.
Nasty nasty noises (sounded like metal on metal) and I thought that I'd run out of pad!
(After looking a complete ar*e when I tried to replace them and then found no wear.. Doh!)
A good thrashing round the track soon took the glaze off, but I can now see the benefits
of grooved discs. I'll be buying them next time.

Brake dust.
I thought it'd be less. No. I seem to get much more. Oh well... a small price to pay.

Disc wear.
Not as bad as I'd imagined. Have some nice score marks due to a few stones or something
I presume, but wear in not as bad as I'd expected.
Have heard of others with bad pad wear. In fact, they broke up! I'm now told that there
is a fairly strict procedure to bedding these pads in. eg. accelerate to 50 and brake for
10 seconds and the like. Having said that, I didn't do anything other than drive carefully
for the first 50-100 miles and I'm fine.

As Paul asks above, has anyone tried EBC Red Stuff ?
My guess is that they'll be similar to Mintex1166s.
Can anyone confirm ?


If anyone gets the chance to upgrade to 1177s I cannot recommend it enough!

Paul.

PS. See you at the next Track day Rob ?
Paul Nothard

Thanks all for your replies.
I'll try to get them from a Mintex supplier in Belgium ... we'll see !
Fabrice
Fabrice

Paul, regarding the track day- yeah, I really want to, but as usual it is a question of getting time off work... :o/ Fingers crossed!

Paul, you also answered my question WRT glazing with Mintex pads- since they have to work 'relatively' cold frequently, I did wonder if this may become a problem with them. It does seem to be? Bugger, and I had new discs at the last service. Bum.

I've been thinking about brake tests- you know comparing like pads and maybe even disc conversions. What pads do you guys think should be included?

I reckon I know which one is going to win, but then I've told you the answer already! D'oh!!!

Rob
Rob Bell

Check the pics of Mike Satur's brake discs & pads, as fitted on Dirk's VVC. He painted them red with FoliaTec. Looks cool, turns heads :))

That's the original Rover one without wheel fitted:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001803.jpg

That's Mike Satur's one after installation without wheel fitted:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001802.jpg

That's Mike Satur's one after installation with wheel fitted:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001808.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001810.jpg

Before installation (comparison with a CD):
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001591.jpg

Before installation (complete brakes-kit):
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001588.jpg

Before installation (brake-discs close-up):
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001589.jpg

Before installation (EBC kevlar brake-pad close-up):
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4461/P001590.jpg
Luc

I am not totally convinced by cross drilling myself; look good aesthetically, but take material out of the discs and reduce swept area.

Anxieties regarding the potential problems with cross drilling have recently been highlighted on the Modified Metro/Maestro/Montego board, under the thread heading "Shattered brake discs":

http://www.mgcars.org/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&mode=thread&access=&subject=21&source=T&thread=200008011613296672

Something to consider? My preference would be for grooved discs to avoid glazing. I have to keep to standard sized discs to comply with Sprint regulations.

Rob
Rob Bell

Rob,

I did have AP550 fluid in too when you had a spin.
I would recommend changing if you're going to take the car on track days.
Sustained hard braking can result in serious brake fade after a while.
I experienced this at a Donington track day earlier in the year - I had the 1177s all round
but standrad fluid. After 20 mins on the track the brake pedal went very spongy!!!!

enjoy,
Mike.
Mike P

Well, if I fit the braided hoses, I'll have to change the fluid too anyway Mike. Not that I need an excuse!!!

Where did you get the AP550 stuff from? Another RoverSport product?

Cheers

Rob
PS Do you know how much the brake servo strengthening braket costs?
Rob Bell


Rob,
The glazing was after some *serious* hammering.
There was a sprint prepared Toyota there who's brakes were smoking badly at the end of it.
There was also a pukka racing 'B there who was also getting glazed pads. He has grooved
disks so there was no loss of braking.
Even after glazing the pads, they still worked well - I just though that I'd broken something
and was broking using metal upon metal. I know better now. :o)

The pads when cold probably operate at 25% of their capabilities.
(I'm guessing the figures here.)
25% of a *huge* amount of braking is still much greater than the standard pads - if a bit
sqeely (sp?).

Mike:
> After 20 mins on the track the brake pedal went very spongy!!!!
Nah... that was your leg turning to jelly at XXX
:o)

Hope to see you at the track day Rob!

P.
Paul Nothard

Rob,

I got the AP550 from B&G. Can get it from Demon Tweeks I think too and GP Raceware.
Can't remember how much the braket cost - not a lot though.

Rob, Paul,

Do you have a stop watch for Donington? Not officially allowed to time yourself but.....

Mike.
Mike P

This thread was discussed between 02/08/2000 and 03/08/2000

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.