MG-Cars.com
MG MGF Technical HGF??? BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
MG-Cars.net
Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
Recommendations
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG MGF Technical - HGF???
| Hi all, I'm hoping you can put my mind at rest. I was travelling home from work last night when I noticed plumes of steam coming out of the back of the car. Luckily I was by a garage so I pulled in. On closer inspection I had coolant leaking out at quite a rate of knots. I let the engine cool topped up the water and ran the engine up, which started and sounded fine. What was a torrent of water was now more of a drip. I got the car home (only about half a mile) and there it sits. On trying to look under the car I can see the water is drip down from somewhere above the oil filter at the front of the car. At 10pm with a mirror this was about all I could see. I couldnt see any coolant pipes, as I'm hoping it was just something simple like that. On checking the dip stick the oil looked clean. I didnt want to take it straight to the dealer until I had an idea of what it could be as I get the impression dealers are keen on replacing head gaskets whether they need it or not. Anyone got any nice suggests/thoughts on what it could be? Many Thanks Andy |
| Andy |
| The oil filer is below the alternator, above the alternator is the most commmon spot for HGF I'm afraid {8-( |
| Will Munns |
| and there is nought else there to spit water, outlet hose is at the other end of the engine, thermostat and inlet manifold on the other side, so the head gesket is the only point for leakage around there. |
| Will Munns |
| Cheers Will. I thought that might be the case. Do you think this is something best handled by the dealers (cd brammel, in Newcastle in my closest) or can anyone recommend anyone in the stoke area? Am I right in thinking its about 500 pounds to get a head gasket replaced at the dealership? |
| Andy |
| Andy, Don't panic just yet... Whilst on the Treffen I was driving behind Ted who suffered a sudden coolant loss and lot of steam. Rather than a HGF it turned out to be a burst pipe connecting the engine to the underbody coolant pipes. The steam occured when the pipe sprayed onto the hot exhaust manifold. It will be worth your while removing the inspection cover to have a closer look. Tim |
| tim woolcott |
| As Tim says - Ted's coolant leak was from a failed water hose (sprayed coolant everywhere - including the exhaust manifold - hence the steam) - see http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/Treffen2003/day%205/day5_06.jpg |
| Rob Bell |
| YEP as Tim say don't panic - and the coolant pipe that I had burst is at the front of the engine. however I do not think it would have held water for any length of time had we topped it up - there was a stream near by:-) Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Andy, What year is your car? Is it under any warranty, parts and labour with the AA maybe? It might even be worth taking out an AA policy on the car and then claiming on it.....they cover you for upto £500 which would cover the work. You could always take the car down to techspeed in lemington, tow it rather than drive it obviously...they would sort the car out good and proper. Best of luck whatever the case! |
| Rob |
| Thanks everyone. I'll try an whip the engine bay cover off tonight and have a look. I tried last night but it was dark and I struggled. After I unclipped the back window I couldnt raist the hood from the back of the car. Does the hood sit in the rubber seal bit or does the rubber seal bit have to come off as well. I didnt like to welly it last night in case I broke something. Would the AA let me take cover out on a car that was shot or would I need to lie about the state of the car? I'll let you know what I see tonight. Many Thanks Andy |
| Andy |
| Rob, that's insurance fraud. Andy, it lifts as easy as the hood falls, if it doesn't then you haven't got all the clips! |
| Will Munns |
| The edge can 'stick' just give it a good tug after all the clips are undone. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Will...fair point.....so you never drive over 30 then.......principle is the same...but like I say I take your point! |
| Rob |
| >Will...fair point.....so you never drive over 30 then Quite the opposite, in fact I was blatting along an A road this morning at 100, but the principal is not the same, neither is speeding akin to mugging akin to theft, akin to buggery (with or without consent). The most important diffrence with insurance fraud is that you are very lightly to get caught, and then you'll be uninsurable. |
| Will Munns |
| The insurance world takes a very dim view of the course being suggested by Rob and as a matter of fact doing that is a criminal offence and you can go to prison for it whilst doing a few miles over 30 mph is only likely to land you a small fine. And at the end of the day it is not the AA or other insurers that pay it us the premium payers. Sorry if that sounds a bit high and mighty BUT I have always taken a dim view of fraudulent practises. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| So is the point you are making that it's ok to break the law if you don't get caught or that you make a moral judgement upon which crimes you are willing to tolerate....I could use buggery as an example here but I don't want the conversation to degenerate so i'll use speeding instead! Not to get too 'high-browed' about this but the principle in it's purest form is the same! |
| Rob |
| Points taken Ted and Will.....I apologise....error of judgement....and just for the record I haven't ever offered a fraudulent claim....It was just an immediate thought to offer somm assistance to Andy....obvioulsy ill founded! |
| Rob |
| Rob I though that the 'suggestion' was out of character and now I can see that I was correct! Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| >or that you make a moral judgement upon which crimes but aren't the 'crimes' here just TPTB moral judgements? Buggery I chose dileberatly, why should a consenting male adult and a consenting female adult be told that a sexual act that they are doing/have done that has no effect on anyone else, and nor could it should be illegal. The fact is the law is a set of guidelines to outline reasonable conduct, it doesn't make it explicitly right. |
| Will Munns |
| that doesn't parse, try : ...has no effect on anyone else, and nor could it, should be illegal. |
| Will Munns |
| Cheers Ted! Don't want folk to get the wrong impression....too many fools on here of late and I wouldn't like to be counted as one of them. Also I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong or have made an error of judgement....all part of the learning process ;-) |
| Rob |
| Will, This could get messy....haven't done philosphy for a long while....and I seem to remember buggery causing particular problems with the laws of today in my previous discussions. >The fact is the law is a set of guidelines to outline reasonable conduct, it doesn't make it explicitly right. < This is too simple Will.....the Law is not just a set of guidelines....this implies that they don't have to be followed. In this country they do. Which ones we break and which ones we don't is down to us, our moral judgements based on nature and nuture. For example is it ok for a starving mother/child to shop lift a loaf of bread to feed themselves? Or for someone to take revenge upon a murderer. Obvioulsy these issues may appear more extreme, but they still hold to the same structure and principle. You may not see speeding in the same light as insurance fraud or buggery or etc etc but if your act of speeding resulted in a death, by accident, would your perception of the fact that you ignored 'the guidlines' become more or less important. The answer as I see it is no difference. It's the consequnces that have changed and not the principle. That's really my point. Good discussion though..... |
| Rob |
| Christ this is deep! |
| Bob Millar |
| Bob, LOL.....it must be nearly coffee time then! |
| Rob |
| I much prefer a glass of bubbly:-) Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| What next eh? A thread starts about a K&N filter and ends up debating the validity of the catholic church in the 21st Century!!!! |
| Bob Millar |
| >if your act of speeding resulted in a death, by >accident, would your perception of the fact that you >ignored 'the guidlines' become more or less important. Almost always there are two sides in an accident, both parties are usually guilty of something, if I were speeding past a school and someone ran out, then the accident would be almost all my fault, the same speed on a country lane, and the legal 'fault' would probebly lie with the other party. Surely the 'crime' is driving in a manner not approate for the situation. There is a further issue with speed limits, and one that a lot of people don't think about, that is in a 30 "I" may be safe driving at 60, assuming that everyone else has their wits about them, but as it's a 30 it is "safe" for a pedrestrian to assume that you are doing 30. I don't speed in 'restricted' area's (20/30/40/50 limits) for exactly this reason >this implies that they don't have to be followed. In this country they do. No, in this country you _can_ be punished for breaking the law, at the discression of (crimanly) police/CPS/magerstate or (civily) the effected party/magistrate. Consential buggery is an example of where you are unlighly to be convicted, because in the first instance the police are unlightly to care and in the second instance the effected party would also be guilty (I think - assuming that the law isn't worded such that it is only the man who is guilty) |
| Will Munns |
| Crikey - I leave the thread for an hour or so, and look what happens!!! LOL Andy, let's hope that the hose has gone: at least that is cheap to replace :o) The leak can become easier to spot if - when the engine is cold - you remove the expansion cap. If the hose has been holed, the coolant will start to stream out. If this does not result in leaks from any of the pipes (also check pipe unions), then replace the cap, and start the engine. If a head gasket failure, a stream of water will appear somewhere in the vicinity of the exhaust manifold on the right side of the engine (above the alternator belt, as Will mentioned earlier). If the cause of the leak is identified, switch the engine off - the last thing you want to do is cause any more damage to your engine. Arrange for collection of your MG, and delivery to your favoured location for repairs. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! |
| Rob Bell |
| Thanks Rob, I managed to get to the inspection cover off. As an aside is the plastic trim with the little plastic clips supposed to come off with the roof? One side of the car it did, the other it didn't. Anyway, after much messing around with a mirror a touch (the nights are drawing in far too quickly) I managed to see water pissing out on to the top of the alternator from the engine. So I guess this is the dreaded HGF. I'm sure my local dealership is run by a load of monkeys. Can anyone recommend any independant garages in the Stoke area that would be up to doing the job or am I best sticking to the dealers. Am I right in thinking its about a 500 pound job to put right?? The funny thing is the car is just over 4 years old and just went through the mot, so I was going to start looking round for a replacement as I had heard HGF tended to happen around the five year mark, plus I wasnt desperate to put it through the five year service, guess I just wasnt quick enough. Again many thanks Andy |
| Andy |
| Andy, The common 'above the alternator' HGF is the easiest to deal with as it's only coolant leaking out of the engine. There is no big clean up to do, as when you have an oil/water mix HGF. So, although £500 is pretty near the mark for an MGR dealer, you should get a much better deal from an independent specialist. Stoke is not a million miles away from TechSpeed or the MGFCentre. It would be worth you getting one of them to pick up your car and trailer it to their workshops. I use TechSpeed and can thoroughly recommend everything about them from their knowledge of the F, to their customer service and their reasonable labour rates. |
| Dave |
| Argh - sorry Andy, yes, this is a definite HGF :o( Replacement work is best carried out by any of the following [in alphabetical order! ;o) ]: MGF Centre, Mike Satur or Techspeed motorsport. All will do a first class job. When I had a coolant leak, I used Techspeed (used AA Relay to get the car up there - but if this is not an option, Techspeed have their own flat bed). I've used them for servicing and other works for a few years now, and always come away happy (if predictably, a little lighter of wallet!) >> As an aside is the plastic trim with the little plastic clips supposed to come off with the roof? << No, it is supposed to stay in place. Just a little extra misery on a sad day? |
| Rob Bell |
| Sorry to hear the news Andy.... There was always hope until you see that little jet coming out of the HG. At least it should be a straight forward job without any cleaning up as Dave says.... Tim |
| tim woolcott |
| Thanks everyone. I have just got in touch with my local dealer. They say they will need the car for 2 days and want 650 to do the gasket, but recommend a new cam belt which I guess is sensible given the car is just over 4 years old, this they say will be another 100 pounds. So I'm looking at 750 in total, but the women said they would collect the car for free (a trip of about a mile), there's generosity for you. I'm just waiting for the MFG centre to get back to me with a price. Am I right in thinking this is the right Techspeed http://www.tech-speed.co.uk I'll get in touch with them and see what they think. Many Thanks Andy |
| Andy |
| £100.00 to renew the cam belt when they have the head off anyway! That sounds a bit like excess profiteering to me AND I believe in profiteering normally. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| £100 doesn't go far at an MGR dealership. I think the labour rate is around £60 per hour! Sam |
| Sam Murray |
| >£100 doesn't go far at an MGR dealership. >I think the labour rate is around £60 per hour! Yeh, but the 'extra' work is taking off the alternator belt and the engine mount (two bolts?) |
| Will Munns |
| Andy, > >Am I right in thinking this is the right Tech-speed http://www.tech-speed.co.uk > >I'll get in touch with them and see what they think. Yes, that's their web site, but my advice is to contact them by phone and not through the web-form or by email. They do not have direct control over their website and it has not been unknown for emails to go astray. HTH |
| Dave |
| Andy, best phone either Roy or Marvin: their email has to be redirected to them (a service that is unfortunately rather unreliable) |
| Rob Bell |
| Just so you can live the experience with me, I have had this from the MGF Centre Hi Andy To repair HGF will cost £525+vat, we recondition the engine for that price so its like having a major service as well, we also replace the waterpump , pretensioner, belts, air filter and oil filter, recovery will cost £45, and the next available time is 1st week of Nov the car will need to be with us for 1 week. Any questions please call on 01902 403045. Thanks Victoria To my reckoning that will total out at 661 pounds, but it sounds like I will get more for my money there. Shame about the wait to get it in, but I guess you cant have everything. Have to wait and see if techspeed come up with anything. Cheers Andy |
| Andy |
| LOL Dave! You beat me to the "type"! ;o) |
| Rob Bell |
| Thanks Rob/Dave, I did use the web form, but I'll give them a call and see what they say. Cheers Andy |
| Andy |
| > >LOL Dave! You beat me to the "type"! ;o) Not often that happens Rob :-) |
| Dave |
This thread was discussed between 14/10/2003 and 15/10/2003
MG MGF Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.