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MG MGF Technical - hgf options

Was just pondering

IF I ever suffered a HGF and it turnd out to be an expensive one - does anyone have any info on other engines of the same sort of output that would be an easy - ish fit ???

Something quite common that you could maybe buy secondhand ?


Wel, the 1.8 litre K-series is pretty common...


Ed Clarke

Would prefer something more reliable :)

Seriously - If you had serious failure and had to pay out £1000 or more - why not stick a good old fashioned 2.0 litre iron block in the F - Or a more reliable modern engine ?

There must be loads of Mazda MX5 engines out there - after all there more or less bullet proof - may even get a turbo chucked in secondhand :)?

No one considered this as a realistic option ?

The MX-5 engine would still overheat in the MGF due to it's location just make sure that your MGF dosent overheat and I doubt that you will have an HGF and don't listen to all the careless dudes on here assuming that you will have HGF.

Cheers RR


I still had an HGF and my car never overheated. Pushing the myth again I see :-)
Tony Smith

I believe Mike Satur was looking to the VW VR6.
I would like to take a look at putting a 2.2 / 2.3 litre Honda VTEC in - especially considering the PG1 gearbox origins.


Thanks guys

Just seems to make sense to have an option should a horror occur

Big grin at the honda engine route :) Now that would end up in a hedge! -- sounds just right for me :)

Just to backup whats already been said. My mechanic (who builds rally cars in his spare time) offered to put a 1.8(I think) Honda Vtech into my F when the HGF blew the crap out of the weedy K-series that was in it. I declined as I thought this would destroy the cars resale value, should I decide to sell it on at some point.

I'm a bit iffy about putting a different engine into a car thats already quite dodgy in build, the vtech would be somewhat swifter and far more reliable in theory. But as RitchieR says the engine location might lead to overheating. The Vtech isn't used to sitting in an enclosed box in the middle of the car. However, RitchieR's claims of Overheating causing HGF smack of ignorance. For the record, yes overheating can cause HGF or at least contribute. However in many cases/most ? the overheating is a symptom of HGF, a HGF can occur even when the car is not overheating. In my car the overheating occured after the gasket was gone, the oil and water poured into the cylinders, with no coolant left in the tank (it had been dumped into the cylinders (what didn't quickly evaporate and come out the back as steam, could not be compressed by the cylinders thus causing the block to warp around the top to allow the water to force itself out), only then did it overheat. And boy did it overheat, normal to redzone in about 20 seconds. The car was fully warmed up at this stage but had not gone mabove 30 mph that day so far.

My mechanic, however, who with 30 years prepping Rally cars and working as head mechanic in a huge BMW dealership (some MG people here won't like that), seemed confident that he could slot the Vtech in with no problems. I would be inclined to take his word for it over the somewhat less educated word of someone like me, or worse Ritche.


PS: Don't worry about it too much yet. You may not have a HGF you know. It's not compulsory. At least I hope its not.
dave quigley

Dave Quigley, you seem to want it all ways here as you say that <<as RitchieR says the engine location might lead to overheating>> then <<<However, RitchieR's claims of Overheating causing HGF smack of ignorance>>> then <<<For the record, yes overheating can cause HGF or at least contribute>>>

Then worse still <<<In my car the overheating occurred after the gasket was gone>>> Idiot Dave has admitted to driving has car after he knew the gasket was gone and warped his head!! You only deserve what you got too!! Though you did probably break the record to see how fast you could severely overheat it to the point of warped engine…. What were you hoping for Captain Kirk!!

Enough said you should take your whinges else where as the majority on this BBS are fed up with them!

Cheers RichieR

PS. Very happy 5Yr MGF owner. As solid as it was the day it left the showroom! No HGF even though one of the supposedly older poor quality ones!! Bollocks

If you want an Vtec engine buy a s2000 if you want a mazda engine buy an MX5.

cake and eat it!?

thanks for the info chaps - I hope i wont have HGF

Just good to have alternatives :)

Richie - why so hostile man -everyone is just airing there veiws - Chill -- everyone has opinion s - some contradict -EVEN MINE :):): - but then thats the nature of cars and engineering - many scenarios for many different events NOT all leading to the same conclusions !

Ritche , how f*cking stupid are you, in fact how old are you, you seem to have the IQ of a biscuit. It would be quite obvious to anyone with the abilty to comprehend english or the capacity for abstract thought that the HGF caused the overheat within 20 seconds, I was not aware the car was overheating as it was 20 seconds between glances at the dial, and pulled in as soon as was possible, in fact if it were not for this BBS putting the fear of HGF into me, I probably wouldn't have been looking at the dial as frequently.

If your car overheats badly, you may be more prone to HGF, that is pretty obvious, However, due to the weakness's of the K engine, (see Dave Andrew recent posts) the HGF's happen for different reasons, poor design and inappropriate materials it seems, MG's changes to the engine in this regard would seem to indicate that MG, if not an ignoramus like yourself, agree. In my case, and most of the HGF's around here, heat was the end result of the HGF. Its spelled out in my previous mails and in the mails of many others on this topic. It's not an opinion it's a fact, I have the garage bills and photo's of the damage to prove it.

I WILL S-P-E-L-L it out for you, the car did not overheat and get a HGF, it was very obviously the other way around, as it is in the majority of cases.

Now I think I can see through you, you are a sh*t stirrer with no interest in these cars, you proclaim to be a fan to try to deflect some of the heat that you hope your posts will generate, well dickhead, after paying enough to almost buy another F in repair bills this year, I have still kept my car, I am a real fan. Retyping my posts with a little 'then....' between sentences, then making some stupid reference to star trek at the end with no relevance to the bits that came before smacks of stupidity and clutching at straws.

Hey want a taste of your own medicine ?

Ritchie says ... 'Idiot Dave has admitted to driving has car after he knew the gasket was gone and warped his head!! You only deserve what you got too!! Though you did probably break the record to see how fast you could severely overheat it to the point of warped engine…. What were you hoping for Captain Kirk!!'

Yet..... dave clearly says in his post..... 'the oil and water poured into the cylinders, with no coolant left in the tank (it had been dumped into the cylinders (what didn't quickly evaporate and come out the back as steam, could not be compressed by the cylinders thus causing the block to warp around the top to allow the water to force itself out)' as is eveident from this, the HEAT DID NOT CASE THE ENGINE TO WARP (By the way richie wrong again, I clearly sadid the BLOCK warped, not the HEAD, for the ignorant (specifically yourself) the block is the bit on the bottom). In fact because water does not compress as well as oil, the pistons could not compress the water that had flown into the cylinders so it was forced out the top of the cylinder pots, The engine warped under pressure, not heat.

I hope that my experiences with the car may prevent or at least help someone else who has the same problem. People who come here, normally have problems, telling them everything is super, does not help these people, they want to hear what other people with similar problems have found and done. For me, I couldn't quite believe what my mechanic was telling me, so I can on here where good, well informed people like Dave Andrews, Dieter, Ted, Rob Bell etc.... (even Dirk, who goes overboard, but I can still understand where he's coming from as I have had almost as bad a time of it) understood what I was telling them (what my mechanic was telling me), and thus helped me understand the problem and in the process help me not get ripped off by my mechanic.

At least I try to chip in with whatever knowledge I have, this happens to be mostly about HGF as that has formed the majority of the experience I have had with the car so far, I am hoping for better days ahead. I always tell people, if they are buying an F, yes HGF can happen, does happen, but may not happen to you, I think it happens more on these cars than many other makes/models, but I still think that you can't get a better sports car for the money. I think people should be aware of all the facts before they make their purchase. I wish I was, then I would have bought a newer model, instead of an older one to use as a second car.

You on the other hand have nothing valid to contribute here so f*ck off. It's not another school holiday over in the UK by any chance ?



Please do stop and think before you write anything on this site. I don't know Dave Quigley, but I have found his descriptions of the problems he has had with his car very interesting and informative. HGF in the MGF is clearly not a simple, single-cause phenomenon, and there is certainly no point in being so rude to people who disagree with you.

Your generally argumentative tone simply makes everyone suspect that you're using rudeness to cover up for a lack of real knowledge.

David Bainbridge

Dont even think it!
Roger i am sure would agree
the best engine for the F is the 1.8 K series

I have fitted unusal engines to cars and beleive me they are such a pain!
I put a 2.5 litre TR6 engine in a Triumph Spitfire years ago
not only was the supposedly simply job a pain, it made the car have rather strange/nasty handling characterisitics
so dont do it!

an HGF is only an HGF after all
and the KV6 is still not ready yet!

I wonder though, any tech guru's out there (Roger/Dave) be able able to explain the consequences of putting a VTech (1.8) into an F ? I woudn't do it myself but would love to know if it's as easy as was suggested to me, and what way it would affect the car in terms of performance, handling etc... also would it slot straight in or would you have to butcher the engine bay and the various connecting systems.
dave quigley

"IQ of a biscuit" I must remember that one for future use


we stuck a v8 into a vauxhall ventura when i was about 14.
Coulnt get the gearbox to marry up - so hit the firewall with a sledgehammer untill it fitted
Course we could only get three bolts in - so that did the trick - BANANA SHAPED connection

Police found us in a ditch after the gearbox exploded and ripped the engine up - forcing the block up through the engine bay - ahhhhhhhh CHILDHOOD memories :)

How about an old Rollys Royce Estate Car (hearse actually) which cracked its block to so we fitted an old ex-army Bedford Diesel and gearbox - it went well but the noise would wake the dead so we couldn't use it for its original build purpose.

As you say memories of youth - a long time ago I am afraid.

Ted Newman

Tony, I’m glad that these guys haven’t filled you with doom and gloom about how crap they think the cars are, weak engines, etc! This guy Dave is just plainly ignorant and has just been really rude on a number of occasions… I don’t want to offend anyone but just don’t like to be spoken too or about in the way he has! Anyway, I was only highlighting what utter crap he talks and due to what he has again written feel compelled to add….

DAVE QUIGLEY, Ireland - also sometimes known as Capt Kirk!

I am getting really bored with you now, if you don't like what you hear Mr HGF then tough luck! Now we can argue all day about who said what, etc although it all ‘boils’;) down to your POV whether you argue that the HGF causes the water leak then associated over heating or the other way round. Let me remind you that this ‘dickhead’ hasn’t had a HGF in 5yrs of owning my VVC, what does that say for you! Therefore taking account of your track record or ‘bad luck’ as you like to put it, I think that I am in a better position when offering advice about how to look after the car as clearly you have failed in that department!

However you have now turned this into a silly personal argument... so let's have some fun..!

...Like you say perhaps you should have bought newer F ‘as your second car :)’ at least then you'd have known more about it’s service history, although I think that this may not have helped you considering your atrocious spelling (eveident, sadid, etc) I expect that you may have struggled on some of the sentences in the service record and this doesn’t even take account of your pathetic grammar. In retrospect it’s quite funny considering you made quite a few references to my poor English language and spelling, etc although perhaps it is you that should go back to school or is this normal in your neck of the woods!

Another thing it wasn’t medicine that I was dishing out but purely the truth, just one thing though, the truth hurts doesn’t it! I guess you’re too dumb to notice the reference between Star Trek and what you said about warping the engine and that you must be some low-life retard that can’t even appreciate a good joke!

Finally, not everyone comes on here because they have problems as a matter of fact there is only about a half dozen or so of you that have had HGF’s and whine about the engines reliability, etc, all the time ZZzzzz… why don’t you read some of the other posts from Arthur, Trevor, Tony, Steve, Tony, etc, etc who all talk very positively about the cars.

In the meantime I look forward to meeting you at one of the shows - I’ll just look out for the car being towed in by the AA. ;) However later on I may even help you give it a good push with my 220lbs to get it started!

Cheers RichieR

PS. Take it easy and chill out a bit there is no need to get personal!

Spelling ? Thats it ? I'm not here to write a short story for the publishers, I don't need to get it proof read, besides most of them are typos. I don't have time to compose essays, I type what I think, I don't care how disjointed it is, and I'm sure no-one else does. For the record, I never made a reference to your spelling. You do read the posts don't you ? But lets not slit heirs over semantics. Now go back and re-read this whole thread and look at your last post, not for spelling, sentence construction etc... but for content and logic. Doesn't make sense does it ? The whole 'told you so, truth hurts' routine, only works if you have told me something. You haven't. I feel embarrassed for you when I read your silly posts.

Secondly, I don't watch Star Trek, I guess you must be some 'low life retard' who does (no offence trekkies).
I got a full service history with my F, however, that still does not cater for the fact that the previous owner may indeed have driven the balls off it. The point is that the older cars do seem to be weaker. Some people like Ted and Rob don't have HGF's in the older cars (and I wish them the best of luck with it, I wish I had their cars), a disproportionate amount do. Let me remind you that I have owned many many cars over the years with no problems and treat them all like gold, so don't even try to imply that the cars problems are down to anything I do other than day to day use, I am kinder to cars than most and get them serviced every 6k, my dad was a mechanic so I have seen many cars come and go. I know a turkey when I see it. My car is/was a turkey, although by now it should be the motoring equivalent of the six million dollar man with almost all new major parts. I am expecting it to be fine from here on. There is no doubt, I got my pants pulled down when I bought that one despite the AA check.

Ritchie, I don't think you own an MGF, I think you're a wannabe, you talk like a schoolboy. You talk about your weight 220lbs, like thats supposed to scare people, so what you're fat, I'm a former international athlete, big deal, no-one cares. (By the way, if you want to talk weights, years of pain the the gym ensure that my puny 150lbs can lift 220lbs dead weight straight over my head, so as my car will already be towed by the AA, there will be no-one to tow yours in the event of a -shock horror- HGF on your perfect motor, I can give you a piggy back home if your fat ass can't take the walk ;) I won't need help pushing my F either, I've had plenty of practice already. I hope I do meet you and the others at a motor show, I work for a company in Basingstoke (over the web) and am thinking of driving rather than flying over to the UK in the spring to try to get to one of the meets or trackdays whilst I'm there. Theres a very good chance I might do the Treffen run too.

By the way, this is the technical board, take a look at all the messages on it. Most of them are technical queries/problems. Are you blind ? Take a look in the Techical archives.

If you want to talk about being positive, you should re-read all my posts over the past 12 months, a few glitches aside down to depression at the size of the repair bills, I always advocate the F as being a great car, I don't have the pom poms out like you do, so what your car is super, many here are not, or have not been in the past. I don't have the I hate MG Tshirt like Dirk. You could say I am neutral. I always call it like I see it. I think I have made it clear on more than one occasion that I think the car is in terms of appearance and handling the best in it's class, I love it's heritage, it's community and everything about it, except its tendency to let me down more than my previous motors have. I hope this has now been sorted.
I am not short a few quid and could get pretty much any car I like right now, but choose to keep the F as a second car, despite what it's costing me. For me it a British Sports car in British racing green. The stuff I was brought up on when I lived in London as a child. Because of what I have put up with, I reckon that makes me a real fan.

I don't need to come on here, piss people off and then go on about how positive others should be about this great car, so I might get a bit of backup or support. You offer nothing to this board and clearly haven't a clue about the MGF. You're just a sh*t stirrer, a really boring one. At least Jonesy et al were at times funny, in a Viz kind of way.

You may have noticed by the way that most of the regulars who have replied to your mails have told you to get lost in not so many words. If you have nothing valid to contribute Do yourself a favour, take their advice.

Dave Quigley

<<I may even help you give it a good push with my 220lbs to get it started!>>


Posted on this thread by RichieR London:

<<Tony, I’m glad that these guys haven’t filled you with doom and gloom about how crap they think the cars are, weak engines, etc!>>

Posted on another thread by RichieR London:

<<just came back from Mike Satur’s as my car just had its 5yr service.... Mike noticed that my VVC cam bolt was OK however the bearing was damaged further investigation revealed that it has been damaged since assembly +5yrs ago. Mike was very surprised that it hadn't failed and noticed scoring on its side where it had been forced into the block by our friends at Rover during assembly.

Unlike you I was lucky because Mike could replace it on the day...boy am I glad that I went to MS 200miles away rather than my local MG garage 5mins away!>>

Now who looks like a complete dick?


I don't have the time to pull your latest load of crap to bits...just keep crying about those poor bills caused by your inability to properly look after the car... I'll bring a few hankies along to one of the shows for you. Let me know where and when your going to be there… hey Basingstoke’s not far from me!

I'm 220Lbs because I'm 6' 4" which is a bit of a squeeze in the F and a bit of a shock when folk see you getting out of it. I never spent time down the gym and am really scared of you as you sound like a big tough guy though I suppose I'll meet you anyhow.

Cheers RichieR :)

Hey Dave - where in Basingstoke - I work out of there

Knows we are all friendly really :)

Ohh, but please do pull my latest load of crap to bits you spanner, make sure you read it first this time though or you'll embarass yourself again. And whilst you're at it, Dogma's too. I think Dogma caught you with your britches down little boy. Joking aside.. are you schizophrenic Dogma's note seems to indicate so? I'd feel bad about taking the piss out of you if you were.

Hey I ain't crying about my bills either, I would rather spend the cash on other things though, who wouldn't ? I could have/would have/will still have an almost perfect Spitfire/MGB or maybe even an Opel GT parked outside the door and insured as a classic car for the money I've spent looking after my F this year, better yet, I could have got a full leather /walnut conversion from Mike Satur and loads of other bit's and pieces for the F, which was the original intention. Thems the breaks as they say.

By the way, I never said I was big you initially brought up the subject of size for no apparent reason. In fact I'm a wee fella, so try not to be too scared if you spot a very shiny BRG Irish Reg F around the Hampshire area.

Looking forward to reading all your future posts you lunatic.


Dave Quigley

Dave, Dave, Dave, Earlier this year I got the full MS Leather re-trim, door pods, speaker grills, T-Bar, arm rest, etc. so now the car is a combination of aluminium, chrome, light stone beige/charcoal leather inside. :) previously had the outside done with Daytona exhaust, quad lamps, MS windbreak, chrome s/sport air intakes, Chrome mirrors, stainless grills, K&N, Hardtop, SatNav, lowered, new brakes, etc and I just spent another 1300 on her 5yr service + a few other bits... what a service she got at Mikes, coolant pipes replaced, silicone HT leads, also added some chrome handles and even tried the FSE boost valve which incidentally is quite good!

She goes into SuperChips this week to have one of their race units installed and programmed for the car on S/Unleaded, I will get power runs before and after and will post them on here.

So I know what its like to spend the money on nice things, hey here's hoping that youll get the engine fixed and forget the nightmare and then perhaps get the chance to start looking through the catalogues for all those nice add-ons :)

Cheers RichieR

Oh yes I forgot a few other bits, Alum lower door trims, Alum race pedals, Alum escutcheon pins, Chrome, ashtray, lighter, handbrake, Alum dash, Alum heater knobs, Chrome ball gear knob, L/Stone beige/charcoal luxury steering wheel + L/Stone beige gear and handbrake gaitors, Alum mirror thingys, mega uprated two-way competition speakers, Oh yes and stubby aerial, and rear screen saver probably a few other things I cant remember! :) Love the car and will never sell it.

Cheers RR

Hmmm, mines already lowered and got the official color coded hard top. I was thinking Beige Leather and Walnut, but like that whole charcoal/chrome thing equally. Not too worried about the performance extra's apart from the KN as the roads/lunar landscape, dirt tracks here wouldn't allow you to try them out.

Satnav, now that would be very nice for my travels around europe. Previously I had thought about a GPS thingy to plug into my laptop to hook up with MS Mappoint, must look into the satnav systems and see how they compare. My problem is my location here is far from a trustworthy main dealer, my mechanic is always busy at work/rallys so the car has been off the road for 5 months this year, I trust my mechanic and he does things uite cheaply, the downside is that I have to wait, which I am prepared to do because I have the other cars to get me around. Still annoying though.
Should be getting it back tonight actually 2 months after it went in for a clutch and bonnet cable. MOT on friday.

Dave Quigley

Looks like a basingstoke meet-up is a distinct possibility ! If it's going to be violent I'll be in my bike gear though.


To be fair Dave, I'd be going nuts if my car gave up too!

It is true that the leather interior is a difficult choice as the Beige Leather and Walnut combo really works too. You can also get some excellent s/wheels to match. I wouldn't go anywhere except Mikes for any of the products or engineering work as the quality is top notch.

I got SatNav installed because I was born and bred in Glasgow for 28yrs however I have now been down here in Heathrow area for 2—3 years because I mostly travel on business everywhere. I need to watch out for those corporate dinners as they don’t really help the waistline! :) This is why I got the SatNav so that I didn't get lost down here. I also bought the France disk which includes the Michelin Green and Red Guides and went down to Cannes earlier this year and met a few of the MG folks!

Nest year we have a big villa in Tuscany with the family and I have therefore been investigating the costs of the Alps and Italian Disks - bloody expensive those things!

Cheers RichieR

What no slick shift Richie?
Iam suffering from a soft head and insomnia 8-{

Not yet Elvis though its on the list, I just came back from SuperChips today and about to post the before and after results which have made me very happy with 159BHP at the wheels and a huge increase in torque (1800-3100RPM) although right across the rev range peaking at 136lbft - When I get a minute I will post the PowerPlot :)
Richard Russell

RR- please can you summarise special mods to your car and code ref of Superchips chip? Ta
T Green

T Green, Please see the other thread titled 'WOW 159BHP at Wheels' for further details about the car...

Cheers RichieR

Well now Richie has an ICON fitted I think his chances of finding out have been made a little higher :-)

Richie, I'm surprised you didn't go the whole hog and save up for a supercharger, only about 5000 quid (turbotechnics), over 200 BHP. :-)))))
Tony Smith

Alternative engines for the F are few because the space between the side of the engine bay and suspension is short and engines like the T16 Turbo unit would end up with the cam belt in the wheel!! This does mean any engine has to be very compact and short, so most 4 cyls will be ruled out. The AER Le Mans engine is amazingly compact hence that is why this fits.

My thoughts on going a KV6 route are valid in this area because the V6 is as short as the 4 cyl K.
I have not completely forgotten this potential route, although it is on a back burner until I see fully what the revamped MGF range will have. The countdown for that having dropped under 60 days to the start line!

Roger Parker

This thread was discussed between 22/11/2001 and 30/11/2001

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