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MG MGF Technical - Hydragas Pump (available)
|I bought a proper pump over the weekend. If anyone needs a pump up and can get to Potters Bar please E Mail me.|
I intend making a charge of £20 to help cover the cost of the pump.
|Nice one Tim.|
What kind of charging structure do you plan? I am planning to fit my own lowering knuckles, so would need to both depressurise and re-pressurise the hydragas system. 20 quid all in for that?
|Rob, I dont see why not. The pump can very simply de-pressurise the system, the fluid goes back into the the pumps resevoir, and then pumps up to whatever you want. The pump has a pressure gauge built into it.|
As Poters bar is just half an hours drive for me and as The Green Squirrel is now owned by me (rather than my company) I will make a note of your offer for the next time I need to 'pump up' as I do from time to time to allow me access to my garage which has a couple of steep ramps to negotiate.
|Thanks Ted, happy to oblige. Look forward to meeting you at some time.|
great, the first one with an original one :)
If you got time and have the skills to 'have a look inside'... my immidiate recommendation is to replace the pressure gauge by one with a large scale diameter.
63 mm as minimum. :)
This will give you the advantage to setup the hight more in a physicale based direction, cause IMO the final pressure is vital and its range and measure results is more important then at last the resulting ride hight.
This terms are IMO not better explained in the WS-Manual because the patented pump and the principals know-how is 'converted' to the main term 'right hight' and metering only mm so that this guys can work with it.
Ride hight an toe angles belong together, no question, but the pressure in the right and lefthand side and influences of weight and temperature are the 'principals terms'.
PS. the vacuum gauge is not so important IMO.
The gauge on the pump is about 60 mm diameter and is easy to read. I bought the pump from MINI SPARES in N London. It was obviously intended to be used on the Mini and Metro range of cars as it lists the recommended pressures for these cars. I like my F at a ride height of 350 and the pressure at this height is just over 400psi. For the first time my steering wheel points straight ahead when going straight, if you know what I mean.
|Possibly the same pump as the one I found via http://www.minispares.com/Search_Inventory.cfm|
You'll need to do a 'Part Number Search' for TOOL01
Seems to be £299 after a 'non sale 10% discount' ??
vat? delivery charge?
|60mm ---> Ah, so it's a newer version :)|
.. and you've also got the first data from your own car.
Keep my 'recommendations' in mind in any way. You will surely wonder how much different the pressures and resulting hights will be at the MGFs which will come under your pumping actions ... and I would be very interested in the data. *g*
How much did you pay for the pump, if you don't mind me asking? Essex club MGF are looking at buying one within the next few weeks, & havenít sourced a definitive price as yet.
There is about six of us who will be chipping in for the pump & we we're also considering charging £20 per usage for anyone who doesnít want to chip in. Might be worth you coming in with the rest of us & then you could use the pump at no extra charge whenever you want..
|The pump cost £290.81 inclusive of VAT and 5 litres of fluid.|
|Crumbs, I've missed a bit with work haven't I Dave?|
Yes, ofcourse, I'd be happy to chip in for the common good :o)
that one TOOL1 has no suction option, right ?
Austin Americas and '65-'69 (and some later) Minis have "Hydrolastic" suspensions, referred to as "wet". They're riding on 4 bags filled with pressurized fluid akin to antifreeze. As the systems age they are prone to lose pressure and require pumping up. Your neighborhood garage is NOT equipped to do this! You, your mechanic, or your club may want to invest in this unique pump to keep the "wet" cars on the road.
TOOL01 is complete with pressure guage. For our 'economy' pump without guage see ALB600.
The pump, when not pressurised, will allow the existing fluid to drain back into its resevoir because it is under pressure.
Is this what you meant?
yes it seams here is the term where it differs.
Controlled release of pressure and pumping it back are the vital service actions for the ride hight correction and adjustment.
But for the change of the knuckle joints is the vacuum suction function required. Only a bit vacuum lets the diaphragmas lift upwards so far that the bolts of the knuckles can be pulled out easy and without 'breaking your fingers'.
Sorry Robert, you still need Carls Tool #2.
Look for a 40mm double acting used or new pressed air cylinder (the longer it is, the better it is). The rest is really easy and can be built without lathe works.
Instruction guide is still under construction and the parts are still waiting in my garage. I see I need to hurry on that instead of writing to the BBS.
|Rob, if you fit lowering knuckles can you still enter the sprints and hill climbs. I believe that John Thomas had them fitted, but had to remove them later on.|
The regs allow the use of lowering knuckles this year, thus the reason JT removed them last year.
The regs where changed after the drivers briefing where we lobbied to allow them.
|The vacuum facility is only needed when there is a possibility of air entering the system. This occurs if you depressurise the system and then break into the system for component changes, such as a displacer change. If you depressurise with the pump connected you eliminate the chance of air into the system. |
In fact even for a pressurise you should release fluid pressure initially so you purge air from the connection line between pump and car.
So for fitting lowered knuckles you should release pressure via the pump AND ensure it remains connected during the work. Then when re-pressurising you can simply pump back up and hover around 420psi.
Incidentally Hydro fluid is readily available in 5 litre sized at most motorfactors that deal with the trade.
|>So for fitting lowered knuckles you should release pressure via the pump AND ensure it remains connected during the work. |
indeed the most important term. Somthing else would be stupid.
Carls and my curious 'suction thing' provides this.
We take two pumps, release fluid and suck and make the knuckle works, then open the valve to let the fluid get back airfree to the system until internal pressure is equal to athmospheric pressure.
Then we change the pump and connection to the pressure pump (a selfmade or the fr above availiable TOOOL1 on other hand) and then pump it up.
I see. I need to hurry building this ready and host the drawings and some explaining photos. You will see. A 'normal mechanical technician' will never come on Carls idea to use (rape) a pressed air cylinder and a three way hand tap for such a design.
.. but Carl is an electrical engineer... ROFL...(so what should be standard ??)
Anyway such silly ideas led to several more or less important silly looking but WORKING ideas!!! :)
That is the Picture Carl sent. Mine is as said still in parts in my garage.
PS where in heaven his Carl :(. I'll write an snail to see wether he is well.
Keep me posted of how much it will cost. I may be interested in chipping in.
|Hi Dieter- great to talk to you yesterday! :o) Hurry up and write those knuckle fitting instructions my friend, because I want to lower the car before the next sprint!!! ;o) LOL|
Thanks Sarah- as Tom mentioned at the last driver's meeting we re-wrote the rules to allow the fitment of lowering knuckles for this season onwards- on the basis that this route was better for the long term longevity of the hydragas spheres than extreme depressurisation. Permissible ride heights are as low as 320mm! Unfortunately, I have a large number of nasty speed humps near where I live- anyone know of a way of 'shimming' lowering knuckles to allow a higher ride height at a mean pressure of 400-420psi?
I am encouraged by your words Rog- I wasn't sure where I'd be able to get a hydragas 'vacuum' pump for knuckle instalation!
If/when I fit the knuckles, I'll post something here about it :o)
This thread was discussed between 10/04/2000 and 12/04/2000
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