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MG MGF Technical - ICE - Cut to the Chase Please!!

I know reams have been written on this topic but can someone just cut to the chase and give some succinct advice on this - I am looking to get decent sounds in the *F* preferably without changing the head unit because I like the dinky removeable panel. Just want to be able to hear decent sounds above the wind noise. Any advice and what kind of damage are we looking at in terms of cost?

Jody

with std head unit?
you can't... ;-)

Go to a decent car hifi store, there are some killer head units out there for a fair price (esp. the JVC's & Sony's)

remember: Philips sucks, Kenwood & Pioneer have ugly displays

if you have an emir in Kuwait as uncle, go for the new Alpine units ;-)))

Dirk
using Sony MDX-C7900R MD/CD unit, with very sexy removeable panel
Dirk Vael

>>Kenwood & Pioneer have ugly displays<<

Hi Dirk,

I agree with you about Kenwood : display & design :((

Have you seen the new Pioneer units with "Organic EL" displays (? or something like this) ?
IMO the best looking so far, and also in MD
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/images/car376.jpg


Fabrice
Fabrice

Can you fit an amp to the standard unit? I'm not sure you can - which means that you will struggle to improve sound using the existing head unit.

Paul
P9 VLS
Paul

More important to change the speakers. The head unit isn't as bad as I'd thought. Had to return my new head unit for repairs so was forced to listen to the old unit with new Altec Lansing speakers - not a lot of difference - it was still good. Maybe <£150 for some decent speakers
Dominic

I may have only owned an MGF for a few days now and
dont don't much about them but I like to think I now a fair bit about ICE(Having spent £2500 on ICE in my last car! Which is currently on my spare room floor looking sorry for itself :-)

Anyway here's my advice;

1) If your using tapes then upgrading to CD will
immediatly gain 30% volume because it is only amplyfing
the music.
2)Standard headunits like those found on the "F" kick out around 10 watts per channel (4 channels, 4 speakers). A good headunit from one of the 4 main brands (Alpine, Pioneer, Kenwwod or Sony) gives out around 40 watts per channel. (These figures are all PMPO and not RMS) So you dont have to be a rocket scientist to work out its going to be a lot louder (about 50% if youve currently got a standard tape player).
3) If for some reason you want to keep your current headunit the other option is to buy and amplifier. Which will work with the standard headunit. Most amps offer something called "speaker input" which means you plug the speaker outputs into the amp and then another cable from the amp.

4) Unless you want heavy duty sounds that shake shop windows then changing the speakers is not worth it. The most important item in an ICE install is the quality of the amplifier, then the source, then speakers and last the cabling.

All in all I would advise most people to go for option 2 if your using the standard headunit. You can buy a very good cd headunit for around £200 and takes 10 mintues to fit. And if need be you can put the old stereo back anytime you want.
The amplifier option will cost more, a half decent 4 channel amp is around £150 plus fitting costs which could be between £50-150.

I plan to install all my ICE into my car..... one day when its raining....maybe.

My headunit is quite unusual.... its an empeg. Its not CD, MD or tape..... its an MP3 player!! It holds 4 gigs worth of songs in it(about 1000 songs!) and has a graphic LCD display that makes the new pioneer EL displays look like microwave displays.

Anyway if you want on more info Id be more than willing to help.

Matt
Matthew Warren

Thanks for all that guys, very helpful indeed. now to find a decent shop that won't rip me off. Any recommendations? Anywhere within a 20-30 mile radius from West London.
Jody

Jody

There's a few in your area:

1) Hendon Car audio (also got on online shop! but no
pictures) http://hendoncarstereo.co.uk/ . Their at Hendon Car Stereo
8-10 Parson Street
London NW4 1QB

2)Autosound based in Queens Road, Watford. Generally friendly people with advice and free fitting of headunits! And my local :-)

All the units are roughly the same just choose one of the named brands and find one you like the looks off and is easy to use. i.e. One with lots of flashy lights..



Matthew Warren

Hi Jody- as we've chatted before- I have taken the route proposed by Matt- keep the standard head, and gone for a quality amplifier (a Rockford Fosgate). As Matt says, most amps do have a 'speaker input' and the unit I purchased is no exception.

My personal preference of upgrade would be, in order:

1. New amp (surprise surprise)
2, Replacement speakers

And keep the standard head! Looks bog standard so the light fingered are less likely to take an interest. And ofcourse, the pop out panel is rather dinky... ;o)

Rob
Robert Bell

Hi Matthew

Wow, you've got an empeg. I've been following the tale - what's it like?? We've got a 10Gb music share here, and I really fancy copying it to the car.

Stefan
Stefan Gibney

Thanks for the tips re dealers. Have also found Longmill Corporation on the internet - has anyone heard of them before??

Rob - I think I will do just that - an amp thingey and some speakers.

cheers fellas!
Jody

Does the standard head unit have outputs for 4 speakers as the head unit has indications that it does but without removing it and looking at the back I cannot tell.
It sounds like the best option is Amp and modified speakers with the standard head unit for security, but I want to fit more speakers and need to know if the std unit has 4 speaker outputs.

Tom
P305 DPB
Tom Randell

Yep - four speaker outlets at back of standard head unit - two unued in MK1 *F*

Not mine though - two rears used as headphone connection.

Ted
Ted Newman

I would strongly recommed to change the speakers as well. I changed the Unit for a Kenwood Mask CD player. The sound quality increased. However the standard "Cheap" Speakers were not able to repoduce the sounds very well. When I fitted New speakers Magnet 216. Cost about £120. The base response was tight and I noticed that low base sounds were being repoduced. This was not the case with the Rover standard speakers. The treble was also very clear and you could here the different instruments being played very clearly. I was surprised that you could get this in a car set up, with a soft top. Still not as good as decent home hi-fi Naim, Linn, Mission etc but then a lot cheaper.

Another point people mention is the looks. Let your ears do the looking. If you have every look at a Naim hi-fi it looks crap but sounds excellent Bang Olufsen looks good but the sound quality is no way as good as Naim. The choice is yours.
Steve

does it really make a lot of sense putting hi-end speakers in roadsters? I mean the extra noise you have with any cabriolet takes away the need for having crisp sounds, no? And the door panels need mods also to prevent vibrating a lot during bass.

This made me decide to keep the standard ones, more than enough for me.

ps: Ted, headphones on speaker outlets?!! Gee, you must have really heavy-duty headphones! (ever heard of impedance?)

Dirk
still thinking of how to put rear speakers in an Mk1 F.
Dirk Vael


Echoing others... amp then speakers then head-unit - assuming tape is what you want.

Moving from tape to something else (CD, MD, MP3) will improve things lots.
A cool amp and top notch speakers cannot improve on a bad source.

I have a spare half-decent amp if you'd like to try it out Siok.
Would take 15 minutes to wire-up in a yee-haw sort of way. :-)

Paul.
Paul

>ps: Ted, headphones on speaker outlets?!! Gee, you must have really heavy-duty headphones! (ever heard of impedance?)

I've heard of it, but haven't a clue what it means! However the 'phones are just standard 'walkman' type - but they work very well and nothing has gone BANG yet.

BTW the front speakers are also on.

Ted
Ted Newman

Ok, new amp (Paul check your email), new speakers, keeping original MG head unit (still prefer the dinky panel :o) some of the other head units I have seen are so fiddly it's awful)

What about a CD stacker? Quite a few about so which one to get if one is not to break the bank?

has anyone heard of Longmills (www.longmill.com?)

Jody

Jody
----

Regarding the cd stacker do you mean a cd changer? If so then unfourtantly you can only buy the one designed
for that headunit from MG.

Longmill make "average" quality products, compare them to a Ford in the car world...

Just a small tip jody, whoever you get to put the amp in make sure theyre a reputable company as they will have to run wires from the bonnet to the boot and from the headunit to the boot, and last thing you want is your car's interior falling off afterwards!

Stefan
------

Well the empeg is brilliant! Having all your songs at
the touch of a button is nice. Its very well designed and built and would happily recomend it. I also use it with my home hi-fi (its a pull out) and comes with a home psu. If your ever in the Watford area your welcome to come and have a look. The best part is the display, they all work to the beat/frequency of the music, something to impress your friends...!

Matthew Warren

Matthew,

I am thinking of upgrading my stereo but am loathe to do it myself - do you have any experience of Hendon Car Audio or Autosound as regards the fitment of ICE? If so, would you recommend them?

If not, is anyone else able to recommend anyone in the London/Herts/Essex area?

Thanks

Martin
Martin

Jody,

the MG (philips) CD changer ,unless you buy it second hand, is as expensive as a new head unit + CD changer, if not even more expensive !
Its basically a standard Philips changer, but with special plugs and it costs at least 2 times the standard price.
MG CD changer = rip off !

IMO, fitting an amp with standard speakers is not recommended.
You'll get a much better sound with good quality 2-ways speakers (separate tweeters) and sound deadening material in the doors.
If you go for the amp route, choose a 3-4 ways, that will let 1 or 2 outputs free for a subwoofer behind the seat(s) : so you can cut bass frequencies from the door speakers (less "resonnance") and get a better and deeper bass response.
No need to put the amp in the boot : there's some space under the seats.

Re. ICE, Sarah (from Bristol) is the woman to speak with.
Strange that she hasn't contributed yet to this thread ...

Fabrice

Fabrice

>>What about a CD stacker? Quite a few about so which one to get if one is not to break the bank?<<

This is a problem- the Philips standard fit stereo is designed ONLY to work with the stacker available from Rover. >:o( I am sure an interface could be worked out to get compatibility with alternative units, but you'd need someone with Richard 'LED' Eaton's skills... and you won't get any technical wiring info from Philips either.

One other possibility- there are CD stakers available that can patch through to your head unit through a radio signal, and picked up on one of the FM frequencies... so effectively what you are doing is tuning into the stacker's signal to hear the sound. I think Tom had one of these on a previous car he owned. Says is sounded fine. Whether it is as good as a hard wired CD autochanger is altogether another point...

Rob
Robert Bell

Hi Martin

I have bought quite a lot from Autosound, very helpfull as long as you dont pick a time when their busy (sat. afternoon!). I know their installer as well
and he he has done some work on my old car and and I
was impressed.
Although u do have to book your car in a few weeks in advance. If your just replacing the headunit I suggest you give it a go yourself, very simple. If you want any more info on how then let me now.

Matt


Matthew Warren

Any make of CD changer can be used using a FM modulator and had one fitted on my last car and I was impressed, although quite pricey it did a good job.
I have the std Rover CD changer yes its is pricey but it keeps the std head unit and requires no extra controls unlike the FM modulator which had a separate display and remote control which in a convertible I was a bit worried of getting it stolon as I have a had whole systems stolen from the car before.

Tom
P305 DPB.
Tom Randell

how about :
1. standard MG headunit
2. change speakers on doors
3. install speakers on T-bar
4. + amp

would the standard MG headunit still be the limiting factor to achieving half decent sounds?
JOdy

I think that with that list of kit, you'll be more than impressed with the result.

I hope- 'coz that's my plan as well.

Rob
Robert Bell

Good choice Jody.
Choose if possible speakers for the doors with seperate tweeters, and put sound deadening material inside the doors while the speakers are swapped.
Re speakers in the T-Bar : ask specialists if it's not better to go for subwoofer(s) behind the seats. The advantage : you can use the rear speakers output of the head unit to plug a 4 channel amp (main speakers and sub) and later, if you buy a new head unit with 4 speakers outputs and pre-amp out, you'll have a pair of amplified outputs to plug speakers in the T-bar. Those speakers should not be too much powered, because one is close to your head and could cut the stereo image created from the main speakers (esp tweeters).

I don't think the standard head unit will be so limiting in that setup, unless you compare the sound quality of the cassette to a CD sound.
If you want a CD-changer, the MG one is so expensive that for the same price, you get a high end head unit + CD-changer from a renown brand.

Fabrice
Fabrice

On the advise of others on this BBS, I've installed rear speakers in the T-bar over the weekend and can say that it definitely does improve the sound image. Although, at over 160km with the top down, you'll barely hear the tweater highs over the engine (K&N filter), wind, & road noise!! At that point, you might as well install a mono AM radio...

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, DIY is pretty straight forward for installing T-bar speakers. I followed the Instructions on the FAQ for removing the T-bar as well as those given by fellow BBS contributor Paul. Instead of 10cmx15cm speakers recommended, I was limited to only 10cm round speakers (Kenwood KFC-1076 in the states) as none of the Japanese speaker makers sell 10x15 speakers with covers in the Japanese market. If anyone is interested, I have taken some digital pictures of the T-bar off as well as the final installation shots. As the T-bar has a slightly rounded profile, the top of the speaker grill is not flush and does stick out a bit. I've taken some T-bar material from the speaker cutouts to fill in the gap. Overall, I'd say it looks pretty professional. Cutting the speaker holes in the T-bar is pretty easy. Its just one big foam block with a vinyl skin. I used an electric drill to perforate the speaker hole outline, then used a small hacksaw along the drill holes (kind of like playing connect the dots). Also, as the speakers are surface mounted, the back of the speakers barely protrudes from the back of the T-bar. The space behind the T-bar makes for poor acoustics, so you lose a lot bass. Wonder if anyone has tried building an enclosed box to fully seal the back of the speakers without preventing access to the engine hatch.

I also highly recommend using Dynamat on the doors. It has completely eliminated all rattling and tighened the bass response. In fact, I've opted not to install a subwoofer (thought it would be overkill for the MGF)

I do have one question for those who installed Dynamat or any other material in the doors. What kind of adhesive did you use to reinstall the plastic sheet? Currently, I used duct tape, but wondering if I should use something else to ensure no water leakage.

My current ICE setup

Sony MD player (35w x 4 amp)
Alpine 16cm speakers (DDC-175C Japanese model) with separate tweeters installed on the doors
Dynamat installed on door panels.
Kenwood 10cm KFC-1076 in the T-bar

Future enhancements : possibly a 10CD Sony changer behind the drivers seat.
Mike

Has anybody hear the sounds from the new standard MG CD player installed in all Mark IIs? what output has it got?

As for sound deadening material for the doors, I thought I remember the chap from Unique saying you should lay it OVER the plastic in the door rather than under it or am I mistaken? Stephen was there, he might remember.
Jody

Hi All / Jody

Sarah typed up an article a little while ago about changing the ICE. I've put it on my web site http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gibney/mgf/home.htm for anyone that's interested. She has also listed tried and tested speaker combinations.

Stefan
Stefan Gibney

This thread was discussed between 15/11/1999 and 08/12/1999

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.