MG-Cars.com
MG MGF Technical Icon superchip fault BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
MG-Cars.net
Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
Recommendations
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG MGF Technical - Icon superchip fault
| Can anybody hellp me having fitted a superchip recently to my F i am now faced with looming possibilitie that my engine has blown anybody give me any advice and is the rumour about SP Performance true as this is where i got from |
| jan |
Hej Jan, Om möjligt kontakta mig, står i M.G.Car Club´s matrikel med reg. PSU 469. MVH, Carl Gustaf. |
| Carl |
| Sorry to hear that you are having problems Jan. Is it a head gasket failure? It appears that the rumours regarding SP are indeed true, sadly. However, you may want to contact the people who supplied the chip to SP to retail- a company by the name of Superchips. Goodluck. Rob |
| Robert Bell |
| Jan, As Rob said try Superchips direct: http://www.Superchips.co.uk |
| Mounir |
| Hi, I have been in touch with superchips, with regards the relationship between 'Blown' engines and their product. As i suspected, it would be very difficult for slight variations in ignition timing to do any damage unless it has been badly set up and been running for a long period in this way. In any case you would be suffering bad pinking and surely know that something was wrong long before any damage would occur. I'm sure it's easy for Rover to blame someone elses parts for a major failure. I have given the BBS details to Matt at Superchips and expect his input. Watch this space! |
| Nick |
| Hey Nick, can you ask Matt where the Superchips fax is that SP promised me 3 weeks ago. SP said the fax might be 'postive' for me (?). SP also said that ICON would take back my chip since none of their chips seem to work on my VVC (they said the same chips were tested on other VVCs and worked all fine) It is normal procedure of warranty: if you buy something and it doesn't work you can give it back & be reimbursed for it. I hope ICON would be willing to pay back my chip since it's useless for me. (not forgetting my engine blew up) I once sent a memo to Superchips about this a long time ago (1 year or what) but they never replied to it... Dirk |
| Dirk Vael |
| >>As i suspected, it would be very difficult for slight variations in ignition timing to do any damage unless it has been badly set up and been running for a long period in this way. In any case you would be suffering bad pinking and surely know that something was wrong long before any damage would occur<< This isn't necessarily true. If the ignition is too advanced at low rpm then you will hear pinking (assuming you are reasonably savvy). But if it's too advanced at high rpm then you won't hear it, and at full load holes can be burnt in pistons in minutes or less. These strap-on devices have the ability to modify ignition timing at any of the rpm/load sites in their map. The manufacturers (Rover in this case) spend millions on mapping engines, but they do allow a good margin of safety with ignition advance to cater for a wide range of running conditions & fuel grades. Your aftermarket chip-tuner will add ignition advance at places in the map where this gains power - this reduces your safety margin. Throw in a flat-out blast down the motorway on a hot day with a below-par tank of fuel and you can be in meltdown territory without knowing that anything is wrong until it's way too late. Mike |
| Mike Bees |
| We have seen several HGF's happening on bog standard F's. I am not surprised that it happens to chipped engines too. |
| Fabrice |
| What Mike has said is quite true. It does occasionally affect production engines and an example was the Jag XJ40 series with the 3.6 litre engine. A very minor mapping mismatch in respect of timing caused a series of neat 'bullet' like holes to appear in the top of number 6 piston usually. Three engines from our 2 cars of the affected period suffered in this way. The failure was sudden, without warning or any alteration in the sound or response of the engine, just droped a cylinder. As I say this was related to a very small timing error (I was at the time liasing direct with Jag development over another project so had an excellent insight) so I am always wary of aftermarket ignition changes done in the name of extra performance. I always remember a conversation with a senior Lucas engineer responsible for mapping a number of well known performance models. He simply said, "Yes more advance will give slightly more power, but how long do you want your engine to last?" I asked, "How much power?", he replies, "How long do you want the engine to last?" The message was as clear as day to me!!! Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| Hi, I got the chip about 1 month ago and I have had problems since then. First , the diagram showed wrong connections instructions (wrong 12v ecu pin). Then after locating the right 12v pin, there was an improve in performance after 4000rpm, but ... between 2500 and 3500 rpm , the engine "chocked" as if one plug was burnt. I'm still waitting for superchip reply on this one. I have removed the icon for now till i'll know exectly what's going on. Anyone had similar problems ? RS. |
| Ron |
| yep, I had the same with the blue chip it chocked only at 3750, with the grey one it chocked on various rpm. NEVER got a response from ICON, SP said it was only my car having this problem... HELLO ICON? CAN I GET MY MONEY BACK??? |
| Dirk Vael |
| Hi, I read that you 'received' your Icon chip and subsequently fitted it yourselves? As i found with mine, it will never work properly unless programmed by an official 'Superchips Modem Dealer' or by Superchips themselves. This is not the sort of product which you can expect to work correctly simply by purchasing mail order and bolting it on yourself. The same can be said for any ECU upgrade. See notes in Technical. Nick (probably the only happy ICON user after 10,000 miles) |
| Nick |
| mine was installed by SP on my VVC, I never touched it myself!! But still it didn't work as advertised... So? Would they perhaps consider taking it back? (I hope!) |
| Dirk Vael |
| FAO Nick >probably the only happy ICON user after 10,000 miles So what could we expect from an ICON on an F when it works fine? And is yours an MPi or a VVC? Cheers, Erik |
| Erik |
| FAO Erik I run an MPi, as stated earlier the improvement is about 12Bhp at peak rpm of 5800 with the ICON. and power is smooth from tickover to 7000 rpm. However, after having exhaust, K&N and piper cams i had to get the ICON reprogrammed by superchips, now we are at about 150-155 Bhp peak. measured at the wheels 130 Bhp. I have been running this setup for about 10 months with no problems. Nick |
| Nick |
All, My VVC engine was chipped in the summer by an authorized superchips dealer. The Icon race was pre-programmed by Superchips. The engine became very lumpy between 2500 and 3750rpm. After this fast and smooth. The dealer made several attempts to reprogram the chip using a laptop, but could not remove the lumpiness. Felt like a blocked fuel line under hard acceleration. 3 Weeks later, bang. Blown engine. Classic signs of pre-ignition in the cylinder chamber. Again, Superchips said never heard of this problem. loads of them out there and no-one else with a problem. well reading this group proves otherwise. BEWARE |
| Dave |
Hi all, have posted this before, don´t want to be a pain in the a.. but only echo what some allready have said + that " if You have a decent dealer relation and he in his turn a competent technican who knows about "Test-Book " procedures he (if allowed into "Advanced Toolbox") can adjust timing in a safe way within MEMS limited parameters. Be prepaired to run on RON 98 , "Green 98" or whatever called in resp. countries ". Regards, Carl. |
| Carl |
| I think this Superchips remark "we never heard of any problems except you" only shows they are bullsh*tting all of us with problems. I am still waiting for a reply of them about my VVC blowup. Guess I'll be waiting eternally. |
| Dirk Vael |
| I think this Superchips remark "we never heard of any problems except you" only shows they are bullsh*tting all of us with problems. I am still waiting for a reply of them about my VVC blowup. Guess I'll be waiting eternally. |
| Dirk Vael |
| I think this Superchips remark "we never heard of any problems except you" only shows they are bullsh*tting all of us with problems. I am still waiting for a reply of them about my VVC blowup. Guess I'll be waiting eternally. |
| Dirk Vael |
| Is there a pattern appearing here? From this small sample, it would appear that ICON works well with the 1.8MPi, but not the VVC. (I know of at least one other happy 1.8i owner with an ICON). Could this be related to the fact that the VVC has a different MEMS to the 1.8i? I would guess that Superchips tested their chip only on the 1.8i, and then presumed that it would work the same on the VVC. By developing the chip of the non-VVC, they opened up a wider audience- from those with Rover products (small Rovers, MGF) to other specialist marques such as Caterham and Lotus... The assumption that their chip would work on both [presuming that they didn't check the VVC installation] is clearly (to us) an error. More detective work to be done, methinks. Rob |
| Robert Bell |
| All 4 ICON chips I had had all specification MGF 'VVC', so I guess they must make a differenc... Hall of Shame: all 3 with Icon had HGF/engine blowup... hmmmm |
| Dirk Vael |
| There is a difference between the 1.8i Icon and the vvc Icon. (Another wire connection to the ECU - the one controling the min. rpm where the vvc kicks in). But I guess Carl and Rob got the point. The reason it works better on the 1.8i and not the vvc, is that the "safe" margin for avg. timing and spark is better (allowing wider mistake range) at the 1.8i and the vvc MEMS pushes close to the "safety envelope" limits. So improving it by the Icon means gambling on the avg heat produced by the plug. And as we all see ... it doesn't work . I got the MEMS elctrical diagram and I connected it with the MGF VVC MEMS Analysis Prog. and it shows that it works , BUT every now and then produces brighter spark then it should , this means trouble on a long run (damaged pistons). So ... I have decided accepting the fact that I long the money on a useless chip and I am not going to fit it again (it's better then the potential damage cost). And let's face it , we want more power and we don't want to spent too much money on it , and if we won't "play" with the engine itself (Manifold, Pistons etc) there is not much we can improve in that car (power). I could really use some extra 50 BHP ... anyone got some BHP to spare ...? RS. |
| Ron |
| Hi all, Even though i have been giving testimony to the benfits of the ICON i have been compelled to the fact that it might be slightly dodgy to run the unit. This weekend i shall bypass it and see how the engine responds with all the other go faster bits. It may be that she runs just as well without it, it may not. I'll let you know! Nick |
| Nick |
Hi all, Nick , make that in total a rather long run with some engine stops - MEMS and esp. MEMS-2J on V V C is a slow learner. Map changing takes a looong time ! Regards , Carl. |
| Carl |
This thread was discussed between 18/11/1999 and 30/11/1999
MG MGF Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.