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MG MGF Technical - ITG Filter boyz ...
| Geezers, I need to know what is involved in fitting. I'm dumping the K&N ... that low down torque is missing far too much and as for the noise well the Janspeed exhaust is more than ample. Gaz |
| Gaz |
| Hi Gaz, I'v had my ITG roversport air filter over 3 years. The filter just bolts onto the throttle body and points down where the old air filter box was. I don't think any one has done a test between a ITG and a K&N filter ? Richard.[VVC] |
| Richard |
| Hi Richard The filter that you have is not the one that Gaz wants to buy... yours is a filter on the end of an induction tube, bent at 90 degrees and points downward towards the resonance box. The filter that Gaz refers to is an enclosed filter box- usually made of either glass or carbon fibre, and costs several times more than yours did! Yours is a good filter system. In fact I did want to get hold of one of these, but ITG refused the test- there you go. In fact the construction and positioning is identical to the Ramair filter we tested, so similar results should be achieved with this system. Gaz, as you know, I haven't fitted this myself, but I have studied a couple of cars now with this system fitted. Fitting one after having had a K&N should be straightforward. The filter box is usually bolted to the standard airfilter airbox bracket, where a flexible pipe connects the airbox to the throttle body. The intake trumpet is angled downward, and you have the option to run a duct from the nearside air vent to the intake trumpet. Hopefully that is pretty clear... shouldn't tax you that much Gaz. Let us know how you fitted it in the end! Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| Interesting ... http://www.roverbrm.co.uk/air_filter.htm Gaz |
| Gaz |
| From ITG Thank you for your enquiry. The AB65KM has a retail price of £265.00 + VAT. It can be purchased from ourselves by cheque or through PTP on 01455 622229 by Credit Card. If you e-mail me your details I could post you out some information on the kit. ... little expensive. Did anyone get it cheaper anywhere else ? Gaz |
| Gaz |
| Gaz, Mine came 2nd hand from one of Techspeeds customers that had moved up to a 190bhp engine in his F ! Might be worth asking Roy if he can keep an eye open for a similar deal. Dave R573 CBW |
| Dave |
| Dave, Sorry off topic and totally unrelated.... I went to Priests the other week to make enquries about a drive in a Trophy, Kevin B. tells me they should have a demonstrater in a couple of weeks. I mentioned to him that I'd recently met you and reminded him that you'd been to see him for a test drive in the Trophy as well - he *should* be giving each of us a call in a couple of weeks to arrange a test drive. ;-) |
| Paul Lathwell |
| Paul, Well done. Kevin said it would be a couple of weeks last time I asked! Still, the more he gets nagged the more chance of it happening. Thanks. Dave |
| Dave |
| Gaz, Would you be interested in selling your K&N when you get the ITG, if so can I have first refusal. regards Chris |
| Chris Catchpole |
| Mention of the Trophy is not as far off the mark as first seems. I haven't done a full line up yet but so far the only engine spec differences I can find in the parts used relate to a different air box and pipes, different exhaust downpipe and rear system. The ex manifold and cat are the same as standard cars. IOW as I have suggested before only the external parts have been tinkered with to get the 160PS spec, in much the same way as we have seen with our well established air filter and exhaust tests!!! The ITG system is very carefully desinged and if initial feedback is confirmed on the rollers it should be worth not only a little more power than the K&N, but more importantly more torque. It would be an interesting excercise to have a Trophy, and test it with a K&N and then an ITG system. I fancy the ITG wouyld sit head and shoulders above, which it needs to in view of the cost. Rog |
| Roger Parker |
| I reckon the biggest change with the Trophy is with the air box, with now completely avoids the resonance box, having a 'trumpet' pointing down over the rear of the rear subframe (ie the same air intake location used by standard cars). This cuts down dramatically the length of the intake tract. The other differences don't seem to amount to much... :o/ The RR data compiled in the http://www.roverbrm.co.uk/air_filter.htm page is an interesting contrast to what we found in the MGF- and probably is a simple function of intake length. The Rover BRM has a nice short cold air intake to the radiator grille, whilst the standard MGF is far far longer. Shorten it, and you seem to get big power gains- almost irrespective of the type of filter used. This maybe why MGR claim 15 bhp from a relatively simple air box modification... Oh, BTW, 265 quid is a good price for an ITG filter kit- unfortunately. :o( IMO you are better off building yourself an airbox around the K&N filter Gaz... Rob PS Dave is a lucky .... for getting his ITG filter so cheap! LOL ;o) |
| Rob Bell |
| Only thing i can add is that the BRM site is incorret in so far as the ITG filter was never tested. My one was pencelled in when ITG refused to participate, but Scarlet suffered her (famous!) engine failure and was away being cared for at the time. Parralells have been drawn against the Ramair filter which is of a similar design, but without testing one we shall never know for sure... Lastly, the enclosed airbox ITG filter has also yet to be independantly tested. SF |
| Scarlet Fever |
| >> IMO you are better off building yourself an airbox around the K&N filter Gaz... Think you're right Rob ... can't really justify £310 on a new filter. Sorry Chris looks like I'll be keeping the K&N for now. Gaz |
| Gaz |
| >I reckon the biggest change with the Trophy is with the air box, with now completely avoids the resonance box, having a 'trumpet' pointing down over the rear of the rear subframe (ie the same air intake location used by standard cars). I'm sorry for breaking in. Reported this product change already the other week from a CURRENT MY2001 model. (VVC in this case) I guess its in already from VIN 1D522573 upwards since January 2001. As Rob mentioned, see here. The new filterbox is also much wider: (far below only 2 pictures) http://www.mgf-net.de/airfilter/index.htm Dieter |
| Dieter Koennecke |
| I have a couple more pictures of the Trophy filter box too Dieter... will post when I get a chance. Following on from what Andy says, we had a damaged ITG foam filter handy- which we didn't test for obvious reasons. But the design and construction were identical to the Ramair cone filter. Given that the Ramair and K&N had identical power outputs, there is little doubt in my mind that the ITG (exposed) cone filter would perform any worse or any better than a K&N 57i. A cone filter in a decent airbox enclosure is an all together different beastie... I have put in a very primitive heat shield around my K&N, and to my amazement, it actually makes a difference to the torque. Now, if only I could make up a nice box... Anyone know someone who makes fibre glass mouldings? |
| Rob Bell |
| >Anyone know someone who makes fibre glass mouldings< They are very simple to make, but best done in the open air otherwise you might just think you can fly! Seriously I have done miles of the things making simple structures for balcony flower boxes - used to get the materials from a boat yard in Devon, they used to advertise in the Exchange and Mart. Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Rob, have you put a picture of your heatshield on your website yet ? cheers, Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Have to agree with Ted that making thinks in Fibreglass is straight forward if a tad smelly. Halfords used to sell the stuff to fill in rust holes and the product name Isopan springs to mind. Not sure if they still sell it as my days of driving rust buckets are (fortunately!) a long way off. Go for the fibreglass cloth rather that the chopped matt as this is easier to work and produces a lighter structure. The stuff sold in Halfords used to be polyester (?) resin based. This had the advantage of being cheap but the eventual item was brittle. Not a great problem when filling in a car hole but a bit more of an issue when building an air box. Epoxy resin prodices a more flexible product and does not smell nearly so bad while "curing". It is however more expensive and harder to get. This is (was?) used big time by the toy aeroplane boys so should be available from a shops selling flying models. Good luck Patrick |
| Patrick |
| Here are the figures from ITG ... Standard 1999 1.8 MPi (mileage not available) Revs BHP (std) BHP (with ITG) 6500 98.9 106.0 6000 109.7 115.7 5500 104.2 118.3 5000 102.2 109.1 4500 98.6 101.2 4000 81.6 91.1 3500 68.3 80.9 3000 66.6 69.5 2500 56.1 55.3 2000 39.7 43.5 Points to note ... On the std setup the weakspot appears to be the 3-3.5K rev range. The rate of change of BHP is so little its quite alarming. There is also another dip around the 5-5.5K mark. If I'm reading the data right on the std car max torgue occurs in the 3.5-4.5K range whilst with the ITG its in the 3-4K. On the std car max BHP is reached at 6K whilst the with the ITG at 5.5K The ITG helps smooth the dips found on the std car but its worth noting that at 3K and again at 4.5K both are evenly matched. In fact up until the 3K mark both setups are more or less the same. Rob do you have any figures to compare with the K&N ? NOTE: ITG have made corrections to the data to allow for discrepancies between bhp values measured at the flywheel as opposed to those measured on the rolling road (I'll mention these later). Gaz |
| Gaz |
| Fibre glass moulding recipe ... http://www.50plusnews.net/Basic_Fibre_Glass_Moulding/CP_Basic_Fibre_Glass_Moulding.htm and for sourcing your ingredients ... http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/ Gaz |
| Gaz |
| >>have you put a picture of your heatshield on your website yet ?<< Hi Fabrice, yes I have- it's almost too embarrising!!! See what I mean at http://www.mgf.4mg.com/cgi-bin/framed/1893/air_filter_heat_shield.htm Gaz, best pictures comparing all cones to the standard element found at: http://www.mgf.4mg.com/18mpi_cone.htm Figures are for the K&N (est at flywheel on 1997 1.8 MPi- 20k miles on clock- Richard Eaton's car): .rpm...bhp 6500---110 6000---114 5750---116 5500---115 5000---110 4500---102 4000----90 3500----75 3250----68 3000----67 2750----63 2500----58 Interestingly, despite different conditions, cars, rolling road, etc. the figures for the standard filters are pretty much identical (within a bhp or two) so as to be interchangeable for the purposes of this discussion. Thanks for the useful web URLs on the glass fibre boxes. I don't have the facilities for doing this myself (no garden/ garage etc)- but I have a good idea for the design, so does anyone feel like having a go at making a fibreglass box? Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| Rob Send me the details of the box I will have a look at it! Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Okay Ted. What I'll do is make some measures of the available space, but what I could do is fax you a sketch of the design. It'd be in two halves (symetrical) so that the filter would still be accessible, and be 'easier' to mould (I say easier, but as I know next to nothing about what is involved, what do I know!) Cheers Rob (Could you forward me your fax number Ted, I've lost it I am afraid) |
| Rob Bell |
| Rob 020 7493 0326 Ted |
| Ted Newman |
This thread was discussed between 25/05/2001 and 30/05/2001
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